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Posted by LorenDB 10/25/2024

We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines(www.ifixit.com)
1112 points | 308 commentspage 4
Buttons840 10/25/2024|
If you can raed tihs, you hvae voilated the DCMA and cmomitted a fleony.

The oirginal palin txet of tihs msesage was put trhough a porprietary ecnryption aglorithm I cerated, and waht you see hree is the rseulting cpyher txet. It is illegal for you to rveerse my porprietary ecnryption aglorithm.

I wnat tihs on a TS-hirt.

rummyMars 10/26/2024||
Sabhjjtyi
iamnotsure 10/26/2024||
What about the cows?
coder543 10/25/2024||
I wish we would just repeal the DMCA.

Under no circumstances should we need an exemption from the copyright office just to be able to repair an ice cream machine. It's not even a permanent exemption! The DMCA causes many weird problems.

twothreeone 10/25/2024||
It's still weird to me that we ended up in a world in which every bit of information can now be copied at zero cost and instead of heralding and building upon that technological achievement we've somehow decided that instead we're going to make laws to protect and enforce rent seeking instead. I assume it's one of those things where a few corpos just outplayed 99% of the population; just like universal health care, or public education.
hn_throwaway_99 10/25/2024|||
This seems like a very one-sided take. Just look at all the artists (actors, painters, musicians, etc.) that are fighting tooth and nail against AI, and for good reason. While there are plenty of issues with copyright, I don't agree at all that just because the marginal cost of copying is 0 that if someone puts a ton of time and effort in creating a piece of work that I should just get to copy it for free.
twothreeone 10/26/2024||
That's not the argument though. The argument is that rent seeking as a business strategy is a deeply flawed and counter productive economic practice that ultimately limits our species' technological advancements and societal progress. The sooner we move past it, the better off we will all be. I agree that you should be able to create whatever you want and keep it 100%. So, clearly if someone were to steal your creation from your home and publish it online that would be theft. However, if you decided to take advantage of your creation by creating an infinite number of copies at no cost to you at all (which is what publishing through digital media means) that's your decision as a creator to make, nobody forced that on you.
hn_throwaway_99 10/26/2024||
I don't like your redefinition of "rent seeking" at all. If I create an original piece of art, and publish it digitally, preventing other people from freely copying that art is not rent seeking - the thing I created didn't exist in any form before I created it, and I'm not trying to "extract rent" from you by preventing you from creating any of your own works.

Now, like I said previously, there are currently issues with copyright, and this can cross into rent seeking if I try to extract money from your own original works of art (see the family of Marvin Gaye), and there are issues with the length of copyright (i.e. I believe there is a fundamental difference in protecting the right of a creator while they're alive, vs. the rights of inheritors in perpetuity). But the whole concept of rent seeking is around using the power of government to extract money from others simply because you were there first, not around allowing unlimited copying of truly original works.

visarga 10/26/2024|||
Before we invented copying machines there was no concept of copyright. It is a recent invention, and not how human culture evolved. And it was ok up until the internet was invented, but people want to return from passive consumption to interactive. We now prefer games, social networks and search to books, radio and TV. AI is just the latest stage in this move away from passivity.

Why should society not have the right for its traditional interactive way of exchanging culture? Extending the duration of copyright was a perverse move, and now blocking the right to repair is another perverse move. DMCA put all publishers at the whim of agencies spamming takedowns with impunity even for no reason at all. Artists more recently would like to copyright abstractions to block generative AI from reusing their ideas.

People need their traditional ways back. We started open source, made Wikipedia, we now have open scientific publication, teachers share prep materials. Clearly there is a sign that copyright is not essential for society. Copyleft or sharing is more important.

twothreeone 10/26/2024|||
See, even the name is misleading because it's not a right - it's really a prohibition. We can agree or disagree about definitions, but I think it is self-evident that defending and enforcing a prohibition on creating zero-cost copies of digital media requires bending over backwards to undo the very properties of the technology that make it desirable to those who want to profit off of it. To me that sure sounds like rent seeking.
dkarras 10/25/2024||||
I don't understand this. Copyright law does not prevent people from sharing their information freely. It gives the option for "rent seekers" to do their thing. Enforcing your rights for return is optional for people that don't want to do it. I'm not talking about right-to-repair here, but the idea of copyright in general.

