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Posted by pabs3 10/26/2024

Bluesky Is Not Decentralized(beige.party)
218 points | 194 commentspage 2
ck2 10/26/2024|
People are going to nit-pic and while some of the concerns have some weight to them, so far they are trivial IMHO

The fact is we need an alternative to X because the current owner has done and will continue to do terrible things not just to the service but apparently on a personal and political level that is beyond distasteful to a HUGE chunk of the users (if not even greater than 50%)

And Threads isn't going to cut it for similar reasons.

So in an imperfect world Bluesky is what we get and it's a legit alternative that's better.

The fact a Mastodon<->Bluesky bridge exists says A LOT. Good luck ever getting something like that with X without paying a literal fortune for it.

BlueTemplar 10/28/2024|
Bluesky, being by Twitter founders, isn't that much better in this sense than Threads/Facebook/Meta.

And the biggest issue with Xitter still isn't Elon Musk (have you forgotten the "Trump years" already ?), but because the way how that media works is turning discussions into flamewars, and its users into morons (including Musk, who reportedly was hooked on it long before he bought it). It's especially concerning when journalists (who really should know better) and politicians use it.

That blame lies very much on Twitter's founders.

avinassh 10/26/2024||
related: any high level architecture details on how BlueSky uses SQLite per user?
Natanael_L 10/27/2024||
It's used in a not particularly advanced way - bluesky uses repositories per each user for all their public social activity (posts, likes, etc) and it creates a Merkle tree as an index for them and signs that index (this enables stuff like authenticated content addressing and efficient verification).

SQLite simply stores those posts and that signed Merkle tree. The PDS account host server also has another SQLite DB with a list of its accounts.

They have fancier stuff in their appview server and relay server

jeroenhd 10/26/2024||
Bluesky's marketing is rather annoying on my opinion. They're not defederated in practice and they probably never will be, but that's okay. People don't want a new Mastodon, they want a new Twitter after Musk fucked that up worse than ever.

Their promises of portability may ring empty but so far their lack of AI algorithm and ad feeds are what people actually come to Bluesky for

If you want federation, ActivityPub is there and ready to go. You could probably hack together a bidirectional Bluesky <-> Mastodon bridge without too much effort (requiring an account on BS to post from Mastodon) and enjoy the portability of your main account while also being able to follow your friends and such on BS.

MiguelX413 10/26/2024||
I ultimately came to the conclusion that both those who advocated for the fediverse as a Twitter replacement and those who complained that it was inadequate as a Twitter replacement were both wrong. People don't need “a Twitter” in the first place. It's a terrible website designed to maximize engagement, including negative engagement, for its profit.

I quite agree with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38445649

threeseed 10/26/2024||
> terrible website designed to maximize engagement

It really does show why engagement should never be monetised.

It's just full of fight videos, repackaged memes, controversial takes etc. all designed to get some extra money for the poster. Even VCs and the startup community gets in on it.

GaryNumanVevo 10/26/2024|||
see: BridgyFed
exodust 10/26/2024|||
[flagged]
threeseed 10/26/2024||
I just tried signing up for X using a new account.

99% ultra-right wing political content with obscene amounts of overt racism, anti-semitism etc.

Even though when it asked for my interests politics wasn't even an option.

exodust 10/28/2024||
"99%"... sure.

So just follow the accounts you're interested in? If you just signed up, how does the "for you" know what you like? You can spend all day on X and never see any of that stuff you mention.

Do you prefer "ultra-left wing" content? There's plenty on X, including angry marxists, anti-capitalists, de-colonisers, race-baiters, compulsive virtue-signallers, tantrum-throwers, Musk-haters, dis-information trolls, intifada-fascists, take your pick!

I remember back when Trump was president, every single post he made on Twitter had a torrent of abusive replies bubbling to the top. Even ordinary mundane posts about routine things happening in government were met with endless insult-memes. Surely you don't think Twitter was once a place where inflammatory posts were rare and everyone had good manners?

defrost 10/28/2024||
> race-baiters, compulsive virtue-signallers, tantrum-throwers, dis-information trolls,

are hardly exclusive "ultra-left wing" users, arguably there's more of that to the far-right .. and that's just Tucker Carlson on a slow day.

> Even ordinary mundane posts about routine things happening in government

In your honest opinion, if Trump only ever made ordinary mundane statements about the routine day to day functions of government would there be anything like the level of anti-Trump anger exhibited?

