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Posted by helloworld 3/29/2025

Madison Square Garden's surveillance banned this fan over his T-shirt design(www.theverge.com)
219 points | 89 comments
gorgoiler 3/29/2025|
If they pulled Miller out of the line and only then checked his photo ID, and the allegation is they used facial recognition to trigger this, then that implies they already had his biometrics in their database.

The legal disclaimer shown at the venue implies that the biometrics are collected (and “retained, stored, and converted”) at the venue. That’s clearly only half of the story. They must also be collecting (and retaining, storing, and converting) information about anyone using sources outside the venue.

The implication from chronology of the story is that MSG must have done something like googled Miller, found his LinkedIn bio-pic, and put that in their “safety and security” database?

I think we can conclude therefore that the disclaimer sign is not a quasi-legal disclaimer to let the venue record your face, but in fact a canard to divert your attention from the fact that they have already created records linking your face to your name — records created without your consent and without letting you know they did it.

conradfr 3/29/2025||
They scrap adversarial law firms websites for photos of employees to ban them so yeah.
t0mas88 3/29/2025||
Is that legal? This would be a clear GDPR violation in Europe.

You could probably argue a legitimate interest if you're collecting face recognition data on proven hooligans, but scraping pictures of people that have not been to your venue off a website clearly isn't a legitimate interest for such privacy invasion.

Henchman21 3/29/2025|||
Laws are no longer enforced in the US.
collingreen 3/29/2025|||
I'd amend this to Laws against corporations abusing privacy or consumer wellbeing.
Henchman21 3/29/2025||
That is entirely too narrow. Laws that constrain the government are being ignored. Thats a LOT more than just privacy. Or “consumer wellbeing”, which as a term reviles me — We the People are more than mere consumers — but I take your meaning generally.

Much too narrow. They’re ignoring due process. Just ask anyone not white detained by ICE. (Is that everyone detained by ICE?)

collingreen 3/30/2025||
That's fair - plenty of checks and balances are gone, even the ones that relied mostly on decorum and shame. My expectations were already quite low but I've been surprised just how openly and directly the fundamental rights are being attacked and equally surprised by how many people are happily cheering as it happens.

I like the perspective that we are more than mere consumers. I think that's a valid thing to be clear about although consumer protection as a concept doesn't feel belittling to me as a human (nor would I want it to extend to my entire life anyway).

dkkergoog 3/29/2025|||
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rahimnathwani 3/29/2025|||
If a 3-person law firm is suing you, and the law firm has a web site with photos of its 3 lawyers, it seems reasonable to add those photos to a pinboard at your entrance, so security staff know to look our for those folks, and not to allow them to come into your place of business (unless they arrive for an appointment, e.g. for a deposition).

What if the law firm has thousands of employees and you don't know exactly which ones might be working on your case at any given time? What if your entrance has a high volume of visitors and it's not practical for your security team to stop each of those people for minutes, whilst they check them against a set of thousands of photos?

mixmastamyk 3/29/2025||
Speculating but likely these beforehand records are added manually.
neilv 3/29/2025||
> “Frank Miller Jr. made threats against an MSG executive on social media and produced and sold merchandise that was offensive in nature,” Mikyl Cordova, executive vice president of communications and marketing for the company, said in an emailed statement.

If he made threats, what were the threats?

If he didn't make threats, does this written statement, from a communications executive, to a journalist, intended for news publication, constitute libel?

yard2010 3/29/2025||
Yes.
zonkerdonker 3/29/2025||
I'm not a lawyer by any means, but I don't see how it wouldn't be.

But realistically, how worth it would it be for this graphic designer to battle a narcissistic, petty billionaire in court?

US civil court is truly fucked. Criminal as well, for that matter. Ok, the entire judicial branch really. And the executive branch, and legislative, law enforcement, public health, education....

As an aside, what's the easiest country in the EU for immigration?

t0mas88 3/29/2025|||
Netherlands if you qualify as a knowledge worker, which is super easy for anyone with a university degree. This could change since the new government isn't very enthusiastic about it, but for now it's a straight "Welcome and here is a 30% tax break for your first 5 years" as long as you meet a quite low minimum income number. And even lower if you come in on a student visum first, they recognise that a starter job is lower paid.
ben_w 3/29/2025||||
> As an aside, what's the easiest country in the EU for immigration?

The one(s) whose language(s) you already speak, unless you're rich enough for an investor visa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_investor_programs#In...

(While Germany may be tempting especially with all the English used in tourist areas, be aware it's not for nothing that native German speakers use in real life a phrase which translates as "The German language is difficult").

