Posted by Fred34 4/3/2025
The shame of it was that a PC of that era had a super short useful life. Now we think nothing of keeping computers for 5 years or more; they're just so powerful that for most regular human tasks, there's no need for the kind of upgrade treadmill that dominated computing 25 years ago. After 3 years, though, the 560Z was almost unusable -- it had a TINY hard drive, and limited RAM. Windows was getting fatter and slower. But the physical computer itself was in GREAT shape -- even after years of heavy travel, it bore none of the crappy wear and tear I'd associate with colleagues' Dells (e.g.) later. I kept it on a shelf for a long time because it was so solid and pleasing that I couldn't bear to part with it despite its basic uselessness.
I didn't realize it at the time, but the 560Z was also my last Windows laptop. Because my job back then was mostly Office docs, and because Win98 was so awful, I shifted to a Mac when the 560 was done, and I've been there ever since.
I've only ever personally owned second hand Thinkpads and they're so great. But you should get the newest, reasonably priced one you can. There are so many affordable T480s/T470s out there or even the newer T14 models. They're still very serviceable and many still allow expansion with unsoldered RAM.
That's my only personal laptop, to the last detail. What are you doing that makes it feel slow?
I might upgrade to a x270 for the USB-C charging and a full-HD display, but only when this one dies. Which might take another decade...
Of course, had to replace the hard drive once or twice, replaced the whole motherboard once[0], and even though it's 64-bit, the CPU arch (Westmere) lacks some instructions that make some things non-functional (MongoDB, some Steam games don't start), and I had to limit the CPU frequency so it doesn't go into thermal shutdown. Nonetheless it's a joy to use still, and I boot it up with pleasure every time...
Thinking when will I pull the trigger on a Framework, though at least I don't feel the pressure too much just yet. :)
[0]: https://gergely.imreh.net/blog/2022/07/an-open-heart-motherb...
I'm ok with this... maybe I'm odd? I view my laptops like I view my cars: I expect them to be replaced after a period of time. I'm NOT trying to maintain my old 2002 Honda Civic, and I'm NOT trying to maintain my older Macbooks. Once they leave Apple Care, I expect maybe another 12 to 18 months out of them, and then I move on.
My 2004 Pontiac Vibe is the newest car I've owned -- drove a few GM cars and one Nissan into 200-300kmi territory before that. Saved me tens of thousands of dollars and got me where I needed to go.
Suppose that's consistent with me typing this on an old upgraded MBP.
I used a thinkpad X200 back in 2014 or so and it got completely destroyed due to a spill. I replaced the memory, keyboard etc. but was unable to get it to work again. Also, the monitor had developed a few dead scanlines so I decided to buy another one. This was my primary work machine so I needed something quickly. I got another x230 off ebay. It was a piece used for demos at shows so it was refurbished. Threw Debian onto it and started work 2014. I used it straight till 2022 or so. It was my primary machine. I replaced the battery, added RAM. Then the fan got damaged and the front plastic plating got cracked so it was no longer presentable. I bought an X1 carbon but gave the laptop to my son. We bought a fan, thermal paste and some plastic parts for the casing, a new battery etc., watched a few youtube videos and fixed it up. It's still running and they play casual games on it. It's now atleast 10 years old and still going strong.
It's a very strong machine with great longevity. Though I feel that the newer ones are not as good as the old and the X1 is definitely less repairable than its older cousins.
Lenovo made this Laptop worse than 7 years ago, and it's their top line model for > 2000$. It's such a shame and sad to see. There's no very good alternative with integrated touchscreen and stylus.
My current workstation setup includes 22cores/44threads decade old xeon plus four decade old Titan X GPUs with a total of 48GB VRAM, which is enough to run a decent local AI model, but I’m finally wanting more capacity. I haven’t been this interested to upgrade in a decade. NVIDIA’s new DGX-class offerings might convince me, depending on pricing and supply, although waiting a few more years to let things stabilize could be what I do. Still, it’s an exciting time for hardware, especially now that there’s a tangible reason to invest in more power for local AI.
I have a desktop with a Titan XP (somewhat similar to your Titan X). If you look up LLM performance however these older GPUs (even with enough VRAM) do quite poorly. They still hold up great for gaming and many other GPU hungry tasks though.
Personally I think a really cool setup would be something like a modern MacBook Pro with a ton of RAM and high core CPU that could be plugged into an external GPU enclosure when needed. Depending on LLM needs you could be upgrading the external GPU and still use the power efficient laptop on the go.
They are both fantastic laptops but have clearly different use cases.