A lot of information is generated by taking some financial risk with the hopes of creating something of value and recouping that investment + some profit. Copyright makes that kind of venture possible. It doesn't prevent altruistic souls from putting in the same effort without any expectation of return. We always had this, by default. Copyright framework allows pursuit, generation and dissemination of huge swaths of valuable information that would otherwise not exist.

d0gsg0w00f 10/25/2024||||
Uhh, it's because information can be easily copied that the laws were put in place. If anyone can "steal" your work then it would be a deterrent to invention.

If I'm a business that can make money on the service contract I can sell the unit at a lower price. Now I'm forced to make the unit cost higher.

staplers 10/25/2024|||

   I assume it's one of those things where a few corpos just outplayed 99% of the population
"The key element of social control is the strategy of distraction that is to divert public attention from important issues and changes decided by political and economic elites"

-Chomsky

kiba 10/25/2024||
Everyone believe they need copyright, therefore it is the status quo.
t-writescode 10/25/2024|||
It’s a reasonable stance to want copyright.

It’s an anti-consumer stance to force copyright to nearly 100 years and allow no format swapping under a hilariously broad set of normal transmission and format-swapping techniques.

Teever 10/25/2024||||
Does everyone believe that we need copyright to be the exact way that it is though?

I'm pretty sure that the reason that copyright laws are the way they are is because certain industries in the US lobby the government to strong arm other countries into adopting onerous copyright restrictions as part of free trade agreements.

Whatever you feel about the merits of intellectual property laws the idea that they're wrapped up as 'free trade' when they in fact make things that would otherwise be free cost money is downright Orwellian.

Maybe countries that don't really have a film or tv industry don't want to see copyright on those products and why would they? Why would they want to see their citizens paying American countries for something that would otherwise be free?

johnnyanmac 10/25/2024||
I'm fine going back to the old 14+14 rules copyright originally. having your creation for an entire generation seems appropriate. But opinions are all across the spectrum on this issue.

I think the primary reason the "spirit" of current copyright broke down is because it's been reduced to hoarding over protecting. the idea is that I can license out an idea if I really want to make use of it. So creations flow and the company makes their own cut out of it.

But I can't just walk up to Disney and pay 100 dollars ,1000, maybe even 1 million to grab Mickey Mouse and work with something. Depending on their products, they may not want anyone using Mickey period, even if there is no mickey product cycle. You basically need to be EA or Mattel or Warner Bros. to even begin being considered for such a thing.

That's their right but it spoils the social contract. When everything by default is locked down, there is no creation flowing. Just broken dreams for abandoned franchises everyone else would love to make use of.

BadHumans 10/25/2024|||
No one has put forth a good argument about why I don't need copyright.
johnnyanmac 10/25/2024|||
There's definitely tiers of copyright to consider, which is part of the divisiveness on the issue. You wanting to protect your creation and get compensated for its IP for 10-20 years (so, a good portion of your life career) is very different from Disney wanting to delay Mickey mouse going into public domain. an IP its creator and studio already reaped trillions from over the century.
kelnos 10/25/2024|||
No one should have to. If we're talking about putting/maintaining restrictions on people, the onus should be on the proponents to put forth a good argument why we need it.
BadHumans 10/25/2024||
Not when you are the one trying to change the status quo. Regardless of what you believe, if you want to change the default you need to explain to people why it should change. A self-righteous stance like yours will change nothing.
twothreeone 10/26/2024||
Well the argument is that the status quo is bad for all but a select few, so moving past it would be beneficial for basically nearly everybody.

Rent seeking limits innovation, needlessly drives up costs, creates barriers where there shouldn't be any, encourages predatory economic behaviors, suppresses competition, and ultimately leads to monopolistic and or oligopolic wealth and power structures.