Most of the EU, but not Denmark or Ireland, also theoretically have the Blue Card scheme; but I say "theoretically" because that's a bureaucratic streamlining, the actual granting is still done at national level and from what I've heard different countries grant them at different rates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Card_(European_Union)

Valodim 3/29/2025||
Actually had to think about what phrase you meant here. For other readers' benefit, it is "Deutsche Sprache, schwere Sprache", which is indeed a known phrase (with the obvious direct translation)
Livanskoy 4/1/2025||||
Russia is easy to immigrate to for anyone sharing traditional values. Rich culture, English-friendly, big opportunities for specialists. Weather is not perfect, but the Global Warming is working on it. One of the last islands of sanity in those wild times.

I've seen another American Village project near Moscow a few days ago, they do most of the hard work for you and help with the formalities. Houses are nice too. Not my cup of tea personally — I'm more of a city dweller — but the people there looked happy.

pjc50 3/29/2025||||
> easiest country in the EU for immigration?

Since the Mediterranean crisis and the Ukraine crisis: none. Although Ireland won't impose a language requirement so you might start there.

sieabahlpark 3/29/2025|||
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userbinator 3/29/2025||
His behavior was disrespectful and disruptive and in violation of our code of conduct.

Certainly not the first time a vague and imposing "code of conduct" has caused trouble.

hettygreen 3/29/2025||
I'm sure this is just an isolated incident and we won't see anything like this happening in the future.
hello_computer 3/29/2025||
If somebody did that to my kid, I wouldn’t be enjoying any shows there, ever. Absolute cattle.
acomjean 3/29/2025|
They seem to get away with it. The fact the did it to a lawyer preciously. If they had to pay millions in damages for this nonsense, this would stop.

The fact that the “security” team is going through online images to feed into there facial recognition banning software is kind of weird and creepy.

I look forward to continuing to not going to MSG and company, as they are far far away from me.

Valodim 3/29/2025||
> The fact that the “security” team is going through online images to feed into there facial recognition banning software is kind of weird and creepy.

Why would any team go through anything? I'm sure can just ask AI to maintain a list of offenders, fully automated. So much more efficient.

ungreased0675 3/29/2025||
It feels like this should be illegal.
Arcuru 3/29/2025||
Is there an image of the shirt?

I assume that embedded Instagram post is a pic of the shirt, but I don't have Instagram so it's a big blank box with a link to "View this post on Instagram".

It's ironic that on this post about a large corporation abusing its power, they are requiring the user to use Instagram to get the full context..

Valodim 3/29/2025|
It is a fairly plain shirt with a basketball design that reads "Ban Dolan"
cyberge99 3/31/2025||
Congress should pass bipartisan legislation that people in this situation, albeit rare, get a full refund at a minimum, or at least be able to predetermine if they’re banned.
conover 3/30/2025||
Isn’t this the deal we’ve made? You can, legally, deny someone access to private property for any non-protected reason.

On the other hand, if the private property was constructed with public monies, which MSG probably was, that’s an interesting debate. Should the involvement of public money confer first amendment protections of some sort? I think it should.

Edit: You can’t use “my” money to build something and then ban me from it because I said something (non-protected) about the CEO of the company that owns it.

try_the_bass 3/29/2025|
I don't understand why there's so much focus on facial recognition on this article?

The guy's name was known from social media, and his name was on his ticket, presumably. He was then asked for his ID to verify his identity (confirm he was the person on the list), and then kicked out.

I don't see where in that any kind of facial recognition was necessary?

Henchman21 3/29/2025||
IIRC, he didn’t even buy the ticket? At no point was his name used in the transaction, so how exactly did they know this person was at MSG in the first place? The conjecture is facial recognition.
try_the_bass 3/29/2025||
> Miller says that after he scanned his digital ticket, but before he went through security, a person working at Radio City stopped the line, pulled him aside, and asked him for his ID to verify who he was.

Most venues require a name on the ticket, and many will validate that the person holding the ticket is the person who is named on the ticket.

This is a very common anti-scalping measure.

longdustytrail 3/30/2025|||
This is absolutely not true in my experience (MLB, NFL, NBA). It’s very very common for one person to buy tickets for their whole party (this is how you make sure you’re sitting together) and there’s no part of the purchase or checkin flow where you’re even asked for the names of the people in your party.

Maybe for Taylor swift tickets or something they have stronger rules but it’s definitely not true as a matter of course in American major professional sports that each ticket holder needs to have their identity on file

try_the_bass 3/30/2025||
Ah, my experience is mostly around music or convention tickets, both of which often require verifying identity at the door to prevent scalping. They generally also make transferring tickets a pain, which is sad when someone in your group inevitably changes plans.
_proofs 3/30/2025|||
this is just downright false unless a transfer occurred or you are trying to get into a venue's pavilion, and security's being extra detailed.

source: literally seen quite a few hundreds of concerts.

moioci 3/29/2025||
There must be many thousands of people named Frank Miller, Jr. So something in addition to the name had to be used.
try_the_bass 3/29/2025||
That's why they pulled him aside and asked for his ID?
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