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Posted by PaulHoule 4/3/2025

Drag racers are ditching superchargers for scuba-style tanks and compressed air(www.thedrive.com)
57 points | 93 commentspage 2
PaulHoule 4/7/2025|
Amazed it didn't happen earlier. For a long time it's been seen that an economical way to store energy is to store compressed air in a cavern and feed it into a gas-fired turbine in lieu of turbocharging: see https://urbanao.com/post/compressed-air-energy-storage-caes-...
potato3732842 4/7/2025|
It didn't happen because like everything else that the peanut gallery deems "obvious" the actual pros and cons of implementing it didn't pencil out until recently.

This was tried in the 1950s and 1960s. IDK why it didn't make the cut then. Probably cumulative weight of tanks. It takes A LOT of air to run an engine.

rkagerer 4/7/2025||
I noticed the tank in the article's photo looks like carbon fiber wrapped aluminum. Those are noticeably lighter than the pure aluminum or steel tanks common in the 60's. (Source: Have carried each on my back as a volunteer firefighter)
danielsokil 4/7/2025||
I planned to implement this system in a project car years ago, but never got to it. Do have a parts list, and the overall cost is quite reasonable. My goal focuses on in-vehicle recharging rather than tank-swapping approach.

https://gist.github.com/s0kil/9bd6815ea2ab4e65a786c6382a5bfa...

DrNosferatu 4/8/2025||
Why not compressed pure oxygen?

Had this idea since the 90s, but no racing team listened to me just because I was a kid in school.

00N8 4/8/2025||
You'd get better energy density that way, but I think it's offset by worse efficiency & more damage to the engine. The inert gas fraction (N2, CO2, H2O) provides a useful working fluid to convert combustion heat to force pushing on the piston. Burning pure O2 would mean a lot more heat is needed for the same amount of force. Higher peak temperatures & more available oxygen will tend to create hotspots & knock/pre-detonation, & possibly erosion of the cylinder wall & piston from directly burning the metal.

Using nitrous or cool compressed air keeps most of the benefits while mitigating the problems of using pure O2.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 4/8/2025|||
Wikipedia says uncited that N2O produces heat when it decomposes into nitrogen and oxygen, but that's the opposite of other comments saying that cold oxygen is better because it's denser
DrNosferatu 4/8/2025||
Compressed - cold - pure oxygen, that is.

Held in a lightweight composite thermic bottle.

droopyEyelids 4/8/2025||
These tanks are called “SCBA” self contained breathing apparatus… no “u” for underwater.

They’re what firefighters use.

hydrogen7800 4/7/2025||
This is pretty smart. Why carry the compressor and intercooler with you? Save the mass and complexity, as well as shifting the energy required to compress the air to a device off the car.
hoseja 4/9/2025||
Like at this point what's stopping you from strapping a couple SRBs on the frame.
neilv 4/8/2025||
Is there added fire and/or explosion hazard?
derelicta 4/8/2025||
[flagged]
mperham 4/7/2025|
[flagged]
tomhow 4/8/2025||
It's fine to feel that way but it's not the kind of dismissive comment we want on HN; we're here to have curious conversations, thanks!

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

potato3732842 4/7/2025|||
Drag racing is just about the purest most scientific competition of vehicle tuning you're going to get. The driver doesn't really make or break it as long as they're at least decent.

On the other end of the spectrum you have racing types that are more of a competition among drivers with the vehicle not really making or breaking anything as long as it's typical for the class.

mperham 4/7/2025||
I get racing on a twisty track. They are legitimate tests of human skill and vehicle endurance engineering. Drag racing has none of that. There's little skill beyond reaction time and drag vehicles have almost no relation to normal vehicles.
SAI_Peregrinus 4/7/2025|||
Think of drag racing like the CO2 cartridge race car competitions you see in lots of high-school science classes. It's an engineering challenge, not a skill-based race.
oslem 4/7/2025||||
I disagree. Drag racing involves incredible honed vehicle endurance, just on a much shorter timescale. It’s an engineering problem with the goal of outputting as much power as possible within a short timespan (often only a few seconds) without detrimentally destroying the engine. As far as the drivers are concerned, the reaction time is obviously important, but they have to be extraordinarily consistent. At that, they have to drive the car at 5 g’s- not an easy task.
barnas2 4/7/2025||
The engines still get destroyed. It's basically a complete rebuild between runs. Most of the spark plugs burn up, clutch disks get welded together, etc. The goal is basically to just not have the engine outright detonate so they can reuse the block.
oslem 4/7/2025||
You are absolutely correct. Perhaps I should’ve worded “detrimentally destroyed” as “catastrophic failure.” The rebuild process between runs is fascinating to watch. I’ve never seen an engine torn apart so quickly!
WalterBright 4/8/2025||
> I’ve never seen an engine torn apart so quickly!

The first time I took my 286 intake manifold off, it took 4 hours. The 4th time I took it off, it took 20 minutes. Once you know exactly what to do, it really cuts the time down.

I'm sure every member of the team knows exactly what to do and it's down to a dance.

For fun, look how fast they change the tires on a Formula 1 pit stop.

mikestew 4/7/2025||||
Drag racing has none of that.

What is it the kids say? "Tell me you know nothing about drag racing without saying you know nothing about drag racing"? Drag racing has all of that, squeezed into 1/4 of a mile. That's why top fuelers get an engine rebuild after every trip down the track.