It's universally bad practice that results in bad outcomes for society and we should move away from enabling and indeed incentivizing that kind of economic behavior.

readthenotes1 10/25/2024|||
Disney was willing to go to the ends of the Earth to protect Mickey mouse...
eli 10/25/2024|||
Sure, but the anti-circumvention provisions in particular just inconvenience everyone. It's not like DVDs being "protected" prevented them from being ripped.
Izikiel43 10/25/2024||||
And Paraguay won
lolinder 10/25/2024|||
Reference for those who didn't see it:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41550417

selimthegrim 10/25/2024||
I really have to wonder if the BoJack Horseman writers knew about this when they wrote the Disney trademark episode.
MichaelZuo 10/25/2024|||
Well they didn’t literally go to every last square km on planet Earth… so it’s not that surprising.
doctorpangloss 10/25/2024||
Do you think people should face consequences for piracy? If not, should DRM be legal then?
coder543 10/25/2024|||
I’m not a lawyer, but I think it’s pretty clear that piracy is not illegal because of the DMCA; it’s illegal because it violates normal copyright laws. Repealing the DMCA would not change the legal status of piracy.

Repealing the DMCA also wouldn’t make DRM illegal, but DRM would still be exactly as (in)effective as it has already proven to be countless times. DRM has done nothing to restrict piracy, as far as I can tell.

Repealing the DMCA would simply allow people to more freely break DRM in pursuit of lawful purposes, which are currently restricted unfairly, including activities that would fall strictly under Fair Use. I would argue the DMCA is infringing my legal rights for no benefit to society.

Distributing copies of copyrighted content without authorization was unlawful long before the DMCA, outside of Fair Use scenarios.

xbar 10/25/2024||||
Piracy was just as Federally illegal prior to the DMCA. Think back to Streetfighter....
doctorpangloss 10/25/2024||
It’s a simple question. I know it’s illegal. Should regular people face consequences or not? The status quo is “no,” which is the first step to understanding why making consequences for circumventing DRM is a bitter compromise that is maybe the best option.
nemomarx 10/25/2024||
I'm not sure I follow. In the case where breaking DRM isn't illegal, but piracy still is illegal, what happens that you think is bad?
doctorpangloss 10/26/2024|||
What is the difference between doing something illegal and having consequences and doing something illegal that has no consequences?
StrangeDoctor 10/25/2024|||
(not op) I think DMCA specifically should be repealed. We can still have DRM/Copyright/etc if enough people want it, we could look at other systems, but DMCA itself is awful. Repealing it doesn't make any statement about piracy.
SoftTalker 10/25/2024||
All of this was unnecessary on the old ice cream machines. The downside was they had to be cleaned and sanitized every night and that meant you needed one more person on the closing team. It was all about saving labor costs.
bonestamp2 10/26/2024||
Agreed, and with these new machines, they should have two of them (for several reasons). I worked there for a couple years in high school and summertime was just order after order of ice cream. The lost profit from the only machine being broken, or during it's downtime to chill the soft serve liquid after a refill, would pay back the investment in one summer, not to mention the customer service improvement.

The ad campaign for resolving this problem writes itself too. It's easily worth it. Worst case scenario, put the second machine where the pizza oven used to be.

minitoar 10/26/2024|||
Is there anything stopping a franchise from putting 2? I think it can’t be required because they have to meet some sort of smallest viable footprint.
legacynl 10/26/2024|||
I think that the opportunity costs are just too high.

Since the reliability of these machines seem very low, even having 2 machines doesn't guarantee that you're always able to serve ice cream.

And if you're able to serve all your customers with one machine, in times when both are functioning, the second machine doesn't really enable more sales. But you do have to power it, have a dedicated space for it, have someone clean it daily, and pay for the maintenance contract.

It's probably more beneficial to dedicate the space for an extra ice-cream machine to storage, frying station or something else that is more useful.

