Posted by MITthrow123 4/7/2025
Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends
It's honestly demoralizing. I came to MIT hoping to build a better life—not just for myself, but for my family. Now I’m facing the very real possibility of moving back home to an unstable and abusive environment while continuing to job hunt. The thought alone is crushing. I’ve even considered staying for an MEng just to avoid going home, but I’m completely burnt out and have no thesis direction. MIT gave me freedom, food security, friends, a bed of my own for the first time. It changed everything. But now that graduation’s here, it feels like it’s all slipping away.
If you've been through something similar—late job search success, unexpected turns that worked out, or just any advice—I’d really appreciate it. What helped you push through when it felt like the system failed you?
Thanks for reading.
From last time around: The people who kept pushing and took any job, anywhere turned out okay. This translated to a lot of people taking jobs below what they expected to get or having to move when they didn’t want to, but it was ultimately temporary.
The people I knew who turned cynical, let negativity take the wheel, and checked out of the job market struggled much harder to get back in.
You’re early in your career. This current period of turmoil doesn’t mean that much, even though it feels like everything right now. Keep at it, work a little harder than your competition, and put a little more care into your applications and it will work out. Stay away from the doom spirals on Reddit or Blind. Uninstall those apps (and others) if they’re making you worse.
If you can accept that you just happen to be born at the wrong time, you will be in a better place mentally than where I was at for a long time. I won’t say it’s easy; it will suck. But it is possible to make it out ok. I luckily had some financial and emotional support from my family to keep me going. I don’t know your situation but hopefully you are able to find support too. I wish you the best of luck.
Yep, the people who graduated about 3-4 years ago are all making more than I do after more than a decade. It seems like that's just how it works.
How uncommon is it for someone with no highschool diploma (GED), or college diploma to get a job as a software engineer at a Fortune 500 company? Am I completely fucked if I ever lose this job? It's my second SE job...
Like OP may have been hinting at, I had a really fucked up family situation and this path was the only one that I could take- should I plan on going back to school just for future job market security?
I have watched that diminish over the last 20 years.
The unspoken secret in programming is that a CS degree basically signals absolutely nothing about programming skill. You can get a 1st in CS and be a rubbish programmer, you can get a chemistry degree and be an amazing one. A lot of CS is utterly irrelevant to programming, and the vast majority of programming skills are not covered by CS degree.
Once you're past 2-3 years experience it stops being relevant, before that it's a way to filter CVs by managers who want to pretend their CS degree wasn't a complete waste of time.
If they're asking for a CS degree for a senior role it's basically advertising they're a clueless company.
The main thing to do IMO is spend time building a network. A recommendation in the right place at the right time can open doors that would otherwise be closed to you.
School is an option, but the opportunity cost has been too high so far for me. Though doing a freelance PhD thesis probably wouldn't hurt.
I'm going to challenge this as you didn't give specific data to back it up. I read an article recently that did have data, and it made the argument that first jobs, and first salaries, tend to be remarkably "sticky". That is, if you are desperate for a job out of college so take one that causes you to be underemployed and underpaid, that doesn't just stick with you for your first job, but data showed that people were underemployed and underpaid for at least a decade after college.
The advice in this article was to hold out as long as possible for a desirable job, which meant a ton of networking, taking internships if possible, and also possibly additional schooling.
Apologies for not having the article on hand, but here's another one I found in 30 seconds of googling that makes the same argument, with research:
https://www.highereddive.com/news/half-of-graduates-end-up-u...
Edit: that said, I think the majority of what the parent wrote is good. Esp the part about negativity. That hits hard and is good to be aware of.
I doubt there’ll be a shortage of ML jobs in the next few years, unless somehow the AI industry completely collapses somehow.
That is, I think it's likely that a lot of people who start out unemployed are just comparatively less motivated, less aggressive, "go-with-the-flow"-type people. These folks do better when the market is good and worse when it's bad. But, as you put it, someone with a lot of drive and the skillset is not necessarily doomed to be held back for years if their first job sucks, as long as they set their sights on getting ahead quickly and don't let their stagnant environment rub off on them.
Emphasis on the next actions to take.
Being in a graduating cohort affords you certain opportunities -- internships, career fairs, faculty-connected networking.
Post-graduation, and especially post-college, people don't have these same opportunities.
Fwiw, I'd lean very heavily into interning. Take an internship at the best company you can, that's likely to have solid financials and be hiring when you finish the internship.
Intern -> hire is a ridiculous cheat code for your first "in industry" job.
