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Posted by lordleft 3/28/2025

How Kerala got rich(aeon.co)
380 points | 299 commentspage 2
mempko 3/28/2025|
Turns out investing in your own people returns dividends. Unfortunately, the current administration is divesting from the American people. DOGE, and it's cutting of federal grants is a direct example of this divestment. What's happening now in the US reminds me a lot of a mixture of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, where the Chicago economists came in and their shock therapy and large divestment decimated the wealth and health of ordinary people.
Ray20 3/28/2025|
>Turns out investing in your own people returns dividends. Unfortunately, the current administration is divesting from the American people.

As we see, in the case of America, these dividends are much larger. So much larger that they are not even comparable to what is described in the article.

>mixture of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, where the Chicago economists came in and their shock therapy and large divestment

But that's not what happened in the USSR. Gorbachev simply make government open and transparent for people, rejected totalitarian oppression, and it immediately became clear that the party had almost zero support.

And since it is impossible to have near-zero support without totalitarian oppression, the tops of the Communist Party (led by Yeltsin) decided to go cash out and simply divided among themselves all the assets under the party's control.

That's it. It had nothing to do with Chicago economist and shock therapy, which was just an excuse for dividing government assets.

And it's not like wealth and health of ordinary people suffered to any significant degree. It's just that before Gorbachev and Yeltsin all the statistics were fake, and people were repressed for contradicting it. But after the coup, no one cared. In fact, the only ones at a loss were middle level party bureaucrats, who did not have any real assets under their control, but occupied an extremely privileged position in the Soviet system and parasitizing on the body of an oppressed society.

achierius 3/31/2025||
Interesting that you suggest they had "almost zero support" when

1. A referendum with the wording

""" Do you consider it necessary to preserve the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics, in which the rights and freedoms of a person of any nationality will be fully guaranteed? """

Got 77.85% of the vote, and the union only collapsed after internal political struggles led to the individual republics pulling out of their own accord.

2. Just five years later, the honest-to-god Communist Party candidate won %40.73 of the votes in an election against the incumbent Yeltsin -- despite such allegations of voter fraud that "At a meeting with opposition leaders in 2012, then-president Dmitry Medvedev was reported to have said, 'There is hardly any doubt who won [the 1996 election]. It was not Boris Nikolaevich Yeltsin.'"

So clearly your statement

> And since it is impossible to have near-zero support without totalitarian oppression

can't be correct, unless you're alleging that Yeltsin was secretly using totalitarian measures to support his opposition in the 1996 election.

> the tops of the Communist Party (led by Yeltsin)

Yeltsin was an anti-Communist, he opposed the leadership of the Communist party. The actual "tops of the Communist Party" were divided between the Gorbachev-led liberalizing faction and the hardline faction, both of whom wanted to preserve the USSR -- but in the wake of the coup attempt by the latter faction, both were discredited and it was Yeltsin and the other regional leaders, not the heads of the central CPUSSR, who came out on top.

> It's just that before Gorbachev and Yeltsin all the statistics were fake, and people were repressed for contradicting it.

This is just conspiratorial thinking. Here, I found the most aggressively western-capitalist source I could think of: https://www.rand.org/pubs/conf_proceedings/CF124.chap4.html -- even Rand Corp. describes a drop of population growth rates from 6-7% to net negative over the course of the liberalization of prices.

