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Posted by ohjeez 5 days ago

Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout(spectrum.ieee.org)
380 points | 238 commentspage 2
tgtweak 4 days ago|
I keep seeing these "grid synchronizing" inverters that don't require transfer switches and can generate to offset the energy pulled from the grid - in the event of a full grid outage, you can always manually hit the disconnect and run the home - provided the load doesn't surpass the generation capacity (or storage capacity if running with batteries).

It seems like this hasn't really made it's way into North America, which is unfortunate as it would lower the barrier of entry for home solar considerably vs traditional grid-tie/net metering which requires a ton of permits, electricians, meter changes, disconnects (or transfer switches) and generally lots of delays and cost.

I would be very curious how the "migrogrids" interconnect in PR - it seems there is some kind of synchronization and neighborhood-level disconnects to isolate from the shared grid.

rtkwe 4 days ago|
Grid synchronizing is not the same as being able to operate in island mode. The only reason you can run those inverters without an automatic transfer switch is because they don't function when there's no grid to follow so they shut off when power goes out meaning they don't backfeed the grid outside the home.

A lot of inverters are just grid following and you need some other source creating the 60-hz signal for the solar inverters to follow. Generally this is either a battery or generator because solar has a really hard fall off in the power provided the instant you try to draw too much so instantaneous spike loads like motors starting (compressors/fans/etc) will often collapse off grid solar only installs.

bob1029 4 days ago||
> motors starting

This is a big problem when working with single stage HVAC condensers. These motors can have a LRA rating of well over 100 amps.

briHass 4 days ago|||
The bang-on, bang-off compressors are a dying breed, however. The efficiency and output modulation of the inverter units means even the conventional split systems have been switching over. Likewise, the 'minisplit' (originator of these efficient compressors) definition has expanded to include ducted models, even ducted models with conventional high-cfm blower wheels.
bob1029 4 days ago||
Putting semiconductors in front of a 3+ ton heat pump when you live in a rural area is guaranteed bad times.

Not only can you not find many people who have parts or knowledge on hand, but you also have to deal with the fragility of the system. A single stage compressor is very robust to electrical transients. These units can take direct lightning strikes and continue to function normally. Worst case, you replace a contactor, capacitor and some wire. Every hvac tech on earth has these things in their truck right now.

Efficiency and gently ramping loads are nice, but these things don't matter so much if the system is going to have maintenance issues.

eldaisfish 3 days ago||
the factors that kill semiconductor switches are heat and voltage switching transients. This is why the 800 V electronic components in some EVs fail - the voltage.

The voltage in a heat pump is 240 V. The power is typically a couple of kilowatts. Reliability of silicon switches at that voltage is excellent. This is just not a widespread problem.

tgtweak 4 days ago|||
There are solutions like Microair easy start - these are pretty common on generator setups too as these peak starting amps can snuff a generator too.
danans 5 days ago||
Based on what I see in the photo in the article, PV array codes in Puerto Rico must be quite different from those in California, because the arrays seem to cover almost the entirety of the roofs. In California fire access codes [1] prevent the entire roof from being covered like in PV that.

1. https://energycodeace.com/site/custom/public/reference-ace-2...

blitzar 5 days ago||
Likely because they have building codes that prevent the construction of houses from matchsticks.
potato3732842 4 days ago||
It has nothing to do with construction and everything to do with rainfall.

I can throw a lit road flare into my back yard and nothing will happen, because I don't live in a glorified desert. PR is an order of magnitude wetter than where I live.

neilknowsbest 4 days ago|||
PR has a dry season when the island receives less rain, and there are dry regions that generally get less rain. In fact, there are sometimes forest fires [1].

Regarding construction, I've never seen a smoke alarm inside a residential building in PR. I would hazard a guess that this is allowed for concrete/cinderblock; presumably the roof thing is the same.

[1] - https://www.elnuevodia.com/noticias/seguridad/notas/incendio...

heliodor 5 days ago|||
The vast majority of roofs in Puerto Rico are flat and the vast majority of buildings are made of cinder blocks and concrete.
pjc50 5 days ago||
What's the rationale for that? It's not a rule in the UK. I'm not sure who's going to be walking on the roof of a building that's on fire.
KaiserPro 5 days ago||
looking at the linked doc, its so that the roof can easily be opened to let smoke out.

