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Posted by koutsie 10/22/2024

Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status(lwn.net)
196 points | 263 commentspage 2
nimbius 10/23/2024|
Sounds like overreach by a company that is heavily invested in Linux as a base for its products, and is having a difficult time with US trade regulations.

Its pandering. I hope these developers petition to be added back.

mlindner 10/25/2024||
Have to say that a lot of hacker news contributors really show their colors around events like this. This is a completely good thing to do and well past due.
rat_on_the_run 10/24/2024||
I really wish that we have an operating system that's not controlled by a U.S. person.
fsflover 10/26/2024||
Here you go: https://qubes-os.org.
0x142857 10/24/2024||
Welcome to using a Chinese OS lol
huyage 10/24/2024|||
Harmony on mobile is pretty sweet.
zhdi 10/24/2024|||
So what, now you can directly watched by CCP?
4bpp 10/24/2024||
Why should this be a problem for anyone outside of China? It's only when the same people can read your messages and send dudes with guns to your doorstep if they don't like what they see that things actually get dangerous.
fragmede 10/24/2024||
FBI makes arrests over alleged secret Chinese 'police stations' in New York

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65305415.amp

4bpp 10/24/2024||
That's interesting, but these seem like they are just a slightly more structured form of the ways in which the CCP has been known to keep track of their own nationals abroad for many years. Not only is there no evidence or reason to expect that they would interact with people who are not PRC nationals, they presumably don't have guns and certainly have no actual policing powers either. If these "Chinese police stations" were to dispatch someone to my door, I could just call the actual police to have them removed. Meanwhile, I doubt I could call the "Chinese police stations" to protect me from the police of the country I live in, if they were to act upon a friendly request from the US like the Swedes and British did with Assange or the New Zealanders did with Kim Dotcom.
ChrisArchitect 10/23/2024||
Earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41917357
worstspotgain 10/23/2024||
How convoluted, insidious, and camouflaged can a hidden backdoor or exploitable intentional defect be?

If hacking or subversion is possible, it has been tried and will be again. If anyone is going to try it, chances are Putin's people will.

It's by far the sneakiest, most advanced cheating and infiltration apparatus humanity has ever known. It inherited a large "meddling war chest" from the Soviet Union, then invested heavily into it for 25 years. The Internet increased its opportunities a million-fold. Its semitransparent tentacles are now embedded into nearly every consequential organization on the planet.

Consider the xz episode as a baseline. It was fairly sneaky, but it was introduced by a newcomer to the project and affected mostly existing code. A more elaborate exploit might be submitted with a new feature by an established maintainer.

leoh 10/23/2024||
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/6e90b675cf942e50c70...
yeputons 10/23/2024|
For those confused: GitHub has comments for commits, and some are piling up for this particular Linux kernel mirror.
trebligdivad 10/23/2024||
This could get messy in other projects, depending where this rule came from. I know there are .ru maintainers in at least one other ; and what about distros?
surfer2 10/27/2024||
It is wrong - plain and simple. It is no different to racism. As for Linus comments, it is really surprising how many proper idiots working in IT industry. It was not like that before.. Not long ago, simply reading Linux magazine was considered a terrorism.
fancyfredbot 10/22/2024||
Not sure this is really what anyone had in mind when sanctioning Russia? The maintainers probably aren't pleased but can't see a direct route from there to Putin's opinion of the war in Ukraine.
TZubiri 10/23/2024||
Probably not sanctions, but national security concerns.

The former aims to punish and worsen the situation of the other country, the latter aims to reduce the attack vector and improve the situation of the US.

omgtehlion 10/23/2024|||
If I were a KGB (FSB) agent with a task to undermine US infrastructure with my commits in Linux kernel, using my real russian name and .ru TLD would be the last thing to do.
consteval 10/23/2024||
Sure, but if I were an agency tasked with protecting US from security threats, I would begin with the lowest hanging fruit.

Yes, probably the guy who holds up the number "3" using his thumb, index, and middle finger shouldn't be allowed in the Super Secret Vault. But the dude right behind him who has "I'm Russian" tattooed on his forehead shouldn't be allowed in either, and he's a bit easier to spot.

matrix2003 10/23/2024|||
It’s pretty evident at this point that any Russian citizen in Russia or with family in Russia can be coerced, and it’s also pretty clear that Putin specifically does not have good intentions.

There are lots of good people there. It’s too bad there is a crazy person at the helm.

ogurechny 10/23/2024|||
It is evident everyone CAN be coerced. Not that everyone WILL BE, because some people still think of themselves as people, not some “honest citizens” or “economic agents”.

It is also evident that someone quite far from Russia HAS ALREADY BEEN coerced to make that unannounced change, but you try really hard to look the other way. “Those Linux nerds” were shown who's the boss in the room when it comes to “important matters”. Don't you feel that the form of that change itself is a sign of silent disobedience, and you are expected to participate in public outcry forcing further developments instead of just bending over willingly?

It is totally possible that there was some direct intelligence that those accounts can be used in some clandestine operation in the future, probably without even asking some of the owners. After all, spies are #1 information source to other spies, they run the global spectacle together. Still, accepting “this is secret” as an excuse, you are already accepting defeat.

Wytwwww 10/23/2024||
The cost/risk to the Russian government of coercing someone to do anything is approximately zero. Not so much in the US/etc., the risk of negative consequences is not insignificant?

