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Posted by participant3 4/3/2025

An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip(theaiunderwriter.substack.com)
1503 points | 898 commentspage 11
timewizard 4/3/2025|
> Still, the near perfect mimicry is an uncomfortable reminder that AI is getting better at copying and closer to

I completely disagree. It's not getting "better." It always just copied. That's all it /can/ do. How anyone expected novel outputs from this technology is beyond me.

It's highly noticeable if you do a minimal analysis, but all modern "AI" tools are just copyright thiefs. They're just there to whitewash away liability from blatantly stealing someone else's content.

jMyles 4/3/2025|
> It's not getting "better." It always just copied. That's all it /can/ do

That's true of all the best artists ever.

> They're just there to whitewash away liability from blatantly stealing someone else's content.

That's because that's not a thing. Ownership of "content" is a legal fiction invented to give states more control over creativity. Nobody who copies bytes which represent my music is a "thief". To be a thief, they'd need to, you know, come to my house and steal something.

When someone copies or remixes my music, I'm often not even aware that it has occurred. It's hard to imagine how that can be cast as genuine theft.

janalsncm 4/3/2025|||
> That's true of all the best artists ever.

Just to play Devil’s advocate for a moment, why should we require human artists to be held to the same standards as automated software? We can make whatever rules we want to.

A human might implicitly copy, but they are not infinitely scalable. If I draw a picture that in some way resembles Buzz Lightyear I am much less of a threat to Disney than an always-available computer program with a marginal cost of zero.

jMyles 4/3/2025||
> why should we require human artists to be held to the same standards as automated software?

Isn't this the same question as, "why should we allow general purpose computing?" If the technology of our age is our birthright, don't we have the right to engage whatever mathematics we find inspiring with its aid?

> If I draw a picture that in some way resembles Buzz Lightyear I am much less of a threat to Disney than an always-available computer program with a marginal cost of zero.

...that sounds like a good argument in favor of the always-available computer program.

janalsncm 4/4/2025||
> Isn't this the same question as, "why should we allow general purpose computing?"

I don’t think so? It’s not illegal to call random people on your phone, but if you do it millions of times per day with a computer it can be illegal.

jMyles 4/4/2025||
It seems to me that harassment is similarly offensive regardless of the degree of automation.

...and it's not obvious that transmitting bytes (within frequency and bandwidth protocols) is ever justly criminal; they are trivial to ignore.

IAmBroom 4/3/2025||||
OK, you're plunging deep into the ethos of IP piracy, and staking your claim that "None exists." If that is deemed TRUE, then there's nothing to ever discuss about AI... or animated pornography where a well-known big-eared mouse bangs a Kryptonian orphan wearing a cape.

The reality of our current international laws, going back centuries, disagrees. And most artists disagree.

jMyles 4/3/2025||
> The reality of our current international laws, going back centuries, disagrees

Perhaps I need a bit of education here, but have there been _international_ laws regarding intellectual property for centuries?!

dragonwriter 4/3/2025||
> Perhaps I need a bit of education here, but have there been _international_ laws regarding intellectual property for centuries?!

AFAICT, the first major international IP treaties were in the 1880s (the Paris Convention on Intellectual Property Rights in 1883 and the Berne Convention covering copyrights in 1886; so only ~140 years.)

apersona 4/4/2025||||
> Ownership of "content" is a legal fiction invented to give states more control over creativity.

1. I hate the argument of "legal fiction" because the whole concept of law itself is a "fiction" invented that gives states more control. But I imagine you wouldn't want to live in a "lawless" society, would you?

2. Can you please explain how ownership of content gives states more control over creativity? There are so many way better methods of control a state can do (state-approved media, just banning books, propaganda) that this sounds like a stretch.

3. Alot of mainstream media is underdog rebels beating an Empire, and ownership of content definitely stops the spread of that idea.

jMyles 4/5/2025||
1. I don't think that is necessarily so. We can look at the universe we're given for some obvious fundamental physical and mathematical laws. As sure as gravity, bytes can be copied. It's just part of the universe we live in. Legislation in resistance to that requires these complex legal fictions. I don't think all legal fictions are bad; but those that tell a story that plainly contradicts fundamental laws of mathematics seem to always produce unjust outcomes.

2. Of course states can outright ban content, but the facade of protecting the poor artist gives enormous political cover. Saying, "You can't create that content because it is subversive and likely to convince people that the state is superfluous in the internet age" is just a much more honest (and politically impossible) approach - saying instead "you can't create that because it infringers on someone else's property" makes it sound like there's an attempt to serve justice.

3. Can you say more about this?

dragonwriter 4/3/2025||||
> Ownership of "content" is a legal fiction invented to give states more control over creativity.

Ownership is a legal fiction invented because it is perceived to encourage behavior that is seen as desirable; this is no more true of ownership of intellectual property or other intangible personal property than it is of tangible personal property or real estate.

ls612 4/3/2025||
He has a point that in a society with strong legal protections on freedom of expression, copyright is one of the main tools the state has to stop expression that is deleterious to the ruling class.
dragonwriter 4/3/2025||
> He has a point that in a society with strong legal protections on freedom of expression, copyright is one of the main tools the state has to stop expression that is deleterious to the ruling class.