My Macook is my browsing/YouTube/music/research/photo editing machine. It's fantastic at those things. It also integrates into FaceTime and iMessage which means I don't have to pull out my phone all the time.
My P16s is my work laptop. I can disappear into it for 5 hours straight writing code. I'm either in Cursor or the terminal most of that time with a little browser use. And hyprland is freaking gorgeous, fast, and incredibly stable. I don't get nearly as good a development experience on my Macbook, mostly because so much of its navigation is based upon the trackpad vs. the keyboard in Hyprland.
So, I enjoy both and each has their place. I think my only complaint about the P16s is while it has an extremely high res OLED display, it's not as bright as I'd prefer.
hyprland is so much better than anything else I don't understand why it's not more popular on HN
That said, I maintain a G4 Cube running an outdated OS to play Sim City and Sim Tower. And it's "upgraded" as much as possible.
****JavaScript not included
Until recently, my daily driver was the T500 (the larger screen version of the T400 in the article), and it worked fine for everything except GPU.
(I actually downgraded to the T500 years ago, because I was pissed off about the Intel Management Engine.)
Recently, I upgraded from the T500 to the T520, which is the last ThinkPad with a non-chiclet keyboard. It works fine for everything except GPU and fitting inside many backpacks.
With ThinkPads of this era, you want to get a high-spec variant of the model (e.g., top-res IPS display), and then make the following upgrades:
* SSD
* run Linux
* run uBlock Origin (and block most of the third-party surveillance, which hurts performance) (JS runs fine, so long as you're not running multiple dueling adtech slimeballs' intimate mouse trackers)
* max out the RAM (you don't need that much for Linux, unless you're using an exceptionally bloated desktop option, but it's cheap, and you can use it to keep filesystems like ~/.cache off your SSD )
* (optional) replace the CPU with a more optimal one for power draw or heat, or maybe for compute (these are socketed in most models)
* (optional, not for the faint of heart) install Coreboot, and then you have more WiFi upgrade options
I have a T430 with the T420's keyboard and it lasted me 7 years of daily use before battery life became too big of an issue for me (even with a single DDR3L RAM module and a slice battery), so I put it aside. The typing experience was really excellent.
Upgrading the CPU to a quad-core model (ideally one that consumes 35W over 45W) is one of the best upgrades to make for anyone still using these machines.
(Last time I looked, it had the air of the XDA-style culture: "To root your phone, download this package from a `.ru` piracy site, run the `.exe` on your PC, then install and run the closed blobs on your phone, including rooting and replacing your bootloader with one, we know you will trust us." Though, in their defense, if they were organized crime, they would probably make an effort to look more legitimate, rather than gratuitously suspicious. And all the forum comments were always lapping it up, appearing to be doing reckless things, while removing much of the demand and contributors for more-credible efforts.)
You can manually recreate the process of building a patch for the embedded controller instead of just following instructions: https://github.com/hamishcoleman/thinkpad-ec. Here's the presentation by the author himself at linux.conf.au (what used to be the biggest local Linux conference for those of us in Australia and NZ): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzmm87oVQ6c. This is of course not supported by Lenovo.
Unlocking the BIOS is definitely more like what you described. It's the price to pay for freely playing around with processor power limits, getting AES-NI instruction set support, etc. I have not checked since 2019, so there might be a clearer way.
There's also the W520, which looks like a T520, but is set up for a larger PSU, and had quad-core and better GPUs as factory options. (I own a few each of T520 and W520, but don't like the huge power bricks of the W. So I'm using the T as daily driver, until I really need something in the W.)
We could go back a little more and find a great PII 400. I had one with a CL 3Dfx Voodoo2 12MB, though I forget the 2D card.
It played MP3s REALLY well! As long as that is all you wanted to do because anything else would introduce skips and pops.
I like old machines, but I would hardly call them day-to-day usable with modern apps, and I would question the underlying hardware/firmware security the rest of the way.
If you're going to disagree, please give an example of something you think doesn't work.
Yes, if I don't have to keep multiple browser windows, video calls, Slack, and whathaveyou open, then I too can get by with an ancient Thinkpad. If it is enough for you, then all the power to you. I am sincerely supportive of the fact that you can stick it to today's consumerist, disposable tech industry.
Here I am on my T480s with 40 GB memory (8 is soldered) and the highest tier CPU for the Thinkpad gen (apparently these are soldered on too), and it's a drag. I'm trying to scrape by until I can start thinking about saving up for a new Framework.
That says more about how unoptimized are today's applications than the capabilities of the machine