The employer decreases the risk of making a mistake on an unproven new grad. You get a job offer if you do enough solid work. Win/win.
Worst case (no job offer), you should push really hard for a solid recommendation letter from your direct or second level manager.
But then again, we are definietly not in times of normalcy. If nothing changes quick we may all be losing our spending power.
Which may just mean that they need to stay focused on self-improvement and job hopping as possible.
Also consider taking something below (or even much below) expectations. It's much easier to work your way up with connections than it is to get in the door with no references.
The ones I've seen aren't good. I see some jobs in companies with shitty pay or shitty culture (my bar is not high). It dies look like the past 6 months have been better than the previous year or so. But overall, it looks pretty dim. I'm getting PIP'd soon. I am expecting that I will likely lose my job. If that happens, I'm expecting that I will end up as a Walmart greeter. As someone with a disability, I expect my application will go right in the trash if I answer yes or blank on the disability question. Or get fired if I mark no and then do need accommodations.
I'm desperately looking for a new job. I hate my current job, the constant stress is taking a real toll, and I'm more tired than I've been ever before.
I'm quite literally applying to all sorts of developer jobs that I'm well overqualified for, in any honest assessment, for a lot less than I make now. These roles are far from "premium" gigs. I've no diva expectations or hope at this point.
The only places I even get rejection emails from are places I've had a referral.
Things are bleak.
I'm in a similar place wrt job "security."
Current gig will end soon, one way or another, and the future doesn't look great.
That's an interesting hypothesis.
I've seen many people suggest just the opposite- pretending to have a mild disability when filling in the form so that they get the boost from companies which use recruiting software that prioritizes diversity and inclusiveness in candidate pool.
Federal contractors are explicitly required to "take affirmative action to recruit, hire, promote and retain" people with disabilities, with a target of at least 7% of their employees be from that group. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/program-areas/employers/fe...
At the annual Fall job fair, 80% of students queue up to less than 10% of employers. Most companies never show up because it's simply not worth the cost and time to try to recruit spoiled brats of MIT
Why would they work with people that they perceive to be beneath them and have worked far less hard than them?
Because you aren't actually modeling their thinking correctly?
I seriously doubt that. This doesn't fit the class they come from. Maybe it would have in 1985 but not today.
Today, MIT is nothing but a shadow of its better known academic cartel up the Mass ave. Those who hire MIT students know that and plan accordingly. The only reason to hire MIT students is for branding propaganda, you get nothing more from them.
The signals around me in LA are pretty damn bad. several friends laid off, many others worried about layoffs, and a very weak pulse on the market in terms of roles. I still have part time work but who knows for how much longer at this rate?
At this point I'm fine taking up anything that pays and doesn't potentially sent my 8 YO car into retirement even faster.
Is that true? I seem to remember data showing that the 2008-2010 graduate cohorts never overall caught up to the ones that came immediately before or after them.
Like sure sure OP has an engineering degree from MIT they're more like the ones that did catch up. But I'll bet there are a lot more people reading this who are about to graduate with degrees from perfectly adequate state schools and I'm not sure this unalloyed optimism is exactly correct for them. I don't think it turned out to be for their 2008 predecessors.
Comparing to other cohorts isn’t useful because you can’t pick your cohort. You are born into one timeline and you play the hand you’re dealt.
There’s a lot of research that people who graduate into bad job markets are more cautious and less risk taking which can make them look like they’re behind peers who are more risk hungry when the market is up. I wouldn’t be surprised if it also makes them come out ahead in periods where the market is down.
Also, I graduated from a pretty mediocre state school. I'm by no means starving.
I believe he finally gave up studying & interviewing for junior dev jobs in 2016. At that point why take a "stale" graduate when you can just get an actual 22 year old from the same school, seems to have been everyone's reasoning.
I saw a similar thing a bunch when teaching at a code school ca 2018 too. It was a great move if you had savings or support for 6-18 months of job search. The ones that got in are still doing ok. But a lot didn't, they had to keep working at what they did before "temporarily" while interviewing and most of them are still doing exactly that.
So idk, I'm not sure how you would even get numbers on this. How many people would have excelled in this work if they had graduated at a different time, or with more support, but they didn't and they simply aren't here.
It's a more difficult path and people navigate it but I don't think everyone does if you see what I mean. I think some of who should be our colleagues are simply missing because they did what they had to to pay bills in 2010 and never made it in here.
Yeah, they weren't. You were in a STEM bubble, which back in 2008 probably was the only bubble that could still get jobs "the old way", without going through application hell.