Another point is that I don't think not being able to sell ice cream reduces sales that much. Because by the time you find out the machine is broken, you're already in the store or drive through anyway

bonestamp2 10/27/2024||
They're not that unreliable, but it seems like they're more unreliable than they actually are because they sometimes lie to customers -- it's easier to say it's broken than explain what is actually happening.

You see, demand for ice cream is very weather driven and that means nearly everyone wants ice cream at the same time. But each machine has a throughput limit. So, a lot of the time when they say the machine is broken, it's really just that the demand has exceeded the machine's capacity, and it takes awhile for the machine to freeze the ice cream mixture when it is refilled. If you had a second machine, that's when you switch to the second machine and by the time that one's capacity is reached, then the other machine will be ready to go again.

The machines also do what modern refrigerators do and they run a defrost/heating cycle to prevent ice from building up on the cooling equipment inside. If a defrost cycle happens at the same time as a freeze cycle, it extends the downtime because it then takes longer to freeze the ice cream mixture.

> to storage, frying station or something else that is more useful.

Storage and frying capacity is not at problem at most McDonald's. Two things they do really well is frying and just-in-time delivery.

> by the time you find out the machine is broken, you're already in the store or drive through anyway

A lot of people come with a car full of kids just for ice cream, they go to your competitor when you don't have it. If they didn't want the expense of an extra ice cream machine, they could keep ice cream sandwiches in the freezer and offer those as a substitute when the ice cream machine is locked out in a freeze or defrost cycle.

newsclues 10/26/2024||||
Space is a premium because much of their real estate is high traffic and cost, so every square foot is used
SoftTalker 10/26/2024||
Most of the sales at a McDonalds are via the drive-thru. Inside sales have dropped so low that many stores don't even staff the front counter, you have to enter your own order at a kiosk in the lobby or use their mobile app.

I think your conjecture was correct 20 years ago but not at store with the latest remodels. Counter sales and inside dining are an afterthought.

The ice cream machines (all restaurant equipment, really) is very expensive and you generally don't buy more than you will actually use.

newsclues 10/26/2024||
Space costs money per square foot, doesn’t matter if it’s in the kitchen or dining area.

Lots of locations are in the smallest sized location possible that can fit everything they need to serve the menu.

borski 10/26/2024|||
Cost, most likely.
bonestamp2 10/30/2024||
An ice cream machine costs less than $3,000. The whole McDonald's costs $1.5m - $2.5m. They could buy a second ice cream machine with 2-3 day's profit.
megablast 10/26/2024|||
Do they even make a profit on ice creams? I doubt it.
RussianCow 10/26/2024|||
Of course they do. The cost of the ingredients is on the order of cents, the marginal cost of labor negligible, and the cost of the machines can be amortized over many thousands of servings.

But even if they didn't, it's a cheap way to get people to show up and potentially order other, higher margin items. If your machine is broken, you lose that funnel and your customers go elsewhere.

bombcar 10/26/2024||
You don’t lose many customers - because they’re not required to light a huge “ice cream machine broke” before you get in the drive thru. And once you’re in line and ordering you’re unlikely to cancel just because the machine broke.

I’ve even had the app be wrong and let you order an ice cream when it doesn’t exist - then they lose money giving you a more expensive substitute.

lukan 10/26/2024||
But next time you might go somewhere else.

Some people go there every day and they tell their friends - that sums up.

cj 10/26/2024|||
This summarizes my relationship with Chipotle.

We have 1 location in my area. I go maybe once a month hoping for a decent experience, but every single time they are out of key ingredients (no chicken, no beans, no chips, etc).

I really don’t understand how that can even happen at Chipotle where the entire menu consists of a grand total of (maybe) 10-15 core ingredients?

I would go way more often if they simply weren’t out or ingredients 90% of the time I go.

But he’s right about not canceling the order. I think last chipotle visit I subbed black beans for pinto, and tofu instead of chicken. The “sorry no chips today” was icing on the cake at checkout.