dilawar 3/28/2025||
Kerala is also the only state in India where the rural population lives longer (2-3y on average) than the urban population!!
omnibrain 3/28/2025||
Funny seeing Kerala here. Just a few days ago I got a post into my timeline where someone wrote about taking a forest road out of Kerala in the evening and what a bad idea that was, because of Google Maps not working right and wild animals in the woods. That lead me to looking it up on google maps and I noticed something curious: It looks like Kerala has border checkpoints to the surrounding states. Complete with turnpikes. Is this normal in India? Or just Kerala? Are these even border checkpoints? (They are labeled as such on Google Maps, but that could be wrong)
raincom 3/28/2025||
If a check point is in a remote area, it is usually a checkpoint manned by forest officials: illegal logging and other stuff.
basiccalendar74 3/28/2025||
This is normal for most state border in India. They mostly inspect commercial trucks
j0e1 3/29/2025||
One thing I find amusing as a Malayali (aka Keralite) myself is how we tend to get excited seeing other Malayalis. One of the first questions usually is "Where are you from in Kerala?" (or in Romanized Malayalam: naatil evideya?)
_thisdot 3/29/2025|
The camaraderie is amusing! When they banned beef in Bangalore, the entirety of Malayalis there continued to collectively call beef something else and that system worked wonderfully!
NoelJacob 3/28/2025||
Coming from Kerala to Europe for a short Erasmus, I feel here you have to visit a huge chain for buying anything on a discount. What I mean is big supermarket, or electronics or transport chains. Kerala's premature strikes against these were the only reason they didn't grow as Kerala grew. Can't fully say if it's a good thing but it does feel safer not being dependent on a private entities for many basic things.
sriacha 3/28/2025|
Are you saying large chain stores don't exist in Kerala? How are you not dependent upon private entities for basics?
NoelJacob 3/28/2025|||
You can still live comfortably without depending on private (I meant large private) entities in Kerala. Also there are supermarket chains but they haven't overtaken normal non-chain grocery supermarkets. Not even close. Of the top of my head I can list three chains near me and most of my household lives without needing to buy from them and just going to regular stores.

Edit: To add to it. In Italy, you eat pasta for lunch. To buy cheap pasta you go to Pam/Conad/Carrefour/Aldi/Lidl supermarket chain and buy Pam/Conad/Adli/Lidl branded ones as usually they are the cheapest buy vary in quality. But here getting cheap Rice, for lunch, is different. In Italy, to buy basic milk you do the same and probably the cheap whole fat one is branded by the supermarket. Here, you go to the diary, which gets from a collection of local farmers. To buy eggs, you don't go buy supermarket branded eggs, you could pay someone in your neighborhood with animals to supply. I've never seen supermarket branded eggs until I reached the west to be honest.

zozbot234 3/28/2025||
The dirty little secret is that mom-and-pop stores are extremely inefficient compared to big chain businesses. A big business is also a lot more likely to actually pay taxes to the government, and it still manages to beat the mom-and-pop store on efficiency even after accounting for that!
NoelJacob 3/28/2025||
Yes, they are efficient, obviously as economies of scale. Add in consulting and quants and they'll rise in profitability. But the problem is decision making power lies in hands of select few. When you are a too large a corporate, you basically have no oversight over how much you can optimize in exchange for ill social effects. All corporates had humble beginnings, and over time hyper optimization for profits creep in. Maybe in the beginning, the synthetic preservative they add to optimize profits, was below the threshold, but over the years as need for profit and 'growth' grows and, managements and mindsets change, they could very well go above the threshold and, being big now be profitable enough even after they were caught and they had to deal with the repercussions. Well why would a rational actor not squeeze every dollar out of the customer when they can still be profitable even when accounting for the money they could pay as repercussions for fraud? I'm not saying mom-and-pop are defenders of righteousness or smth, but just from watching the news I can say I trust them over corporates, because they are A) are scared of law as they have more to loose as a percentage of what they have than INDIVIDUALS in the corporate B) feel better moral, idk attitude?, towards the customer, mostly and COMPARATIVELY than the corps. Of the top of my head, I think, cooperatives might be the current best solution or some decentralized frameworks/systems for stores considering efficiency vs power concentration.

> pay taxes to the government

Here, at their turnover local stores are exempt from income tax

zozbot234 3/28/2025|||
> When you are a too large a corporate, you basically have no oversight over how much you can optimize in exchange for ill social effects

It's actually easier to have meaningful oversight over a single larger firm than a bunch of local stores. The thing is that what people often refer to as "ill social effects" of large businesses are not proven to any meaningful extent. At least the gain in efficiency is quite real and can be readily ascertained.

NoelJacob 3/28/2025||
So you are saying the individuals (not affiliated to any corporate) in a field are collectively doing/did more harm to people and environment, on purpose, than all the harm corporates in the same field are collectively doing/did, on purpose?