I'm not an expert, but I've not seen in the UK (well apart from thatched roofs) firefighters opening the roof to get access.

metalman 5 days ago||
technological advances for off/tied grid solar are now maturing into high quality solutions for all scenarios, costs are in free fall. I was an ultra early adopter of solar pv in 1991 in Takilma, Oregon living in a school bus,and continue to live off grid in Nova Scotia. As to Peurto Rico, my first question was answered by a quick look at a topograpgical map, and Peurto Rico looks a lot like Nova Scotia....lots and lots of hills and little valleys and rivers, which means that for them topography has a big part to play, also looking at pictures of the instalations there, basic roofing is clearly a price consideration before other things, so developing solar that assembles into a physical roofing product, that entirely replaces other roofing, would be important for anyone who is carefullt crunching numbers on a new build in a choice location, add in charging for cars and scooters which can double as extra house power when needed and the inevitability of the comming switch becomes obvious.
alexnewman 4 days ago||
i live in puerto rico. I talk with my luma friends all the time, we need baseload. We need more gas. We've made huge investments in solar that have been destroyed by hurricanes and are a huge waste issue.
asciii 4 days ago|
i got really tired of Luma and after the new year blackout i jumped ship to windmar. i'm fairly rural so it's actually decent and in a good spot where other neighbors have fared well during hurricanes.
greenie_beans 4 days ago||
my prediction, for the US: electricity demand from AI will exceed supply at least in the short and medium term, driving up electric prices for consumers
bryanlarsen 4 days ago|
Increased demand for air conditioning in the US is increasing demand at about the same rate as AI is. We're expanding the grid fast enough to handle one, but not both.
greenie_beans 4 days ago||
interesting, i haven't heard that. where can i go to learn about that? historians cite AC as one of the things that changed the american south in the 20th century, making it more habitable.
pyrale 5 days ago||
This article looks like it completely embraces the pov of solar providers, and describes maintenance of the grid as serving the interests of the fossil electricity industry.

...And not far from the end:

> The next milestone, Massol-Deyá says, will be successfully connecting microgrids that are not in close geographic proximity.

Yeah... great journalism here IEEE.

elitegolfhub 5 days ago||
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black_13 4 days ago||
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amai 5 days ago||
They should buy a nuclear power plant instead. Only nuclear power plants can prevent blackouts.
OtherShrezzing 5 days ago||
A nuclear plant wouldn't prevent the specific types of blackouts that Puerto Rico suffers from, as described in the article. Hurricanes and aged infrastructure means the power coming from centralised producers fails to arrive at distributed consumers. The advantage solar has in this regard is that the energy is produced within 1/2km of its consumption.
gregors 4 days ago|||
Timely post as a TN power plant is offline

https://www.local3news.com/local-news/tva-takes-sequoyah-nuc...

Attrecomet 5 days ago|||
I have to wonder how you envision a small community building nucular when the state has already failed them. That's the real neat thing, that cooperations smaller than the entire territory of Puerto Rico can take action and help themselves, and even take away pressure from the rest of the grid doing it!

> Only nuclear power plants can prevent blackouts. That sentence is so maximal that it is trivially maximally wrong. Clearly, other tech can do that too. Like, blindingly obviously.

greenie_beans 4 days ago|||
yes it is so easy to build nuclear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nukegate_scandal
blitzar 5 days ago||
France enters the chat ...
whall6 4 days ago|
I don’t have data but I have a hunch most blackouts in PR are weather related. In that case (stormy skies), solar probably won’t help much.
cjbgkagh 4 days ago|
Don’t most storms happen at night? So really it’s the battery doing the work either way.
whall6 4 days ago||
The amount of battery capacity required to sustain power demand for this to be scaled to a meaningful population is high (PR average daily power demand is ~50 GWh per day). Most power outages in PR take 48 to 72 hours to fix. You would need batteries that can store 150 GWh of power. That’s a LOT of money to install.

Even this assumes that you wouldn’t want any breathing room on battery capacity (i.e., every power outage will be fixed in under 72 hours).