Psyonic 10/26/2024||
That’s interesting. I’ve gone to chipotle around once or twice a month for two decades now, and with the exception of their lemonades I’ve only had something unavailable maybe 3-4 times. Regional variation I guess.
cj 10/26/2024||
Check out r/chipotle - maybe it’s an echo chamber there but it’s a major problem with mobile orders where you don't have an opportunity to sub an ingredient that’s out of stock. Depending on the store, chipotle mobile orders are a “fun” gamble - chipotle needs to fix quality standards across stores at least in my region!

Chipotle is one of the very few businesses I have ever left a google review for because the complaint seems extremely simple to fix. Just stock your store and hire enough people to prep the food!

05 10/26/2024||||
> But next time you might go somewhere else.

But variable reinforcement works better than fixed one, so ice cream machines working being a gamble might actually increase customer addiction.

bombcar 10/26/2024|||
True - it every time I’ve considered ice cream as an important part of the meal I’ve already disqualified McDonald’s (Dairy Queen or Culver’s is a step above).
bonestamp2 10/28/2024|||
The small cones, you're probably right (once you factor in all of the fixed costs). But, the $5 McFlurry... definitely!
recursive 10/25/2024|||
It's also all about Taylor's exclusivity on repairing the machines.
Aloisius 10/25/2024||
Eh. Taylor doesn't fix the machines. You actually get a contract with an independent certified technician - quite often provided through the reseller who sold the machine.
fhub 10/26/2024|||
25% of Taylor's revenue (at least 3 years ago) were parts and repair services. source - https://youtu.be/SrDEtSlqJC4?si=n_L87Fx3VWeEz9Xz&t=1261
recursive 10/25/2024|||
Certified by a Taylor-accredited organization. The money all goes the same way. A distinction without a difference.
Aloisius 10/25/2024||
Taylor doesn't get paid for the vast majority of repairs. The money goes to the independent technician.

They make some money for replacement parts, but that's rarely more than the occasional o-ring.

janalsncm 10/25/2024|||
> It's also all about Taylor's exclusivity on repairing the machines.

In context, it doesn’t matter whether Taylor is getting paid or Santa Claus is. The problem is that McDonald’s franchises were not able to fix them due to software locks.

darth_avocado 10/25/2024||
Which means sometimes you buy replacement machines from Taylor
talldayo 10/26/2024||||
If Taylor accredits the technician, supplies the technician with proprietary tools for servicing Taylor devices, and furnishes them with replacement parts that can otherwise not be bought by consumers off the shelf - they are a Taylor employee. That is not independent repair, it is a racket.
whaleofatw2022 10/25/2024|||
What is a franchising fee or other franchising requirements? The shop is paying them money for the ability to get money for the repairs. Don't be intellectually dishonest.
bobsmooth 10/26/2024|||
And that you trust this person to clean the machine properly lest many people get food poisoning.
ClumsyPilot 10/26/2024|||
If they can’t be trusted with cleaning they should not be allowed in the kitchen.

This is like asking if a developer can be trusted with a laptop

hypeatei 10/26/2024|||
> asking if a developer can be trusted with a laptop

This analogy doesn't seem to track with my experience: newer devs don't understand computers and filesystems at all :D

delusional 10/26/2024||
And a lot of workplaces in fact don't trust the devs with a laptop. Instead they get a text editor and compiler machine controlled by some sweaty guy in a cellar somewhere with a sign on the door that says "IT".
63stack 10/26/2024|||
I think this is getting more and more common. I had a job where I had to work remotely through citrix, because the company didn't trust developers to have their own computers. I have also heard stories from others having to do the same. It's the most brain wrecking way to work due to the latency when typing.
SoftTalker 10/26/2024|||
True, though it was not complicated. Just took a person about 45 minutes. That was to do the milkshake and the soft serve machine. Did it many, many times when I worked there.
MikeTheGreat 10/26/2024||
Can I ask why it takes / took 45 minutes? That feels like a lot to clean one machine.

