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Posted by sandwichsphinx 10/23/2024

iOS 18.2 Lets EU Users Delete App Store, Safari, Messages, Camera and Photos(www.macrumors.com)
154 points | 230 commentspage 2
nikeee 10/23/2024|
What will happen if I uninstall Messages and someone sends me a text message?
non-nil 10/23/2024||
And where will photos be saved? In a folder in the Files app? The horror!

The Photos app has been so deeply integrated into the OS it’s almost difficult to imagine it not being there.

Not that I would mind, I recently switched to Android so I can rsync my .dng files around, thankyouverymuch.

flohofwoe 10/24/2024|||
Probably not much because everybody uses WhatsApp anyway ;) (in Europe that is)
SirMaster 10/24/2024|||
Same thing that happens when someone sends you a message on any messaging platform when you don't have the app to view the message. It just sits unviewed by you.
g-b-r 10/24/2024||
Has someone ever sent you a message while your phone was off?
alberth 10/23/2024||
If Apple was a European company, I really wonder if EU would be putting all these restrictions on Apple.
caseyy 10/24/2024||
Yes EU would. Believe it or not, companies in the EU currently have to comply with the same EU laws.
graeme 10/24/2024||
There are zero EU companies designated as gatekeepers by the DMA. That will likely affect the dynamic of how the EU perceives any complaints about the law by companies.

Edit: I was incorrect. Booking.com, based in the EU, was added earlier this year. See below

jkaplowitz 10/24/2024|||
> There are zero EU companies designated as gatekeepers by the DMA.

Not true. Booking.com is also designated as a gatekeeper and is based in the Netherlands. Yeah, they're the only one, but there are only seven designated gatekeepers total.

graeme 10/24/2024||
Ah thank you. I see my error, there were six non-EU companies originally designated last year. Booking was added earlier this year, and I missed that.

Though I would note that Booking.com are a subsidiary of an American company, Booking.

jkaplowitz 10/25/2024||
> Though I would note that Booking.com are a subsidiary of an American company, Booking.

Good point, yes. They were sold to Priceline.com in 2005 which has since renamed to Booking Holdings. However, they were founded in the Netherlands, are still based there (unlike their American parent company), and are still a major tech employer there. They’re European enough for this particular discussion.

Sakos 10/24/2024|||
The EU wouldn't need to if the US gave a crap about regulating their own companies. What's the state of privacy regulations in the US? Anti-trust? Power cable standardisation? Nothing. Well then.

I'm not surprised though. Whenever companies are "forced" to abide by California's more stringent regulations (such as with cars), I always see Americans bitch and moan about how unfair it is. Instead of trying to improve things, some of you just don't seem to care about anything except the bottomline of some billion dollar corporation.

It's weird and disturbing.

g-b-r 10/24/2024||
> Instead of trying to improve things, some of you just don't seem to care about anything except the bottomline of some billion dollar corporation. > > It's weird and disturbing.

In that vein... https://www.wfae.org/energy-environment/2024-04-12/florida-b...

MyFedora 10/24/2024|||
Probably not, but in that case, the U.S. would fill that void instead. It's a wonderful symbiotic relationship where countries don't give a shit about other countries' pet companies. God forbid if the EU would actually be strict with the automotive industry of Germany. God forbid if the U.S. would actually be strict with their tech industry.
josu 10/24/2024||
Yeah, and that's arguably the reason why there is no European Apple, or Facebook, or Google, or Microsoft...
caseyy 10/24/2024|||
Popular soundbite but not true.

When the US was making leaps in technological and computing advancements around the 60s, one third of Europe was under the iron curtain and its economic stagnation. The other two thirds had just about finished rebuilding their infrastructure and amenities after World War 2.

The Marshall Plan led to the establishment of very strong trade relationships between the US and Europe, and it was a time of economic boom in the US. The Cold War led to technological advancements in computing, communication, and aerospace, where the US government funded much tech the like ARPANET to stay ahead of the Soviets in all these fields.

You take a stable business environment not disrupted by world wars, a government showering businesses with free hand-me-down technologies, and a huge economic boom fuelled by a whole continent of people suddenly looking to buy your products (some of which are computers), and you get Silicon Valley just a decade later.

When Woz was tinkering on the first Apple computers with Jobs, their peers in East Germany were looking for ways to go around the Berlin Wall. The economic circumstances and business opportunities couldn't have been more different.

Believe it or not, in the 1970s and 80s when Apple and Microsoft were born, Europe didn't have many of the consumer rights protections that it has today. It was largely focused on protecting its people from the USSR. In many European countries, consumer rights came into political focus only in the last 20 or so years.