Is it possible the insult-memes are an unsuprising result of a tendancy to praise Hitlers Generals, demonise the people he should work with as "the enemy within", suggest removing licences from news organisations he objects to, etc?

exodust 11/4/2024||
You've gone off topic. I have no interest in rating politicians or their rhetoric. All are guilty at one time or another of gross exaggeration, mud-slinging, spin, etc.

The point is/was regarding X, you can enjoy all the hate-memes towards your favourite enemy. Or just follow posts about Unreal Engine or ancient history or announcements from politicians etc. Follow your favourite Marxists! Or don't follow them. Anything is possible. But whatever you do, don't whinge about "Musk ruined Twitter". That's disinformation of sorts, since as I just explained, you can sign up to X and do whatever you want - read only, post pictures of paint drying, poke fun at celebrities, advocate for animal rights. Up to you.

innocentoldguy 10/26/2024||
How did Musk "fuck [Twitter] up worse than ever"? It has more functionality and is more stable since Musk bought it.
bbor 10/26/2024|||
Source? AFAIK it is not more stable:

https://www.thousandeyes.com/blog/internet-report-twitter-to...

  Twitter appears to be an outlier in that respect. Instead of displaying the usual post-acquisition stability, ThousandEyes’ data indicates that the number and frequency of outages did increase commensurate with the acquisition. If we compare the two periods (pre- and post-acquisition), it’s apparent that there were fewer and less frequent outages prior to the purchase.
And “more functionality”… I guess time continues marching forward so there are some new things, but nothing game changing IMO. The creator economy on there is nonexistent, and changing the color of the checkmarks from blue to grey seems like a lateral move.
innocentoldguy 10/26/2024||
Nothing game-changing? How about:

• Long-form content

• Video streaming

• Grok

• Ability to edit posts

• Bookmarks

• Communities

• Better verification system

• Encrypted direct messages

• Cashtag feature

• Bold and italic text formatting

• Open-sourced algorithm

• Premium features

• Improved search

• Improved analytics for content creators

• And most importantly, less First-Amendment violations in secret partnership with the federal government

exodust 10/28/2024|||
Don't forget community notes. While not perfect, it presents valuable context or counter-points. Musk's posts have been community noted a few times.

Grok is a nice feature, although for paid accounts only. It also seems slightly out of place on X. Most people are there to express themselves, not necessarily seek help or information from AI-gen. I tried it for some coding help, and it did fine.. but doing that task on X felt odd.

eadler 10/28/2024||
Community notes was designed and shipped before the takeover. It was called "birdwatch".
exodust 10/28/2024||
Never heard of birdwatch, never saw it.

I'm in Australia, explanation follows:

From wikipedia: "In November 2022, at the request of new owner Elon Musk, Birdwatch was rebranded to Community Notes... and expanded to Europe and countries outside of the US."

Natanael_L 10/27/2024||||
Most of that doesn't deserve to be called an improvement. That message encryption is one of the worst designs I've ever seen. The algorithm isn't open enough that anybody can see if what it's doing matches the code.

And instead of censoring "secretly" in partnership with the US government they do so in partnership with the Indian government as well as individual Republican politicians.

innocentoldguy 10/27/2024||
> Most of that doesn't deserve to be called an improvement.

Hard disagree. The platform is objectively much better than it was under Jack Dorsey.

> The algorithm isn't open enough that anybody can see if what it's doing matches the code.

Fair, but more is available than before.

> ...in partnership with the Indian government as well as individual Republican politicians.

Would you prefer X break India's laws, specifically Section 69A of the IT Act? I suppose they could do that and then the Indian government would shut them down in India.

Also, are you talking about X suspending Ken Klippenstein's account for doxxing JD Vance? X's rules explicitly state that doxxing people will result in a suspension, so maybe Klippenstein should have thought of that before posting Vance's home address and most of his social security number.

Here's X's policy against what Klippenstein did, which applies to everyone: https://help.x.com/en/rules-and-policies/personal-informatio...

Natanael_L 10/28/2024||
Before Musk, Twitter used to fight those requests.

The platform can not be called better, with more bugs and errors than ever.

