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Posted by rustyparkour 10/23/2024

Huawei makes divorce from Android official with HarmonyOS NEXT launch(www.theregister.com)
137 points | 144 commentspage 2
p0w3n3d 10/23/2024|
> Huawei makes divorce from Android official

What do I read as a non-native speaker?

> Now you can divorce easily using Android phone from Huawei

fader 10/23/2024||
"Divorce" here means "separate entirely". So

> Huawei makes divorce from Android official means "Huawei has officially separated from Android and will no longer be using it in any way".

p0w3n3d 10/24/2024||
yeah, later I understood, but after a third or fourth reading...
amelius 10/23/2024||
The spyware in Chinese phones can make divorce easier, yes.
Ygg2 10/23/2024||
As opposed to US spyware?
nashashmi 10/23/2024|||
No such thing. Instead we have corporate America spyware. And America using court power to access corporate spyware data.

You see this way America never gets spyware status. Neither does America get powerful enough that its backers become afraid of America.

mrguyorama 10/23/2024||
>And America using court power to access corporate spyware data.

No, America doesn't need the courts to access the data from the corporations because the corporations just sell it to law enforcement.

Every single American company that touches computers has an enthusiastic side hustle as a snitch.

nashashmi 10/23/2024||
Being a snitch is a good thing because if you do a crime using their services, then you lose the right to privacy. Blanket surrender of data is not.
dartos 10/23/2024|||
Yeah well if you’re in the US you can’t really dodge US spyware, but you can dodge Chinese spyware.

Carve out your sovereignty where you can, yknow?

okasaki 10/23/2024||
If you're in the US you should be dodging US spyware not Chinese spyware, since you're living under US power and laws.
dartos 10/23/2024||
Why not both? I don’t want china knowing about me any more than I want the US knowing about.

It’s harder to dodge US spying when every other traffic light has network connected cameras on them… and I pay taxes… there’s no dodging it.

It’s much easier to not buy Chinese spyware phones.

okasaki 10/23/2024||
How many laws does the US have, and are you 100% sure you haven't broken any ever?
DeathArrow 10/23/2024||
The os seems to be kind of open source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenHarmony
markus_zhang 10/23/2024|
From my understanding OpenHarmony is different from Harmony NEXT. The later is proprietary.
Philpax 10/23/2024||
I believe Harmony NEXT is built on top of OpenHarmony?
0xCAP 10/23/2024||
Very interesting wikipedia info:

Written in: C, C++, JavaScript, ArkTS, Cangjie,[1] Rust, Assembly language and others

082349872349872 10/23/2024|
https://developer.huawei.com/consumer/cn/cangjie/ (many alternative natural languages available in the dropdown; none of the ones I tried currently map) Looks algolish.

EDIT: according to https://blog.csdn.net/qiushi_1990/article/details/140528431 from 19.07.2024 those are the languages supported for writing apps, not necessarily the implementation language(s) for the μk?

> - 多语言开发支持 支持多种语言开发 如ArkTS和C/C++ 进一步提升了应用性能。

EDIT2: https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/鸿蒙星河版 lists C,C++,Java

082349872349872 10/24/2024||
From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41934156 :

> The core kernel of HM is implemented primarily in a confined subset of C, consisting of 90k lines of code (LoC), which includes the basic functionalities. All other OS services are decoupled and can be deployed individually, totaling over 1 million LoC. The HM’s build system can assemble the OS services based on detailed configurations specified for various scenarios, such as placing OS services in different isolation classes or coalescing some OS services.

sub7 10/23/2024||
Hate to see this but Chinese phones have been better than US phones for almost half a decade now.

They may have started with stolen IP, but they're actually just ahead now - thinner, faster, lighter, better.

This applies to hardware, but their software isn't bad either - 15 years in most phone OS are kind of the same shit with only minor differences.

But sure Google, Apple, Microsoft keep trying to sell us shitty services for your balance sheet and ignoring what got you dominant i.e. building great products.

methuselah_in 10/23/2024||
Also before they have something that's code was readable and people can see what the hell backdoors they have put. Now it's home run for surveillance
vachina 10/23/2024||
At least now I can choose who to spy on me.
bogwog 10/23/2024||
You mean that now you can choose who to give your data to for free.