Corporates have power to sway governments/FDA/X in their personal favor (unlike a common individual for his own personal favor). As bigger the power of entity gets to the power of government, more government looses power over it, more at the discretion of its decision makers its users become. Why would a rational actor not do bad for profits if they can get away with it? Why would an entity, with a power, not exercise it, if net benefit to self is positive?

eunos 3/29/2025|||
Mom and Pop shops likely won't invest in softwares for inventory or payrolls or analytics but big chains will. That means the more big chain markets swallowing mom and pop shops more capitals invested for software and other tertiary services. This boost GDP
Gud 3/29/2025||
It may boost GDP, but does that improve the life of the Moms and Pops who are now stacking shelves at the hypermarkets?
eunos 3/29/2025||
It'll give a good life for software developers
goku12 3/29/2025|||
The small shops here are private entities. They're owned by low to mid middle class families - similar to what you might call a 'mom and pop store'. But they're so common around here that we simply call them 'provision stores', 'general stores', etc. There are also small specialty stores like for stationary, agricultural produce, diary and bakery, office work (photocopying, DTP, etc), etc. They usually exist within 5 minutes walking distance of your house. There are even small shops for much rarer stuff like electronics and mechanical components - but they're farther away (my special interest, since I'm an engineer).

They don't have everything - but it's quite possible to live here without having to visit a big chain supermarket. Those chains do exist here and we do use them and online shops like Amazon and Flipkart occasionally for the rare stuff. The point here is that the small shops aren't 'large' private entities. These store owners are in a similar social class as you are and often know you personally. They even help you get the best deals and personally deal with product quality issues. A similar 'middle-class' supply and logistics chain also exists behind them - so it isn't easy for any big player(s) to disrupt and (co-)monopolize the market. They all pay their regular taxes to the local government and spend their earnings in the same local economy. Their economic incentives also align with yours - inflation hurts them as much as it hurts you.

The advantage of this is that multi-billionaire chain owners with their own cartels can't decide when to hoard stuff and drive up profits and inflation. This is very useful in situations like the big-chain-driven post-covid inflation and the current anti-oligarchy protests seen in NA. I was in NA during the post-covid situation. It always felt like a part of that inflation wouldn't have happened if small stores existed everywhere there. Boycotts also work better if you have alternatives. So I made it a point upon return to Kerala to tell everyone how important they are. I shop almost exclusively from them these days.

2511 3/28/2025||
I am not from Kerala but I have spent the last 25 years there. I have family in Kerala. Kerala got rich because of emigration. Sometime during the 80s, Keralites began migrating to gulf in very large numbers. The foreign remittance is the biggest reason why the state is rich. It can be said the proximity to sea and a history of trade with gulf countries enabled Keralites to migrate. And of course, the will and courage of the early emigrants to migrate to a different country.

If we look beyond the foreign remittance, there are quite a few issues in the state. Unemployment is much higher than national average[1] Kerala youth are struggling with the drugs problem, in high numbers.[2] Very little industrial investment because its a state with communist government and not industry friendly. There are towns where every household has someone abroad. Only the elderly are living in those big houses.

[1]https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/education/news/kerala-am... [2] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/kerala-is-in...

the_arun 3/28/2025||
Kerala reminds me of California when it comes to natural landscapes. I really love that place.

Coming literacy, what does that mean? They all know how to read & write in a particular language? OR they have passed minimum undergrad?

darth_avocado 3/28/2025||
The definition of literally rate is the ratio of population over 7 that can read, write and do arithmetic and apply it in their lives. These numbers are over inflated tbh because the standards to measure them are pretty debatable. Kerala may have 90% literacy rate, but the average literacy rate of India is supposed to be 80%+.
leosanchez 3/28/2025|||
A person aged seven and above is considered literate in India if they can read and write with understanding in any language.
harichinnan 3/28/2025||
Literacy mostly means Reading skills. Goes a long way in a poor country with an abysmal record for primary education. Kerala also has a Higher % of school graduation compared to rest of India.
Venkatesh10 3/28/2025||
Never have I ever imagined the state I grew up will end up on the front page of Hacker News. Keralites have a common skill of migrating almost everywhere. They have huge connection with the middle east.
xnx 3/28/2025||
Doesn't a Kerala temple contain in excess of $22 billion worth of gold?
harichinnan 3/28/2025||
Yes. Travancore Cochin remained a princely state and escaped East India company looting. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimdobson/2015/11/13/a-one-tril...
2511 3/28/2025|||
you are correct. Padmanabhan temple apparently has gold worth 22 billion dollars. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmanabhaswamy_Temple_treas...
sva_ 3/28/2025|||
That's crazy, I wonder what led people to 'donate'. Something like monetary indulgence as has been carried out by the catholic church?
anon291 3/29/2025|||
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmanabhaswamy_Temple_treasur...:

