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Posted by Tenoke 4/3/2025

AI 2027(ai-2027.com)
949 points | 621 commentspage 4
eob 4/4/2025|
An aspect of these self-improvement thought experiments that I’m willing to tentatively believe.. but want more resolution on, is the exact work involved in “improvement”.

Eg today there’s billions of dollars being spent just to create and label more data, which is a global act of recruiting, training, organization, etc.

When we imagine these models self improving, are we imagining them “just” inventing better math, or conducting global-scale multi-company coordination operations? I can believe AI is capable of the latter, but that’s an awful lot of extra friction.

acureau 4/4/2025|
This is exactly what makes this scenario so absurd to me. The authors don't even attempt to describe how any of this could realistically play out. They describe sequence models and RLAIF, then claim this approach "pays off" in 2026. The paper they link to is from 2022. RLAIF also does not expand the information encoded in the model, it is used to align the output with a set of guidelines. How could this lead to meaningful improvement in a model's ability to do bleeding-edge AI research? Why wouldn't that have happened already?

I don't understand how anyone takes this seriously. Speculation like this is not only useless, but disingenuous. Especially when it's sold as "informed by trend extrapolations, wargames, expert feedback, experience at OpenAI, and previous forecasting successes". This is complete fiction which, at best, is "inspired by" the real world. I question the motives of the authors.

qwertox 4/3/2025||
That is some awesome webdesign.
nmilo 4/3/2025||
The whole thing hinges on the fact that AI will be able to help with AI research

How will it come up with the theoretical breakthroughs necessary to beat the scaling problem GPT-4.5 revealed when it hasn't been proven that LLMs can come up with novel research in any field at all?

cavisne 4/3/2025|
Scaling transformers has been basically alchemy, the breakthroughs aren’t from rigorous science they are from trying stuff and hoping you don’t waste millions of dollars in compute.

Maybe the company that just tells an AI to generate 100s of random scaling ideas, and tries them all is the one that will win. That company should probably be 100 percent committed to this approach also, no FLOPs spent on ghibli inference.

827a 4/3/2025||
Readers should, charitably, interpret this as "the sequence of events which need to happen in order for OpenAI to justify the inflow of capital necessary to survive".

Your daily vibe coding challenge: Get GPT-4o to output functional code which uses Google Vertex AI to generate a text embedding. If they can solve that one by July, then maybe we're on track for "curing all disease and aging, brain uploading, and colonizing the solar system" by 2030.

Philpax 4/4/2025||
Haven't tested this (cbf setting up Google Cloud), but the output looks consistent with the docs it cites: https://chatgpt.com/share/67efd449-ce34-8003-bd37-9ec688a11b...

You may consider using search to be cheating, but we do it, so why shouldn't LLMs?

827a 4/4/2025||
I should have specified "nodejs", as that has been my most recent difficulty. The challenge, specifically, with that prompt is that Google has at least four nodejs libraries that are all seem at least reasonably capable of accessing text embedding models on vertex ai (@google-ai/generativelanguage, @google-cloud/vertexai, @google-cloud/aiplatform, and @google/genai), and they've also published breaking changes multiple times to all of them. So, in my experience, GPT not only will confuse methods from one of their libraries with the other, but will also sometimes hallucinate answers only applicable to older versions of the library, without understanding which version its giving code for. Once it has struggled enough, it'll sometimes just give up and tell you to use axios, but the APIs it recommends axios calls for are all their protobuf APIs; so I'm not even sure if that would work.

Search is totally reasonable, but in this case: Even Google's own documentation on these libraries is exceedingly bad. Nearly all the examples they give for them are for accessing the language models, not text embedding models; so GPT will also sometimes generate code that is perfectly correct for accessing one of the generative language models, but will swap e.g the "model: gemini-2.0" parameter for "model: text-embedding-005"; which also does not work.

slaterbug 4/4/2025|||
You’ve intentionally hamstrung your test by choosing an inferior model though.
827a 4/4/2025||
o1 fails at this, likely because it does not seem to have access to search, so it is operating on outdated information. It recommends the usage of methods that have been removed by Google in later versions of the library. This is also, to be fair, a mistake gpt-4o can make if you don't explicitly tell it to search.

o3-mini-high's output might work, but it isn't ideal: It immediately jumps to recommending avoiding all google cloud libraries and directly issuing a request to their API with fetch.

mullingitover 4/3/2025||
These predictions are made without factoring in the trade version of the Pearl Harbor attack the US just initiated on its allies (and itself, by lobotomizing its own research base and decimating domestic corporate R&D efforts with the aforementioned trade war).

