Posted by AJTSheppard 10/23/2024
Show HN: Satoshi9000 analog BTC key generator (mechanical)
The Satoshi 9000 demo: https://youtu.be/bJiOia5PoGE
The key value proposition of the machine is that it generates analog randomness in the physical world and converts it into digital (1’s and 0’s) randomness. Seamlessly.
But it occurs to me that it may have other uses beyond crypto keys for your own use, such as: * Randomized clinical trials. Clinical trials need a high degree of transparency for ethical reasons; also, for legal reasons should it come to light after the trial has ended that patient selection and treatment selection was not random or in some way biased (say, by the researchers themselves). The machine described herein can provide that transparency to young and old patients, technical and non- technical. * Non-technical management. Many network engineers in need of security keys have bosses that are non-technical. Such managers might prefer security keys (and their generation) which are easier for them to understand. * Estate planning. Suppose members of a family were to inherit digital assets (such as Bitcoin, for example). Not all members of the family are technical and understand Bitcoin. However, each will still need to generate a secure Bitcoin key to receive their share of the inheritance. The machine described herein might help in that task because its source of randomness is more easily understood by laypeople and each can generate their own private key in private (in isolation with the machine). * Anywhere where the users have to have an intuitive understanding of how the randomness is being created; whether they are 5 years old, or 95 years old, and all ages in between.
I'm curious to know if any of the folks over at HN can think of other use cases?
Anyway, quite charming!
I'm not sure what this would add over, for example, entropy derived from a hash of the image of a camera's thermal noise profile.
Those usually don't look and sound like they were made by Doc Brown.
Value proposition: The key value proposition of the machine is that it generates analog randomness in the physical world and converts it into digital (1’s and 0’s) randomness. Especially noteworthy is that it can do so in a visibly, and to a lesser extent audibly (the sound of an agitated coin or die), way that is easily recognized and understood by humans. Other ways of generating digital randomness do not have this characteristic and in some ways have to be considered opaque to the public at large in their method of generating randomness. It comes down to whether people trust their eyes more than a black-box and whether people want this characteristic when generating randomness they are going to use.
I venture to say that anyone, from 5 years old and upwards who saw the machine in operation would understand how it is generating randomness. Dice from prehistory have been used by humans to generate random outcomes, and from the first millennium BC, when coins arose, the same can be said of coins.
Consider a randomized clinical trial. You may have patients that are not technically sophisticated, but must be convinced that the randomized aspects of the trial are done in a way they understand and are willing to give their consent. The same can be said for lawyers.
"I'm not sure what this would add over, for example, entropy derived from a hash of the image of a camera's thermal noise profile." Do you think a 95 year old grandmother will understand the principles by which this type of randomness is created?
Mistrust the machine? Then simply don't use it. ("Don't trust them lying eyes!") What I can say in its favor is it's connected to nothing (air-gapped), you fully control every important aspect of the randomness (fully programmable). Don't like the coins you have? Simply take a quarter from your own pocket and put it in the shaker. Don't like the microcontroller provided, buy (for $4) your own and plug it in. Ditto for the other components. All sensors, motor etc. are commodity parts; replace them. I think this machine is more provably back-door free than any cryptographic machine out there. As I point out in the video, all they important parts used in the generation of randomness walk-away in the palm of your hand -- what I call "walk-away randomness" in the video -- and all that's left is a motor and some wires.
As to the bitrate. Yes, it is not a high bitrate machine, the bit rate of the machine is around 4-bits per minute (time length of tossing/shaking and vigorousness of shaking is wholly under the control of the user - can be longer per shake, faster or slower, or variable during the shake), so for a 256 bit key it takes around an hour. But remember, Bitcoin keys are forever (or the remaining lifetime of the Universe, whichever is shorter), so taking an hour to generate it is short in comparison to its useful lifetime.
I hope the detail, and some background, helps.
Presumably they're using ~Dual-EC DRBG~ some kind of quantum randomness generators these days.
That's sure a hardcore way to run an analogue randomness generator.
I started my working life at age sixteen as a coal miner at the Deep Navigation Colliery in South Wales.
Today, building useful and interesting machines has a lot in common with coal mining. A lot of hard work, and the perpetual risk of being crushed to death by 1,000 feet of rock above you. (The last part is perhaps a bit of a stretch, but it oftentimes feels that way!)