Today things are different. European Apple, Facebook, Google and Microsoft all exist and I believe are incorporated in Ireland. These companies do a large portion of their business in Europe. And if you consider today's tech, EU is very competitive with the US. In fintech, Revolut, Klarna and Adyen have similar user numbers as US alternatives. In AI, Google DeepMind is and has always been a UK company, and Graphcore makes NVIDIA's specialised AI chips. In the EV space, you may have heard of Volkswagen, Porsche, Land Rover, etc. In the business environment, SAP dominates ERP worldwide. And in games, you may have heard of Ubisoft, CD Projekt Red, Arkane, Playground Games, and many other European companies. The list goes on and on.

The argument that Europe didn't form Silicon Valley post WW2 because of its current consumer protection laws is inane. Or that Europe doesn't have the same FANGMAN companies that operate in the US, or that it doesn't have strong tech competitors in the global space on the scale of FANGMAN. There were much larger forces at play than being able/not able to delete the App Store in the formation and development of tech hubs around the world.

kcb 10/24/2024||
I don't think your examples really prove your point. You include 100 year old auto manufacturers, companies long acquired by US tech giants, and a failing AI hardware company that has nothing to do with Nvidia. Probably the most valid example is SAP but even then it's in the slowest moving most bureaucratic ridden industry.
flohofwoe 10/24/2024|||
OTH there's Spotify which isn't any better than Google, Facebook or Apple when it comes to enshittifying their user experience.

Also:

https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/national-news/2023/imy-issue...

solarkraft 10/24/2024||
This is a good thing!

But it’s also a token gesture. Wake me up when I can ACTUALLY sideload apps and it’s possible to use a synchronization service other than iCloud.

7thpower 10/23/2024||
Please Siri next, please, please, please.
latexr 10/24/2024|
You can disable Siri and there’s no app for it on the Home Screen. What exactly are you asking for?
7thpower 10/25/2024||
Optionality.
latexr 10/25/2024||
What’s not optional about being able to disable it entirely?
7thpower 10/25/2024||
Not being able to replace it with an alternative that is a first class citizen.
wiether 10/24/2024||
The difference in the comment section between the source and here is quite impressive.

I can't understand why people feel the need to throw so much hate in reaction to this kind of announcement.

There isn't even the beginning of a reflection, just pure hate.

It's sad, really.

hs86 10/24/2024||
Probably another instance of people who somehow couple the success of their chosen team/group to their own self-worth. Depending on the intensity of the manifestation, we call it national pride, gang affiliation or John Gruber.
EasyMark 10/24/2024|||
Because you’re on a site where a lot of people believe in less regulation and more free market? I would guess that’s the thing. And people have strong opinions on both sides.
andrewmcwatters 10/24/2024|||
It’s really odd to me, too, seeing as that Apple products don’t scream overt conservatism, but clearly their product practices do.
Fidelix 10/24/2024||
I don't think that word "conservatism" mean what you think
latexr 10/24/2024|||
It’s not just comment sections. Pundits with large following can be very much the same.

John Gruber, of Daring Fireball, is viciously anti-EU to the point he’s gone full looney.

A handful of days after Threads launched he called it “the most fun app of the year” or some nonsense, and made fun of people in the EU (this as DMA-related).

A few weeks ago I saw him compare the EU to Trump, only because some EU document had bolded words in a way he felt was haphazard.

Every time I’m faced with one his posts, the replies are now full of the “old man yells at cloud” image.

2OEH8eoCRo0 10/24/2024||
I tend to assume they either work for Apple, are in a business making obscene money with similar lock-in, or have learned the toxic behavior from those who are. It does seem unnatural.
ewuhic 10/23/2024||
[flagged]
thefounder 10/23/2024||
Nice nice nice! Finally some freedom for the consumer.
p5v 10/24/2024||
Right, because every browser on iOS isn't obviously a Safari skin.
flohofwoe 10/24/2024|
That's no longer a requirement since iOS 17.4 (also thanks to the EU, but also only for users in the EU):

https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-browser-engi...

mensetmanusman 10/24/2024|
Is the purpose of this to help the EU build a tech giant? Protect consumers?
nw05678 10/24/2024|
EU is seen as anti-competitive, but the reality is that it's Pro-Consumer...

...maybe too pro-consumer. Also the lack of a Google or Facebook etc is more of a result of it being harder to gain a critical mass of users. A social media company started in Poland would struggle to deal with the cultural and language differences with Holland. A more homogenous society such as the US doesn't have that issue.

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