Was that all 'active' time or was there a 'put things in the dishwasher / autoclave and let it sterilize for X minutes?'

Were there a lot of separate parts to wash?

Now I'm curious :)

loongloong 10/26/2024|||
Maybe a good idea to work for a short stint in a commercial kitchen?

Not a snark.. it's quite eye opening to see (and actually use) how much food a piece of commercial kitchen equipment processeses in a day and then how much effort it takes to clean them.

An example of cleaning a commercial deep fryer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFR5CN_kuI0

One can also try googling for other more detailed versions showing all the efforts in digging out all the burnt sediments/sludge :)

joezydeco 10/26/2024||||
I did this for a year and a half in high school.

The McD procedure involves draining the barrel, flushing it with water, then disassembling each barrel assembly and removing every o-ring and gasket.

https://youtu.be/SaYTx7qNJU4?si=Y2ZjWHQJHiKQfAFh

Each part is washed in detergent, rinsed, and sanitized. Rings and gaskets are relubricated with food safe petroleum jelly, then everything is reassembled.

Forget one ring or misalign one gasket and the machine will shoot dairy everywhere when repressurized. Cleanup and rework after that is messy, and probably wasted a lot of other nearby product and disposables. So don't do that.

After reassembly the machine is flushed with sanitizer then clear water then primed with the mix you saved from the beginning. Let's hope you stored it properly in the cooler before it started to spoil. It's expensive. If nothing has exploded it's ready for use after an hour of cooling down.

To do this in 45 minutes with no catastrophic errors is pro-level. And this is why McD went to a self-sanitizing machine.

SoftTalker 10/26/2024||
Basically right, where I worked the parts were set in trays to air-dry overnight. There was a spot on the tray for each part, o-ring, and gasket so you could easily see if any were missing.

The machines were reassembled the next morning. So the closers only had to break them down, wash, and sanitize.

Once a week any dairy mix left in the machine was discarded, this "breaks the cycle" of any bacteria in the mix. So on that night, you tried to let the machines run very low to minimize waste.

It's sort of complicated the first few times but it becomes very routine. Like everything at McDonalds, there is a detailed step-by-step written procedure on how to do it.

joezydeco 10/26/2024||
Yeah, I was thinking more about the grandparent above that said it took 45 minutes and that had to mean breakdown/cleaning/reassembly in one step. I was there in 1985-86 and we did like you said, one crew member did the cleaning at close and let it air dry for the morning crew. But that was also because shakes/ice cream wasn't served during the breakfast shift. Someone had time in the morning to assemble and prime the machine before 10:30am (me).

I'm guessing 24/7 operation changed when and how the cleaning was done, leading to more contamination instead of less.

WBrentWilliams 10/27/2024||||
The machine from 30+ years ago that I regularly took apart and put back together had about 35 user-cleanable parts for the milkshake side and 12 for the ice cream side. The worst part of the ordeal was removing the rubber o-rings They went on easily enough, but removing took quite a bit of patience. The whole process took about 30 minutes, start-to-finish, including soaking the washed parts in bleach -- no dishwasher as the blades used to cut the frozen ice cream base from the inside of the machine would dull and ding causing damage to the machine.

The new machines came in long after I moved on to other jobs. In ideal situations, they re-pasteurize the mix overnight, leading to a drop in 1-2 person-hours of labor.

bombcar 10/26/2024|||
Properly cleaning those types of machines is complicated. If you ever watch someone wash the soda machine it’s an hour+ process.

(And it’s often skipped, if you ever get soda that tastes off you’ve found someplace that doesn’t deep clean.)

wwweston 10/25/2024||
Note this part:

> This time, the FTC and DOJ even weighed in to support our petition.

See also:

https://www.ifixit.com/News/92942/the-ftc-and-doj-call-for-i...