They're going to need to rewrite this from scratch in a quarter unless the GOP suddenly collapses and congress reasserts control over tariffs.

fire_lake 4/4/2025||
If you genuinely believe this, why on earth would you work for OpenAI etc even in safety / alignment?

The only response in my view is to ban technology (like in Dune) or engage in acts of terror Unabomber style.

creatonez 4/4/2025||
> The only response in my view is to ban technology (like in Dune) or engage in acts of terror Unabomber style.

Not far off from the conclusion of others who believe the same wild assumptions. Yudkowsky has suggested using terrorism to stop a hypothetical AGI -- that is, nuclear attacks on datacenters that get too powerful.

Kinrany 4/6/2025||
That's war, not terrorism
b3lvedere 4/4/2025||
Most people work for money. As long as money is necessary to survive and prosper, people will work for it. Some of the work may not align with their morals and ethics, but in the end the money still wins.

Banning will not automatically erase the existence and possibilty of things. We banned the use of nuclear weapons, yet we all know they exist.

nfc 4/4/2025||
Something I ponder in the context of AI alignment is how we approach agents with potentially multiple objectives. Much of the discussion seems focused on ensuring an AI pursues a single goal. Which seems to be a great idea if we are trying to simplify the problem but I'm not sure how realistic it is when considering complex intelligences.

For example human motivation often involves juggling several goals simultaneously. I might care about both my own happiness and my family's happiness. The way I navigate this isn't by picking one goal and maximizing it at the expense of the other; instead, I try to balance my efforts and find acceptable trade-offs.

I think this 'balancing act' between potentially competing objectives may be a really crucial aspect of complex agency, but I haven't seen it discussed as much in alignment circles. Maybe someone could point me to some discussions about this :)

throw310822 4/4/2025||
My issue with this is that it's focused on one single, very detailed narrative (the battle between China and the US, played on a timeframe of mere months), while lacking any interesting discussion of other consequences of AI: what its impact is going to be on the job markets, employment rates, GDPs, political choices... Granted, if by this narrative the world is essentially ending two/ three years from now, then there isn't much time for any of those impacts to actually take place- but I don't think this is explicitly indicated either. If I am not mistaken, the bottom line of this essay is that, in all cases, we're five years away from the Singularity itself (I don't care what you think about the idea of Singularity with its capital S but that's what this is about).
pingou 4/4/2025||
Considering that each year that passes, technology offer us new ways to destroy ourselves, and gives another chance for humanity to pick a black ball, it seems to me like the only way to save ourselves is to create a benevolent AI to supervise us and neutralize all threads.

There are obviously big risks with AI, as listed in the article, but the genie is out of the bottle anyway, even if all countries agreed to stop AI development, how long would that agreement last? 10 years? 20? 50? Eventually powerful AIs will be developed, if that is possible (which I believe it is, and I didn't think I'd see the current stunning development in my lifetime, I may not see AGI but I'm sure it'll get there eventually).

dr_dshiv 4/3/2025|
But, I think this piece falls into a misconception about AI models as singular entities. There will be many instances of any AI model and each instance can be opposed to other instances.

So, it’s not that “an AI” becomes super intelligent, what we actually seem to have is an ecosystem of blended human and artificial intelligences (including corporations!); this constitutes a distributed cognitive ecology of superintelligence. This is very different from what they discuss.

This has implications for alignment, too. It isn’t so much about the alignment of AI to people, but that both human and AI need to find alignment with nature. There is a kind of natural harmony in the cosmos; that’s what superintelligence will likely align to, naturally.

ddp26 4/4/2025||
Check out the sidebar - they expect tens of thousands of copies of their agents collaborating.

I do agree they don't fully explore the implications. But they do consider things like coordination amongst many agents.

dr_dshiv 4/4/2025||
It’s just funny, because there are hundreds of millions of instances of ChatGPT running all the time. Each chat is basically an instance, since it has no connection to all the other chats. I don’t think connecting them makes sense due to privacy reasons.

And, each chat is not autonomous but integrated with other intelligent systems.

So, with more multiplicity, I think thinks work differently. More ecologically. For better and worse.

popalchemist 4/3/2025||
For now.
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