> were shown who's the boss in the room when it comes to “important matters”.

Or Linus just doesn't like Russia(ns)? Why is there a need for some conspiracy?

weaksauce 10/23/2024||||
all you have to look at is the number of russian oligarchs being defenstrated since the invasion began to know that if it served russian aims to inject malware into the kernel somehow via their maintainers it would probably be tried. the maintainers are probably not oligarch level rich so imagine the pressure on them if needed.
cresynthesis 10/23/2024|||
if you believe Russian government would coerce its own citizens, why do you not believe they would coerce foreigners? they have a world class intelligence agency that routinely assassinates regime enemies in foreign countries after all, so why should it be any harder for them?
lawn 10/22/2024|||
"Putins opinion on the war he started" undersells the issue that Russia has actively been undermining, killing, and sabotaging in western countries.
homebrewer 10/23/2024|||
[flagged]
sobellian 10/23/2024|||
Well, what do you propose? We're obviously far past the point of diplomacy. The sanctions are not designed to change hearts and minds. They're designed to make Russia's war efforts more difficult. The sorry state of affairs is that Russia's government has made itself a huge problem and there are no good solutions.
4bpp 10/24/2024||
I doubt this particular move will complicate Russia's war efforts in any appreciable way. There is no non-fanciful way in which the named, well-established and closely watched kernel maintainers could have leveraged their status for it, and the tech scene has been one of the remaining bastions of pro-Western sentiment in Russian society. How many young programmers will be disenchanted with the West after hearing of this, and finally relent and answer their government's call to go write software for military drones or whatever?
sobellian 10/24/2024||
Well, this comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41932923) seems to indicate that Russian military industrial companies seem to get some use out of contributing to the kernel. As to your question, I cannot answer it to any degree of accuracy and I believe you cannot either.
Wytwwww 10/23/2024|||
Because appeasement generally always works out long-term?
elzbardico 10/23/2024||||
[flagged]
FredPret 10/23/2024||
If America isn’t perfect, does that mean its enemies must be? Surely you don’t live in so simple a world?

Anyway, us encroaching on Russian interests (debatable) is hardly an excuse for them to go blowing up a country full of innovent civilians.

elzbardico 10/23/2024||
[flagged]
Wytwwww 10/23/2024|||
[flagged]
elzbardico 10/30/2024||
> A underdeveloped second rate power just can't afford it... If Russia could've done what US did in Iraq they certainly would've.

Jesus. the arrogance.

lawn 10/23/2024|||
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protomolecule 10/23/2024||
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lawn 10/23/2024|||
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protomolecule 10/23/2024||
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Wytwwww 10/23/2024||
That certainly absolves Sadam of the tens of thousands of murders committed by his government. That's a perfectly reasonable and sane take.

Hitler himself faced quite a few false accusations (e.g. even for crimes actually committed by the Soviets). Certainly that would mean that he did nothing wrong according to a troll like yourself?

protomolecule 10/24/2024||
>That certainly absolves

That was a strawman argument.

Wytwwww 10/25/2024||
Really how so? Is that not what you were implying? Or what was your point exactly? Besides the claim that Sadam being not guilty of some small subset accusations targeting him somehow changes anything?
protomolecule 10/26/2024||
Just that atrocity propaganda is the modus operandi of the US and its protégés. We see it again and again.
Wytwwww 10/27/2024||
Was it? The were perfectly fine with ignoring the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed by Saddam's government during the revolt they instigated in 1991 because they didn't want to get involved or remove him from power at the time.

Even in 2003 that wasn't anywhere close to being the primary reason.

> We see it again and again.

That doesn't change those facts...

Are you saying that Saddam didn't commit the atrocities that he did because US government said he did?

Wytwwww 10/23/2024|||
[flagged]
protomolecule 10/24/2024||
>objectively

You are funny.

Wytwwww 10/25/2024||
Well if it quacks like duck? Then what is it..

Obviously I'm talking more about Fascist Italy than Germany. Both because of general ideology and military performance. Of course unlike in Italy's case there is no Nazi Germany to bail them out...

codr7 10/23/2024|||
[flagged]
drivingmenuts 10/23/2024|||
Wait ... Western countries killing in Russia? What?! As part of the Cold War, sure, but that's the nature spying; we do it, they do it, everybody does it. Seems like you're implying armed forces level killing in Russia, though. Care to explain that?
codr7 10/23/2024||
[flagged]
Spooky23 10/23/2024||||
Let the Russians banish western developers from working on Russian projects.
rvnx 10/23/2024||
It's already the case, if you are living in a country officially listed as "hostile to Russia" (or "enemy") it's very difficult to business there. That's why McDonald's left for example.
codr7 10/23/2024||
And again, the same goes for the US.
budududuroiu 10/23/2024|||
So?
codr7 10/23/2024||
So pointing fingers and demonizing isn't very constructive.
type0 10/23/2024||
> The maintainers probably aren't pleased but can't see a direct route from there to Putin's opinion of the war in Ukraine.

Then they should be reminded that their military is actively using Linux to kill Ukrainian civilians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astra_Linux

fuzzbazz 10/23/2024|
Alternative title: Nobody with an email ending in .ru left in the MANTAINERS file.
yeputons 10/23/2024|
That would be a nice explanation, but some people with @gmail.com were also removed from the list.
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