> The valuables have been accumulated in the temple over several thousand years, having been donated to the Deity, and subsequently stored in the Temple, by various Dynasties, such as the Cheras, the Pandyas, the Travancore royal family, the Kolathiris, the Pallavas, the Cholas, and many other Kings of both South India and beyond.[10][11][12][13][14][15][16] Most scholars believe that this was accumulated over thousands of years

Remember that most Roman gold ended up in India. India was the main far East recipient and trading partner of Rome, not China (trade with China was mediated by Indian kingdoms). And that was one empire with which South India traded. It's unfortunate that a lot of narratives about India are driven by the North. The South is way more interesting, in my opinion (I'm biased).

YouAreRONGS 3/29/2025|||
> It's unfortunate that a lot of narratives about India are driven by the North. The South is way more interesting, in my opinion (I'm biased).

It's not from North India though. North India is not on the land-based trade routes between the Middle East and the Far East due to mountains along Myannmar.

It's from Central Asia and the Middle East, who's views are often followed by Indian Muslims for political scoring against Non-Muslims. A lot of the people in Central Asia and the Middle East absolutely hate Indians and South Indians, so they often tend to write narratives that avoid India. So something like discussing direct contact between the Middle East and the Far East but avoiding India. If you want to read about the genuine geopolitics of ancient India then read some historic texts from the Far East.

The idea of there being a strong conflict between the north and the south is something driven by corrupt left wing separatist and regionalist politicians in South India, but most North Indians don't think like that.

anon291 3/29/2025||
I am ethnically Indian but not an Indian citizen. I honestly don't really care about Indian politics or religious factionalism. For me, I find the history of my own family interesting, and don't like how 'india' is presented in history books as primarily the gangetic plain when there are hundreds of millions of Indians in other parts who have a related, but different history.

I mean even customs that are 'Indian' in the diaspora are often north indian customs. It's fine, but it'd be like asking a new Yorker to make southern bbq

goku12 3/29/2025|||
It wasn't donated money entirely - at least not in the sense of offerings from regular devotees. They were donations/remittances by the monarchy. The history is that the southern half of Kerala was a kingdom named 'Travancore'. During the establishment of the kingdom, the first king declared himself and his successors to be 'Padmanabhadasa' or 'servants of lord Padmanabha'. Lord Padmanabha is the deity worshiped at this particular temple. The temple was considered as the seat of Travancore's power and therefore a big part of the kingdom's tax revenue ended up there.
tdeck 3/28/2025|||
I don't know if I'm more surprised by the amount of gold, or by the fact that there's still a royal family in India that owns it.
goku12 3/29/2025||
There are a lot of royal families still present in India. But they're all in ceremonial roles and have no constitutional roles or powers like the one in Britain enjoys. They mostly live off their estates (similar to the British royals) or business enterprises.
achuwilson 3/28/2025|||
Yes. It is still locked in the vaults of the temple https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmanabhaswamy_Temple
the_arun 3/28/2025||
Did you mean this temple in Andhrapradesh? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venkateswara_Temple,_Tirumala
sangeeth96 3/28/2025||
Probably referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmanabhaswamy_Temple_treasur...
dartharva 3/28/2025|||
I have visited this temple. The security inside the premises is handled by regular police, but the temple also has a strict dress code.. so you get to see shirtless men in dhotis carrying badges and pistols in cloth holsters. It's really funny to look at.
the_arun 3/28/2025|||
Never knew, this temple also has so much gold. Thanks for sharing
ricksunny 3/28/2025|
I wrote about Kerala during a visit there in 2008. Maybe a backpacking tourist's snapshot in time, but hey it's data - some observations on literacy and cultural value of education passing to the younger generation:

https://walkabout165.blogspot.com/2008/03/maybe-if-i-disable...

(also mentioned in the 3rd image caption of https://walkabout165.blogspot.com/2008/05/retrospective.html , observation on intepreting what wealth means)

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