Also, the job market was way worse in 09-10 than it was in 2008, especially first half of 2008.
Had I got a job before I graduated that company may well have gone bust or laid people off anyway.
Had some bad interviews including being beaten by a other candidate on a job writing access databases for a 1 person business, and a job where they said they interview girls to see what they look like (not a girl but was disgusted... I carried on the process anyway because need $)
This environment reminds me of the one I faced graduating into the 2001-2003 post-Dotcom Bust market.
Even the US basically didn't get back to where it was pre-2008 till 2019.
Tech was fine because mobile was happening, but it was incredibly grim everywhere else.
Hard disagree. Things went back to almost normal around 2013. Lots of money going around, new startups, and plenty of jobs.
Those types of connections are CRITICAL in the age of scorched-earth AI centric hiring. I spent 9 months recently jobless after getting laid off, and its damned near impossible to get a job through the usual resume farm (LinkedIn job board and the like).
Also, look for jobs local to wherever you are that don't look all that glamorous. RTO is a big thing now, and smaller organizations struggle to hire locally without the brand recognition of the big guys. That might be your in for your first job.
And the biggest thing, keep your head up. Keep pushing. You just got a degree from an extremely difficult program, and you can hang your hat on that. The factors affecting the job market are not within your control, and your skills will outlast them.
The vast majority of the recent interviews that I have gotten have been through networking. Sometimes just asking the right people works, but obviously you have to know who to ask, when to ask it, and how to ask it to make it work. There are also more passive methods like the HN monthly job threads, but you should do active networking as your primary networking method in this job market.
Even if I apply via a job board to positions that I am supremely qualified for, there is a good chance I'll be auto-rejected within a day. It has happened multiple times to me and I shrug it off at this point.
I know networking is hard, especially when you are just starting out, but I just wanted to write a post saying that it does work if you stick to it.
(That said, I would also prepare to be unemployed for an extended period. Even if you are actively interviewing, it can take months to get a job offer. For my current position, it took 5 months to get an offer and I started 4 months later due to a housing storage where the job was located.)
https://respectfulleadership.substack.com/p/april-28-the-inf...
Asking for referrals/connections will be more effective though if you have an interest and focus and can articulate that to the prof. Imagine they are the first link in the hiring chain and treat them accordingly. You need to sell yourself to them before they'll sell you to their network.
I would suggest for your first job, take whatever you can get, as long as it is in your field, and deal with it for the first two years to get your foot in the industry. My first job was notoriously horrible, but after two years, I got a really good job with a company you've heard of through a recommendation.
Also, I would suggest looking outside the typical mega tech companies. There are plenty of other industries that need good people.
You can also "start small" and network via FOSS communities, I met one of my best friends while contributing to niche projects and we ended up working together because of it.
Most profs these days, went to grad school right out of college and never stepped foot in the industry. If they've had any contact within industry it's through some R&D grant with other PhDs. A few are in start-ups which means they only hire interns for $20/hr, and fresh off the boat indians and asians grad students.
Small or local companies don't want and can't pay salary of MIT grads; they've plenty of salt-of-the-earth local engineering school grads to chose from.
> I’m facing the very real possibility of moving back home to an unstable and abusive environment while continuing to job hunt
You don't have to do this. You can do anything you want you're a free person with your own agency and plenty of skills. There are a million ways you can work around this.
> What helped you push through when it felt like the system failed you?
Realizing that I am owed nothing, and focusing on ways to get what I want. With your background and skills I am certain you can achieve anything you set your mind to as long as you don't put yourself in a subordinate, dependent, position.
I don't think the system _ever_ fails people with "merit" like MIT grads. It fails people like me that can't get into top schools that went to 50% accept rate public schools.
I graduated in 2018 too - I guarantee people like you consider me and my career accomplishments in the intervening years to be failure worthy. I genuinely think a typical MIT Course 6 grad from 2018 would be clinically depressed if they were in my shoes.
I started in state schools and leveraged that into one of the world's best (half the MIT professors had graduated from my alma mater when I was deciding where to go) for my MSc.
As [likely] one of the people you reference, I am a counter example to your guarantee. No one should fail who contributes in good faith. Live life well, be responsible, have fun, spread joy, and no matter what happens in your career you'll have succeeded.
https://www.levels.fyi/companies/amazon/salaries/systems-dev...
There is no help that will stop me from being an untermensch and failure? It's not going to get me a 1600 or get me into a top school or make me earn $800k a year.
