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Posted by SeenNotHeard 7 days ago

The Plot of the Phantom, a text adventure that took 40 years to finish(scottandrew.com)
190 points | 42 commentspage 2
alienbaby 4 days ago|
I spent a bit of time using PAWS on an amstrad pcw to pen my own text adventure masterpiece.

It's probably still down there packed up in the cellar ....

Maybe I should dig it out again.

anthk 4 days ago|
Check NGPaws and such to port them to modern interpreters :)
janeway 4 days ago||
Wow, already stumbled into some good humour. Well done
adamdiy 3 days ago||
ready.
scoot 4 days ago||
I'm imagining the application of text adventures specifically designed for second language learning. Quite the possibilities!
scoot 4 days ago||
"That's not a verb I recognise." (So. Many. Times!)

Sorry, but that isn't a verb recognition problem, it's a comprehension problem. I agree with the downvoted poster that LLM integration would significantly improve the end user experience. However the LLM should not be arbiter of game state (as they suggested), but simply the translator that ensures that the players instructions are understood by the game.

ninetyninenine 4 days ago|
LLMs can enhance text adventures.

I'm not saying having LLMs narrate the entire situation. I'm saying have the LLM sit between gamestate and the player. The LLM is the UI.

Essentially the LLM can see the current game state and possible moves and it's the LLMs job to change the game state and report the current game state to the user (via a well written narrative).

That keeps the world consistent and structured, but the LLM adds enough dynamism to keep it flowing well. You can even make the underlying game state complex as well. Like you can have enemy AI's that actually move through the world too (independent of the LLM).

SeenNotHeard 4 days ago||
There have been attempts, the results were not promising:

https://intfiction.org/t/first-full-game-available-on-new-ll...

ninetyninenine 4 days ago||
It looks as if the problem for this one was a game design issue. They had the LLM be sarcastic and ignore well known adventure game prompts on purpose. It's an easy fix to make the LLM more obedient and polite.

The biggest issue is attempts to hack the LLM, to get at hidden gamestate. But I feel this can be easily remedied by just not providing the LLM with hidden game state.

Nevermark 4 days ago||
The LLM could use a different session to respond to each command.

That would keep its behavior passive and restricted to simply the current state, since it would retain no memory of previous actions.

ninetyninenine 2 days ago||
Yeah many hacks require multiple prompts. So we have a prompt limit and that makes for a really good textual interface for these old style text based games.
anthk 4 days ago||
Even Inform6 with the English library running under a Pentium would run circles over llm's. They aren't even close. If7 will curb-stomp it.

NPC's running around were a thing even in the 80's, see The Hobbit. That on a ZX spectrum. 8 bit CPU, 48k of RAM. With if6 and Zmachine games for 16 bit and 32 bit computers in the 90's llm's can't even compete.

From Jigsaw, Anchorhead, Curses, Spider and Web to that anagram word puzzle game for Glulx (a 32 bit zmachine cousin), the array of amateur but professional looking games it's huge, really huge.

ninetyninenine 4 days ago||
How? The LLM is in agentic mode and pulling and pushing the switches of the game. I don't see how these engines can curb stomp it.
anthk 4 days ago||
The i6 and i7 languages have a guaranted internal consistency starting with grammar. Even if6 ('old' compared against i7) it's an incredible language targetting the Z Machine with a really easy OOP architecture to design your games. LLM's often lose the internal storyline on bizarre ways.

An Inform 6 compiler can run under DOS/386 or Linux/BSD for 486 and compile a really large and functional game in seconds. For Inform7, maybe a Pentium II/III and a bunch of seconds too.

An AI to do the same, not even a 'modern' Core Duo with a GL 2.1 adapter (the lowest of the lowest bearable specs for light web browsing and office work) can't even run a consistent world.

ninetyninenine 3 days ago||
That’s not my proposal. The LLM doesn’t run the world. It is simply the interface. It tells you the state of the game and tries to enhance the description. The game is a separate application and the LLM is simply an agentic layer between you and the actual game.
anthk 3 days ago||
Inform 6/7 users don't need that. The engine does it all, modulo the object descriptions.
lIl-IIIl 3 days ago||
The engine doesn't understand natural English. It only understands the hard-coded words. The game author forgets to include some common verb or an uncommon spelling, and oops, an otherwise great puzzle is now very frustrating.

There's a reason "Guess the verb" meme exists. There's even a satire game on this concept: https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=35arqepm2q92hcqu

anthk 3 days ago||
The engine is the ZMachine, and depending on the target and the grammar (IF6+English, or better, i7) the 'guess the verb' issue straightly died in the 90's.

Your comment coudn't be more outdated since the Curses! release for the ZMachine in 1993.

The v5 machine release was much better than the v3 one, and the v5-V8 ones allowed semi-complex phrases with indirect object pronouns after a previous entered phrase and much more.

Go play Anchorhead and compare it to a z3 machine game from Infocom, or any game made it with Puny Inform.