Why don't they apply those rules to Republicans? Why can they specifically post stuff like private info about Hunter?

bbor 10/26/2024|||
Thanks for the reply! That's a good list. Of those, I would break them down accordingly:

  - Cool new features
    - Encrypted direct messages
    - Video streaming
    - Ability to edit posts
    - Communities (IDK what this but it sounds cool)
    - Bookmarks
    - Cashtag feature (?)
    - Improved analytics for content creators

  - Trivial decisions about policy
    - Long-form content
    - Bold and italic text formatting

  - Untrue, or at least unverified
    - Better verification system (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-confusion-and-risks-surrounding-twitters-verified-account-changes, https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/24/tech/musk-twitter-blue-check-mark/index.html)
    - Open-sourced algorithm (https://www.wired.com/story/twitters-open-source-algorithm-is-a-red-herring/)
    - Premium features (?)
    - Improved search (?)

  - Same shit different day
    - Grok
Which, tbf, is a lot more cool features than I was giving them credit for! I still think the whole 'nazi' and 'arbitrary moderation' thing outweighs those changes by a lot, but they did add stuff.
innocentoldguy 10/26/2024||
I'm not sure what you mean by "Nazi" and "arbitrary moderation." Can you clarify?
Natanael_L 10/27/2024||
Musk is reposting actual neonazi accounts
timeon 10/26/2024||||
Like Facebook, it does not really work for people without account. It did before. So for most people on the internet it has less functionality (if any).
macobrien 10/26/2024|||
To give just one example, sometime in March of this year, a bug appeared in the Android app that prevents loading of new posts for several minutes after the phone is plugged in to charge. It's now been 7 months, and the bug has not been fixed.
bowsamic 10/26/2024||
I'm not really sure what the benefit of BS over Mastodon is anyway. Everyone interesting is on Mastodon
rsynnott 10/26/2024||
Bluesky’s more accessible to the general public. I’m on both, though use Mastodon more (partially due to _far_ better third party clients available); it’s a very different crowd.
bowsamic 10/26/2024||
How would you describe Bluesky's crowd vs. Mastodon? I found the latter great for finding interesting developers, musicians, artists, etc.

My X is full of people having constant meltdowns or who are just always fighting others, no one really sharing anything interesting.

Haven't tried bluesky bc it was invite only (I assume it isn't anymore if you say it's accessible) and I didn't really care enough to ask for one from someone.

steveklabnik 10/26/2024||
bsky is open to anyone, and has been for a while now, that’s correct.
jacooper 10/27/2024|||
Sure, if you don't care about sports, news, anything other than tech.

Bluesky literally just started and it already covers more things than mastodon ever did while providing a better UX without stupid technical limitations like not implementing global full text search.

bowsamic 10/29/2024||
Are there artists and musicians on bluesky, or just programmers?
steveklabnik 10/29/2024|||
A lot of artists came over recently because you're not allowed to opt out of Grok anymore.

I haven't seen a ton of musicians.

It's more than just programmers though; lots of news organizations, some government stuff... there just aren't 12M programmers in the world, it's got some variety. Though not everything of course, I know some folks who are still waiting on sports content to show up more, for example.

jacooper 10/30/2024|||
I would say there are more artists and game designers than programmers.

However sports and news content in general is still lacking, but better than mastodon for sure.

scirob 10/26/2024||
People on mastodon are so toxic. I tried to contribute code and content was threatened with lawsuits by people who don't understand that their protocol is explicitly designed for open data
cuu508 10/26/2024|
Can you share a link to where this happened?
CaptainFever 10/26/2024||
See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34400143
dangsux 10/26/2024||
[dead]
maxlin 10/26/2024|
[flagged]
rsynnott 10/26/2024|
I mean, Twitter itself borrowed most of its concepts from either the user base (@ mentions, replies, retweets, quote tweets were all informal behaviours before they were features) or other social media platforms, particularly Tumblr. It is very much a field where doing it well beats being the first.

Of course, if you’re earlier you have network effects, but Carface seems doggedly determined to compensate by driving the existing network away.

maxlin 10/27/2024||
I don't disagree but that's not my point.

The point is, there's little reason to go to the clones, you just lose the network effects, as X is still clearly "the" place to post stuff, and where your identity is the strongest. Which is important given in actuality it's not such a walled garden with authoritarian rule throwing people out like Twitter was. Only when everyone can have their say, you end up with something that ACTUALLY represents the "town square". Blue Sky might also be the town square, but more akin to one of a closed soviet military town.

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