I say this as someone who earns much less than you (never mind 800k), and who didn't go to a top school.
I'm no psychiatrist but your posts suggests that you see yourself as a failure, or possibly you've gotten that feedback from others directly. Perhaps at Amazon or elsewhere.
Projecting that feeling onto others suggests you would really benefit from talking to a professional about this.
I don't think you're a failure, I don't know you. But from what little you've revealed I'd say you're not a failure. But perhaps you had your own goals you failed to achieve?
I have no accomplishments, nothing to be proud of. Freshmen at MIT have more potential and prior accomplishments than I do.
You might need a refresher on the meaning of the word "under".
There is nothing wrong being under accomplished. Let me tell you a secret that helps with mental sanity. All humans are sinful creatures. We indulge in lot of these sins. If you go through this chain of thought you arrive at conclusion, everyone is inferior to one another. The material superiority you yearn for is a momentary fleet in the river of time.
Sometimes just reflect on yourself. One perspective of life is your world governs you. If you are happy in your own world, try to let go of it. Just enjoy the moments and don't hold on it.
You are the actor and creator of your reality. Your objective reality is making you feel inferior. Define your role, change your actions, and act accordingly.
The inability to act according to your role is the probably reason behind your feeling. You probably see yourself through some different lens where your actions and objective reward do not align. All you can do is control your thoughts and actions. So act.
>"i have no accomplishments"
give me a break
Objectively, you. are. not. a. failure!
Ninety-five percent of US households earn less than that. Ninety-five!
The material fact here is you have this made up story in your head that's not supported by the limited facts you've given us. I'm not going to change your self image by yelling at a stranger over the Internet; if traditional talk therapy with a human didn't work, discuss it at length with ChatGPT, or go see a sex worker, they're surprisingly good for talking to. You're also welcome to email me, link in bio.
Us, we have go strive for living. That's the unfairness in life. It would have been so much easier if lucky ones would acknowledge their luck than attribute for hard work and what not.
Everyone discounts luck while it is the biggest factor. Only action you can do is increase the surface area of your luck.
Try to find meaning beyond career. There are multiple ways to get lucky. Find your own luck. After all we are in an era where people get wealth screaming on top of their lungs to the internet.
Why are you equating money with self-worth and dignity? That's a losing battle since there's always a bigger fish.
Know when to rest, not to quit. Take whatever job you can now while continuing to look for your next role.
> What helped you push through when it felt like the system failed you?
Grit and nihilism. No one is coming to save us.
What I'll say won't help you now, but: this will help you later.
Don't assume you'll always be able to find a job. Work towards financial independence early. Avoid debt. Don't get some fancy car as a "treat" to yourself, counting on your future income to make payments... that income might not come.
Sorry it sucks right now. Don't give up, don't let your skills dull. Keep grinding and take any programming job just to start getting that 2-3 experience that locks out so many of the labour market.
This. And by any job I mean any job. McDonalds, book store, what have you. A good friend of mine dropped out of Harvard sophomore year. She found work at the COOP, then CVS, etc. It was definitely better than going back to an unstable and abusive environment while continuing to job hunt.
Some of my school colleagues got good jobs at refineries and whatnot... but they were the fortunate ones. It took me 12 months to land my first "I made it" engineering job with a good salary. In the interim, I worked hourly jobs making between 13-18 USD an hour.
Don't let the current job market deflate you. You are young, intelligent, and you have a degree from MIT... you are going to be fine.
I worked at Stinkies Fish Camp as a dishwasher fwiw after my 6 years as a Cyber Threat Operator in the AF (2012 government sequestration did wonders to clearance renewals). It sucked, but I lived. Well, survived.
Best of luck, always keep a candle of hope to a wildcard interview!
Hunter S. Thompson’s Letter on Finding Your Purpose and Living a Meaningful Life https://fs.blog/hunter-s-thompson-to-hume-logan/
I wish I had better advice. I really only have some decent part time work from a blind linkedIn message. Luck really is opportunity + preparation. And these days, you REALLY gotta get lucky. Keep every channel up to advertise yourself, talk around to everyone in your community, and keep bolstering your portfolio. Grab any sort of job possible if you don't decide to move back. If you're willing t relocae for any role, all the better. Just be keenly aware of CoL, because it may slip under your fingers in these times.
I was sent out to an okay enough market that was still looking for people. You were sent out into a wasteland. Just remember that absolutely none of this was your fault. But unfortunately your goal right now is to survive and ride the storm out.
Best of luck.