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Posted by smartmic 4 days ago

Alternative Layout System(alternativelayoutsystem.com)
389 points | 67 comments
demetrius 4 days ago|
I think "Same Sizer" looks ugly because characters are stretched mechanically, so each line has different width. Ideally, the lines should all keep their widths, and the position should be stretched.

I think a better application of "all words have the same size" principle can be seen in Vietnamese calligraphy, which sometimes combines Latin characters with Chinese-adjacent writing style, e.g. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%C4%90%E1%BB%91i_-... (this is written in Latin script split into equal squares)

pavlov 4 days ago||
Huh. I would never have noticed that your example image is actually in Latin script.

Because I don't read Chinese, anything that looks enough like Chinese seems to mentally go into the bin of "I can't understand this anyway." (I guess in this case it would help if I knew Vietnamese because then I would recognize familiar words and syllables in this calligraphy.)

Fascinating effect.

Scene_Cast2 3 days ago|||
I still can't read it despite trying.
yorwba 4 days ago|||
It does not help that "hoa" is stylized as something resembling の口亽.
bradrn 3 days ago|||
Along similar lines, the calligraphy here is quite impressive: https://www.reddit.com/r/language/comments/1gmzro8/what_scri...
floppyd 4 days ago||
I really wanted to see the example you linked, but the link is broken
demetrius 3 days ago|||
I don't know why. It works for me.

As an alternative, you can go to Wikipedia and paste File:Đối - Tết 2009.jpg into the search bar.

rapnie 4 days ago|||
I had the problem that navigating the page in firefox almost set fire to my CPU on my 2yr old linux dev laptop. Really liked the visualisations, though.
bryanrasmussen 3 days ago||
navigating the page in firefox on my 2 year old Mac M1, with about 50 tabs open and a few other applications running including Krita, Chrome, VS Studio, The Terminal, Preview and a couple finder windows gave no problems whatsoever, so maybe they should look at it but not high priority.
cjcenizal 4 days ago||
Every once in a while I come across something so beautifully stupid that all I can see is the genius behind it, and it fills me with joy. Well done!
n3storm 4 days ago|
Did you try to read it aloud? Your voice instantly becomes robotic :D
cjcenizal 3 days ago||
Hahaha, actually I think I heard it in Jony Ives’s voice.
nick238 4 days ago||
In non-phoenitic languages, i.e. English, many of these methods are painful, especially "Last is First". See "I", but then it's "In", so you need to mentally backtrack some understanding. See "t", but then it's "that", so if you're subvocalizing to read, you need to reform the phoneme because 't' is a different phoneme from 'th'.
pfortuny 4 days ago||
Just trying to help: "i.e." stands for "id est", which means "that is".

In your text, you should rather say "e.g." (exempli gratia), which means "for instance", "for example".

mkaic 3 days ago||
I think in casual speech at this point (at least in my experience) the two are used interchangeably. In professional or legal settings I'm sure the distinction matters more, but I feel like OP's usage here felt pretty natural to me even though it's not technically correct.
pfortuny 3 days ago||
Well, the thing is… when you use a borrowed term from a dead language, in writing, it really sounds wrong to cultivated ears. I really had to double-check that sentence to see if I had parsed it wrongly. Not bragging, just saying.

They cannot be completely interchangeable:

“There are white people among us: i.e. me and my father” is totally different from “…: e.g. me and my father”.

taeric 3 days ago|||
English is phonetic? The writing systems aren't regular in that the same letter can represent different sounds. But they still represent sounds. Indeed, your confusion wouldn't even be possible if they didn't represent sounds.
dxdm 4 days ago||
Isn't reading more like pattern recognition than parsing letter-for-letter? It seems to work like that for me. There's also the somewhat famous text where each word's letters are jumbled and people can still read it fluently. Maybe that's not the case for everyone, though, and people have different ways of making sense of written text.

Edit: Quick search turned up this article about the jumbled-word phenomenon, containing the example text at the top: https://observer.com/2017/03/chunking-typoglycemia-brain-con...

speerer 4 days ago||
I once attended a short workshop where the person presenting encouraged us to switch between two modes of reading away from sub-vocalizing and into pattern recognition. The result was much faster reading without loss of understanding.

He didn't use those terms but adopting them from this thread - I learned that day that these really are two distinct modes.

eddythompson80 4 days ago||
Ok, I want the "Hyphenator" layout, but with more than just one word. I want the extra text to wrap around while the font keeps getting smaller to mimic how I used to take hand notes in college and need to shove in some stuff with no space left in the line.
rswail 3 days ago||
I think "Last Is First" is almost like a checksum for the people writing the text, so they don't lose their place as they are copying it.

I remember having to read the Torah and it was hard to move from learning to read with standard printed Hebrew, into not only the voweless text, but with the letters stretched. You had to learn how to sing the words correctly as well.

But it was a beautiful thing to see, handwritten, fully justified, columns written with ink on parchment.

smm32 3 days ago||
God, please don't make websites like this. I have a 1 Gbps connection, with a 1 Gbps network interface. Your server _cannot_ serve a site this large. Every single jpeg image which by design takes up no more than a few hundred pixels on a side when rendered on a screen is transferred over in 4K resolution, at sizes up to 9 MiB. Certain pages take upwards of 15 seconds to load with a total size of >40 MiB!!! I'm aware that it's partially due to the hug of death, but 3 Mbps is actually a respectable serving speed for most small servers, the site itself is just too large!
jrajav 3 days ago||
This is one of the cases where it seems more justified than usual. This is not a website intended for end users, maximizing for performance and conversion rate. It's a design showcase by a typographer, for typographers. Every pixel is crucial, and the intended audience would rather wait a few seconds to be able to scrutinize the output with the required detail.
rossant 3 days ago||
Progressive loading?
eddd-ddde 3 days ago||
I was so confused by there was no link to see the layouts. Turns out they were loading! It took like 3mins> on my network to even show the first one!
philsnow 4 days ago||
"Last is first" very much reminds me of the custos/custodes seen often in Gregorian chant notation, which come at the end of a line and are a hint of the first note in the next line (so while your eye is finding the start of the next line, you already know the pitch, even though it typically does not include the syllable).

See e.g. https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/ancien...

RattlesnakeJake 4 days ago||
This is horrendous. I love it.
donatj 4 days ago||
I have some eye issues, namely a lazy eye and double vision. I find same-sizer remarkably easy to read. Easier than standard text, which is very curious.

I almost wonder if the idea could be used as a sort of accessibility mode.

JoBrad 3 days ago|
Other than a very slight astigmatism, I have no visuals issues, but also found the same-sizer text much easier to read than I thought it would be.
Gualdrapo 4 days ago|
Their "imager" tool is really cool, though:

https://alternativelayoutsystem.com/imager/

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