If the State wishes to prevent expression that is deleterious to the ruling class, it will simply not strongly protect freedom of expression. "Legal protection" isn't an exogenous factor that the State responds to, it is a description of the actions of the State.

jMyles 4/4/2025||
Of course; I don't think anybody disputes that.

But the political cover of "but think of the poor artists!" is used as a cudgel for situations where "we prefer to censor Bob!" is unpalatable.

ls612 4/5/2025||
Every meme in history could be classified as a “derivative work” and DMCA’ed.
kelnos 4/3/2025|||
> Ownership of "content" is a legal fiction [...] To be a thief, they'd need to, you know, come to my house and steal something.

That's just a legal fiction invented so people can pretend to own physical objects even though we should all know that in this world you can never truly own anything.

Everything we do or protect is made up. You've just drawn the arbitrary line in the sand as to what can be "owned" in a different place than where other people might draw it.

jMyles 4/3/2025||
Well, one rudimentary difference is that bytes can be (and seem wont to be) copied, whereas if you steal my jeans, I'm standing there in my underwear.
jeisc 4/4/2025||
are we creating a life with AI or are we creating a slave?
menzoic 4/4/2025||
Paywall?
psychoslave 4/3/2025||
Well, property is theft, as we all know.

Unlike what they name in physics, laws in juristic field are not a given by the cosmos. That's all human fantasy, and generally not enacted by the most altruistic and benevolent wills.

Call me back when we have no more humble humans dying from cold, hunger and war, maybe I'll have some extra compassion to spend on soulless megacorps which pretend they can own the part of our brain into which they inject their propaganda and control what we are permitted to do starting from that.

jordigh 4/4/2025||
> copywritten

This syntactic mistake is driving me nuts in the article is driving me nuts. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of what the the word means.

It's "copyright". It's about the rights to copy. The past participle is "copyrighted", someone has already claimed the rights to copy it, so you can't also have those rights. The rights belong to someone else. If you remember that copyright is about rights that are exclusive to someone and that you don't have them, then you wouldn't make such a syntax error as "copywritten".

The homophone "copywriting" is about take a sales copy (that is, an ad) and writing it. It's about creating an advertisement. Copywritten means you've gone around to creating an ad. As an eggcorn (a fake etymology created after the fact in order to explain the misspelling or syntax error), I assume it's understood as copying anything, and then writing it down, a sort of eggcornical synonym of "copy-paste".

TeMPOraL 4/4/2025||
I wish I wrote an article like this two days ago, when on a whim I asked ChatGPT to create something similar to a regular meme I just saw on Facebook:

Me: Can you make me a meme image with Julian Bashir in a shuttlecraft looking up as if looking through the image to see what's above it, and the caption at the top of the image says, "Wait, what?".

ChatGPT: proceeds to generate a near-perfect reproduction of the character played by Alexander Siddig, with the final image looking almost indistinguishable from a screencap of a DS9 episode

In a stroke of meta-irony, my immediate reaction was exactly the same as portrayed by the just generated image. Wait, WHAT?

Long story short, I showed this around, had my brother asking if I'm not pulling his leg (I only now realized that this was Tuesday, April 1st!), so I proceeded to generate some more examples, which I won't describe since (as I also just now realized) ChatGPT finally lets you share chats with images, so you can all see the whole session here: https://chatgpt.com/share/67ef8a84-0cd0-8012-82bd-7bbba741bb....

My conclusion: oops, OpenAI relaxed safeguards so you can reproduce likeness of real people if you name a character they played on a live-action production. Surely that wasn't intended, because you're not supposed to reproduce likeness of real people?

My brother: proceeds to generate memes involving Donald Trump, Elon Musk, Gul Dukat and Weyoun.

Me: gpt4o-bashir-wait-what.jpg

I missed the window to farm some Internet karma on this, but I'm still surprised that OpenAI lets the model generate likeness of real politicians and prominent figures, and that this wasn't yet a front-page story on worldwide news as far as I know.

EDIT:

That's still only the second most impressive thing I find about this recent update. The most impressive for me is that, out of all image generation models I tested, including all kinds of Stable Diffusion checkpoints and extra LoRAs, this is the first one that can draw a passable LCARS interface if you ask for it.

I mean, drawing real people is something you have to suppress in those models; but https://chatgpt.com/share/67ef8edb-73dc-8012-bd20-93cffba99f... is something no other model/service could do before. Note: it's not just reproducing the rough style (which every other model I tested plain refused to) - it does it near-perfectly, while also designing a half-decent interface for the task. I've since run some more txt2img and img2img tests; it does both style and functional design like nothing else before.

VagabundoP 4/4/2025||
Copyrights and Trademarks were already a mess and now we have AI built on top of that mess.

The whole thing should be public domained and we just start fresh. /s

pinoy420 4/3/2025||
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dylanmulvaney 4/4/2025|
Do you do ChatGPT illustration request-type headlines now?
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