It's like saying, "I get ultramarathons, but 400m foot races involved little skill or training." Look, if you don't get it, fine. Probably best to just leave it at that.

dizhn 4/7/2025||||
You're thinking about this in only a professional way. There are a lot of amateur events where people race with their own cars that they have modified. It's really fun to see something like a vw rabbit beat a modern sports car etc. It's a fun event too but the tire burning shows do get old very quickly.
badlibrarian 4/7/2025||||
Try it! Costs far less than you think and more than half the class sat wide eyed, refusing a second run.
jcgrillo 4/7/2025|||
Have you ever tried it?
mperham 4/7/2025||
I participated in motorcycle track days on race tracks for 15 years. I've dragged knee at 90pmh. _That_ takes skill and balls. Drag racing seems dumb by comparison.
mikestew 4/7/2025|||
That's a long-winded way to say, "no, I've never tried it". If one has never tried a pursuit, I can understand how it might "seem dumb". What seems dumb to me, though, is doing track days for years on end, and never once trying to see how fast you could launch a bike down a drag strip, and then going on about how dumb drag racing is.
mperham 4/7/2025||
I've owned two Porsches, an Audi R8 V10, half dozen sport bikes. I've done laps at Laguna Seca. I've floored them all to see what they'll do. The V10 sounded amazing.

But I've never felt any interest in drag racing at all, it's a pointless waste of fuel. Press accelerator, press brake, done, little to no skill required. And in something like the R8, would require a $20,000 dealer visit after a weekend of runs.

potato3732842 4/7/2025|||
If you actually achieved a high level of proficiency you'd be able to respect what goes on at an equally high level in a different niche.
MarcelOlsz 4/7/2025|||
Racing changed my life and you should definitely go to a meetup, drag race, or track event. The dream of the 80's is still alive in the car world. You'll meet the coolest people. Dummies get filtered and don't make it to the events/track. It's the best and easiest real life scene to get into if you're technical because car guys are absolute nerds.
jorvi 4/7/2025||
> because car guys are absolute nerds.

Are they? At least in Europe they are usually blue collar guys that pick a neighborhood at random to hold a car meet, terrorizing that neighborhood until deep into the night, including street races. And if they aren't accommodated they'll aggressively clash with the police.

They're easy to spot too, pumped up douches with tribal tattoos and gemstone earrings that behave like they're prone to pick a bar fight with you.

JKCalhoun 4/7/2025|||
Or hoons as the Aussies call them. I think OP was talking about a different caliber of racer.
MarcelOlsz 4/7/2025||
I am, which is why I specifically said drag, meetups, and track events. The only group I detest are the ones that takeover roads/highways and race in densely populated zones. I like hooners, 99% stick to parking lots and make a bit of noise. You'll be very hard pressed to find "racers" who embrace endangering regular people.
potato3732842 4/7/2025||||
Europe doesn't have the same accessibility for motorsport so people doing stuff on the street is what you get. IDK, write your legislator.
MarcelOlsz 4/7/2025|||
What do you expect when tracks are closing left and right? That energy has to go somewhere. But yes those guys are also nerds.

The meets I'm talking about are like this [0][1]. There's a lot of the tattoo gemstone guys in [1]'s timestamp. Is this what you mean? I'd love some examples.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bAq_qD9i2s

[1] https://youtu.be/q4lvEYLJaOY?t=340

>And if they aren't accommodated they'll aggressively clash with the police.

If you're a car guy you're basically begging to be hunted constantly. In my opinion this is all downstream of the death of folkracing.

dave4270 4/7/2025|||
As a race buddy of mine often says, one can teach a complete college semester on the math of drag racing. From the engineering of the vehicles to the tuning to the weather calculations. And then there is what we call "bracket racing". Staggered starts based on your own prediction of elapsed time that you cannot run faster than or you will "break out" and the other vehicle wins. A favorite t-shirt in the pits says, "Not everyone can do math at 150MPH".
jimktrains2 4/7/2025|||
Literally everything is pointless, even existence, from someone's point of view.

You don't have to understand how something amuses someone to understand that it amuses them. You also don't have to belittle people to ask them why they are amused.

bigyabai 4/7/2025|||
If you think drag racing seems pointless and self destructive, it is in your best interests to not explore the other popular variants of competitive motorsports today.
JKCalhoun 4/7/2025|||
I have been told that a lot consumer automobile advances began life on the race track.
blahyawnblah 4/7/2025|||
People like to go fast and they like the challenge. And newer race cars have a good bit of technology in them.
stronglikedan 4/7/2025|||
You could say the same about just about everything except breathing, eating, and drinking nothing but water.
Dylan16807 4/7/2025||
Most hobbies are pointless. I need you to explain how you got to "self-destructive" though.
mperham 4/7/2025||
When I look at a drag stripe, I see a gray, dirty rectangle of asphalt that generates huge amounts of noise and air pollution. Beyond the environmental destruction, it's a hobby that quickly destroys vehicle parts, engines, tires, brakes, etc. All of that destruction, for what? 5 seconds of extreme acceleration? To go one hundredth of a second faster this time?
Dylan16807 4/8/2025||
How do you feel about model rockets? If it's the same then oof okay, but if you feel very different then I think you're being too harsh on drag racing.