Elections matter.

kelnos 10/25/2024|
[flagged]
amscanne 10/25/2024|||
Prepare to have your mind blown: https://www.techdirt.com/2018/07/11/shocker-dojs-computer-cr...
wwweston 10/26/2024||
Certainly blew the mind of the people writing the techdirt article if the opening paragraph is any indication: "Well here’s a surprise for you / This is… flabbergasting." It's almost like they thought they had good reasons to expect something else from TFG's adminstration.

Why were the results different?

DOJ composition running up through 2018 was pretty strongly influenced by a decade of liberal-leaning but cross-partisan staffing, and this was a legal theory that obviously emerged from within staff rather than coming down from the top.

And psychology of liberal or conservative but principled lawyers is likely to be conscientious enough when it comes to their legal theorizing that except where it serves particular organized power plays, you'll see some principled arguments come out, like this one, because obviously the DMCA exists to protect copyright rather than stymie repair.

Also, right-to-repair has an appeal that crosses partisan boundaries very well, especially among voters themselves. Sure, businesses and social influencers who'd sacrifice right-to-repair for pro-capital / power-play positions are probably highly represented and influential in the right-wing party, what with the investment in social philosophies oriented around hierarchies of status. But going against right-to-repair is still unpopular enough and likely to piss off conservative-identifying libertarians that there was bound to be some discomfort, even with the usual Republican enthusiasm for being a pro-capital / pro-business capture party.

And finally, while it's obvious that the 2018 POTUS is only capable seeing the issue in terms of friends/opportunities and enemies/liabilites rather than principled legal or social theories, it's also obvious that right-to-repair is one of the things that benefited from his shall we say limited range/depth of interest when it comes to policy. Inattention can allow any number of things to thrive. At least until someone offers to buy right-to-repair off of him. Elections matter.

amscanne 10/28/2024|||
I don’t think the surprise was based on the head of the executive, rather it was based on the DOJ taking a stance in favor of exemptions.

I just get tired of the idea that the president/executive completely colors every single government action. Let’s stop pretending that every election will completely rewrite the MO and agendas for every agency.

The comment I replied to was based on exactly those kinds of assumptions (“couldn’t possibly imagine this happening under Trump”) and was wrong. Now you’re just doing a no-true-Scotsman (“oh, it only happened because he wasn’t paying attention”).

I’ve personally seen no evidence that right-to-repair is a partisan issue in the way you’ve suggested, and I’ve seen plenty of evidence that the cronyism charges you’re levying are also not limited to a single party. You can hate the guy for lots of reasons, but the idea that Trump is uniquely capable of being bought on this issue seems very strange to me.

lisper 10/26/2024|||
> TFG's adminstration

Huh? Did you mean DJT?

wombatpm 10/26/2024||
TFG = The Former Guy = Trump
lisper 10/26/2024||
Ah. TIL.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/tfg/

nick3443 10/26/2024||
Just another UFA.
lisper 10/26/2024||
WTF? DYM TLA?
nick3443 10/27/2024||
I'll give you a hint, starts with useless rhymes with ducking
userbinator 10/25/2024||||
Guess how the majority of farmers and rural folk wanting to fix their own equipment are leaning politically. Also the automotive aftermarket.
lostlogin 10/26/2024||
Assuming the people vote for the party that would help them the most would be unwise.
paradox460 10/26/2024|||
Remind me which party signed the DMCA into law after it passed the house unanimously
asveikau 10/26/2024||
Remind me what party had the house and senate when DMCA passed...
paradox460 10/26/2024||
Clinton didn't veto it, and it passed the senate (not house, my mistake) unanimously
devilbunny 10/26/2024|||
Assuming you know more about what people need than they do is also unwise. For starters, “MyParty(TM) is better for you, you’re just too dumb to realize it” is not a particularly effective campaign strategy. Both major US parties have tried it.
afavour 10/26/2024||
I didn't see the OP campaigning, just stating fact. People vote against their personal interests when convinced to do so. I don't think that's a particularly controversial statement.
devilbunny 10/26/2024||
It is the height of arrogance to assume that someone is so dumb that they don't even know what their interests are.