Everyone is spying on you.

vachina 10/23/2024||
No, instead of Five Eyes I’ve only One Eye on me.
jajko 10/23/2024|||
I'd say that if you were worried before that on Chinese phones running Android there is something malicious but having some open source variant somewhere was protecting you somehow... you weren't paying much attention in this space for last decade+
peoplefromibiza 10/23/2024||
exactly how we can read the MacOS, Windows and all the Google apps code that are bundled with virtually every Android phone, right?
ChocolateGod 10/23/2024|||
If you live in the west and criticise your government, nothing happens. If you live in China and criticise your government, even in private, you can go missing or end up in a camp
snapcaster 10/23/2024|||
This is very over simplified and glossing over a huge amount of political repression that happens in the west just because it's more sophisticated. Don't fool yourself into thinking you're free because you're not in China. You would realize this the second you go against any powerful interests
peoplefromibiza 10/25/2024||||
Nice try

But I don't live in China

Edit: anyway it's a false premise, China has 1.4 billion people living there, do you really think 1.4 billion people do not criticize ever the government? USA has the highest rate of incarceration per capita in the World, there a say that goes "the biggest prize a journalist can win it's not the Pulitzer, it's being killed by the CIA" the DoD is the largest emplyer in the world, NSA has the largest budget in the world, I do not believe it's all spent in defense (DoD used to be named department of war) and oversimplification doesn't really explain things it only keeps stereotypes alive IMO.

FooBarWidget 10/23/2024||||
Try telling that to all those people punished for protesting against Gaza genocide. Not to mention Julian Assange.
bsaul 10/23/2024|||
Still nothing compared to china. But nice try.
FooBarWidget 10/23/2024||
What? Somehow people in the west getting arrested for protesting against genocide, is acceptable/redeemable just because another country is presumably worse??? Do you actually care about freedom/human rights at all or are you just abusing those concepts to feel superior relative to other countries and to play petty tribal us-vs-them politics?
amanaplanacanal 10/23/2024|||
Usually not arrested for protesting. It usually for trespassing or vandalisation or something else. Or sometimes something stupid like blocking traffic
FooBarWidget 10/23/2024||
When $NON_WESTERN_COUNTRY arrests people for, let's say, "picking quarrels", people here usually see that as just an excuse for cracking down on activities that go against government interests. But when western countries do the same, people take those excuses at face value???
bsaul 10/23/2024|||
didn't say it was ok to arrest people protesting. Just that it's nothing comparable with non-democratic countries like china or russia. You can protest in front of the white house. Just don't try that in moscow or beijing.
FooBarWidget 10/23/2024||
You can do stuff in front of the White House as long as you're a nobody and it doesn't actually threathen powerful interests. How many of these protests where nobody was arrested, actually resulted in change? What's the point of protesting if nothing ever changes? Thousands of children have already been killed in Gaza, but we can protest in front of the White House while the killing continues, and that makes us better than $OTHERCOUNTRY. Why are you content with a circus like that? What's even the point of comparing with $OTHERCOUNTRY if you don't have effective power to change for the better at home? Shouldn't we set higher standards for ourselves?

I think it's really, really weird that some people care more about how bad $OTHER is than problems at home.

bsaul 10/24/2024||
i think a wide majority of americans are perfectly fine with the way israel responded after oct 7, and that is why the US policy doesn't change.

I'm happy a handful of people protesting can't impact a policy, that would be anti-democratic.

ChocolateGod 10/23/2024|||
Julian Assange was wanted for publishing confidential documents, not speaking out against the government.
FooBarWidget 10/23/2024||
Yes, publishing confidential documents that expose government crimes, including war crimes. On the one hand, people argue for things like free speech and human rights, but on the other hand, the same people play petty semantics games to cover up their own society's shortcomings. Are you truly a supporter of free speech and human rights, or are you just anti-$OTHER_GROUP? Behavior like this are actively harmful to the ideals of free speech and human rights.
tzs 10/24/2024||
The documents Assange published also included lots of information on civilians in places like Afghanistan who had worked against groups like the Taliban. That put those people at risk of retaliation.