I have my interests. Some are satisfied by the Democrats. Some are satisfied by the Republicans. Some are satisfied by both. Some are satisfied by neither. My vote goes to the person who best satisfies my most important interests at the time. Sometimes I have to eat shit in doing so, but that's politics for you.

afavour 10/26/2024|||
> It is the height of arrogance to assume that someone is so dumb that they don't even know what their interests are.

It’s also true. Call it arrogant all you want but it remains fact that people vote against their interests when persuaded to do so. If the retort is that it’s somehow rude to say this… so be it.

wwweston 10/26/2024|||
Tell me more about arrogance, like it's not arrogance and maybe even hubris for someone to assert they just naturally know their interests and how they interact with various policies (much less how parties are going to show up to support them).

It's not that someone is dumb if they sometimes don't know their own interests. It's that it's a hard problem that even smart people can fail at. Maybe especially smart people who don't appreciate that it's a hard problem and perhaps even are prone to confuse failure with stupidity.

Those who appreciate the complexity of the various problem domains for social policy or even of the information environment wouldn't be the least surprised if they personally accidentally voted against their own interest.

And it's far from controversial that many people are much more likely to vote by connecting their values to impressions/symbols invoked by campaigns and parties than to dig in even at the policy white paper level and arrive at a carefully calculated cost/benefit analysis for each candidate.

Maybe you're an exception. Probably not, but maybe. What about most people? Well, if it's true in a 2024 presidential race "about their policies, Harris would win handily... because voters — whether they know it or not — overwhelmingly prefer the vice president’s agenda to the former president’s"[0] but also true that the race is a coin flip, that suggests some significant margin of people who are doing something else other than policy-interest calculations.

Meanwhile, back at the specific topic, almost nobody is campaigning on right to repair, so even among people who happen to be detailed interest calculators (whoever that may be), it'd be little surprise if as an issue it didn't figure strongly into how they considered their interests and cast their vote.

If this issue matters to you, consider that right-to-repair friendly interpretations of the law are where the civil servant / professional administrative / "deep state" has arrived at under the direction and staffing priorities of prevailing liberal order. Which, is, uh, not really the energy/vibe of one of the current candidates (and it's fairer to speak of energy/vibes than policies when it comes to him given how obvious it is that this is a guy who doesn't do homework and knows little policy other than personal advantage).

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/interactive/2024/tru...

devilbunny 10/29/2024||
> Well, if it's true in a 2024 presidential race "about their policies, Harris would win handily... because voters — whether they know it or not — overwhelmingly prefer the vice president’s agenda to the former president’s"[0] but also true that the race is a coin flip, that suggests some significant margin of people who are doing something else other than policy-interest calculations.

I looked at that article. Distinctly missing from the methodology is "and how much do you actually care about this issue?". I might agree with Candidate A on dogs, mom's apple pie, and a thousand other issues, but Candidate B only on Hot Button Issue A and Hot Button Issue B - but if my concern is about Hot Button Issues A and B, then agreeing with a greater number of positions from Candidate A is really beside the point.

dangus 10/26/2024|||
I can imagine it, because broken ice cream machines only affect millionaire McDonald's franchise owners negatively.

Also the leader of the Republican Party happens to be a loyal McDonald's customer. I mean, the guy bought the Clemson Tigers McDonald's instead of using the White House's in-house catering.

lysace 10/25/2024||
Bad headline. No, they can't. They are now allowed to, but they don't have the actual ability to do so.

Clickbait of the weirdest kind - the totally unnecessary one. They could have gone with more truthful "We're now allowed to" with the same amount of impact... right?

singron 10/25/2024|
Yeah this was weird. You usually expect this from a newspaper where the editor chooses an inaccurate headline, but this is iFixit? The actual text of the article points out that just about every McDonalds franchise will be unaffected and have equally broken ice cream machines, which is why it's so weird that they contradict that in the headline.
lysace 10/26/2024||
Yeah, it lowered my confidence in them, to be honest.
foreverobama 10/26/2024||
[dead]
assanineass 10/25/2024|
[flagged]