It's not really very pro human rights to go around doxing the people who are working for human rights in those places. There was nothing in the government crimes or alleged crimes in the documents that needed to be released before the documents had been thoroughly reviewed and the information on people not involved redacted.

ChocolateGod 10/24/2024||
> It's not really very pro human rights to go around doxing the people who are working for human rights in those places. There was nothing in the government crimes or alleged crimes in the documents that needed to be released before the documents had been thoroughly reviewed and the information on people not involved redacted.

This is the big difference I see with the Edward Snowden case, the papers that published the leaked documents attempted to redact any information that could put people at risk.

Assange and Wikileaks just went fuck it and didn't even try to stay politically neutral.

novolunt 10/24/2024|||
[dead]
wiseowise 10/23/2024|||
Exactly how we can read source of Linux distros, GrapheneOS and multitude of other security focused Android forks, right.
peoplefromibiza 10/25/2024||
Thanks for your 0.001% solution (which included me when I had a lot of spare time)

Now name a brand that sells grapheneOS phones

projektfu 10/23/2024||
It seems like Chinese app developers will want some sort of middle layer that they write to in order to get compatibility. Obviously, a lot of developers currently use cross-platform toolkits, but it's unclear how well the popular ones will support something that is strictly for the Chinese market.
joemazerino 10/23/2024||
Huawei's innovations are shadowed by its deep corruption and ties with the CCP. Chinese activists have been targeted and had their apps repacked and resigned by Huawei without notification.

Google isn't an Angel but I'll take the skynet we know vs the skynet we don't.

dragonelite 10/23/2024||
I would be more interested in a OpenHarmony Desktop version. If it picks up on mainland and Asia in general it would be a proper 3rd desktop OS.
komali2 10/23/2024|
3rd desktop os? There are many more than 2 desktop oss already, am I misunderstanding you?
moe_sc 10/23/2024|||
I guess they mean proper as in significant marketshare.
dragonelite 10/24/2024||
I meant this proper as in significant marketshare.
wongarsu 10/23/2024||||
There are only two kernel architectures in use though: Unix-derived and Windows. This could make for a very different new entry
TeaBrain 10/23/2024||
I haven't seen anything to suggest that the new Huawei OS will use a unique kernel architecture.
082349872349872 10/24/2024||
a microkernel is already different to linux.

the top answer on https://www.zhihu.com/question/640078375/answer/3367442919 suggests it was based on the Minix 3 μk, but the bottom answer claims it's greenfield development.

(someone who cares more than I do could buy one of the devices listed in the middle answer and enlighten us as to what's on it?)

EDIT: looks not-minixy to me, according to Huawei's OSDI slides: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41934156

bigbenclock2024 10/27/2024||
It is not Minixy derivative, there is no Unix-like, it's access control is hybrid of traditional role based and capability-based on distributed OpenHarmony operating system base with a distributed file system, on a distributed operating system distro of HarmonyOS. And the kernel module structure is far different on MINIXY https://codedocs.org/what-is/minix-3 HarmonyOS 4.2 uses mature security defense mechanisms such as SELinux, Seccomp, Namespace, and Capability (iOS 17 uses Sandbox and Entitlement to achieve similar effects). HarmonyOS NEXT has designed a CAPABILITY SYSTEM on top of existing defense mechanisms to restrict access to kernel functions and verify IPC permissions.

In HarmonyOS NEXT, kernel objects are used as carriers for data transmission during IPC communication. The CAPABILITY SYSTEM ensures that only those with the capability to read from or write to kernel objects can receive or send messages through these objects. As a result, the content of messages cannot be accessed by malicious processes. DarkNavy ethical cybersecurity group in China tested Huawei's HarmonyOS Next custom kernel earlier this year with a report released in June. https://www.darknavy.org/blog/avss_report_kernel/ and the toolchain is exposed: https://harmonyoshub.com/harmonyos-next-leak-exposes-the-in-...

dragonelite 10/24/2024|||
I meant in potential marketshare, while linux is widely used for desktop(professional users), i wouldn't say it has a lot of marketshare tho. So consumer software support will be limited.
nsonha 10/23/2024|
Is it a new Linux distro (cool) or just another android fork that... can't run android apps (lame)?
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