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Posted by micvbang 2 days ago

Tools I love: mise(-en-place)(blog.vbang.dk)
173 points | 48 comments
hks0 2 days ago|
I manage a monorepo at my workplace. Different devs with various levels of seniority are on/off boarded on the project, some on mac some on linux.

At first I offered mise as the recommended tool, and after a while I declared it's the only supported way to build the project and boom! All support requests that used to end with "oooh my XYZ's version was not matching the project's requirement" are gone now.

I like asdf but it has quirks. Mise has been a better companion for me past few years.

I also hear people say "but my node/ruby/elixir/java/foo version manager will break. My team uses that tool in our other projects, etc, etc" then I only have to show them what an amazing drop-in replacement mise is and nothing breaks; there's no going back for them.

I just hope muse stays mise, and doesn't become just[1] (whom I also install via mise)

[1]: https://github.com/casey/just

stryan 2 days ago||
I'm lazy by nature so I don't like learning new tools if I don't have to. I've stuck with make, direnv, and my distros package manager instead of learning just or asdf so that I don't need to learn anything new. But mise hits that sweet spot of being a better direnv and a (mostly) better Make that it became worth the effort to try it out and I'm glad I did. It also helps that jdx (the author) really cares about the ergonomics of use and it shows; the documentation is up to date, the commands make sense, and every time I start to get annoyed some paper cut with it I discover there's already a fix for it (like `mise task run task-name` and `mise task-name` being equivalent commands so you don't have to type as much).

If you try to stick to the classic POSIX tools since they're installed everywhere, I urge you to give mise a try anyway. It and fzf are the only programs I've found that are truly worth the extra effort it takes to install them, even if it is just grabbing a binary.

fmbb 2 days ago||
By ”a better Make”, do you mean Mise does phony target task-like recipes better?

Or is it better than Make at actually making things, tracking file and recipe dependencies, detecting what needs to be rebuilt etc?

stryan 2 days ago||
Sorry, yes I should have clarified I meant as a task-runner! It's also been pretty good at the actual software building part too, but I haven't compared it quite as in-depth yet to make a public comment.
elviejo 2 days ago||
I'll add the 'dtrx' (Do The Right Extraction) as one of those tools that are worth to learn compared to the more basic alternatives
vsviridov 2 days ago||
Recently completed a switch from asdf, and can confirm, this tool is great and it's now part of my base machine setup going forward.
mrbonner 2 days ago||
My actual usage is a mix-bag. For general tools and utilities, I often just use Nix and Home Manager. It is a pain for setting up but once you got it working, it's basically fire and forget. Whenever you need a new app, you just add that to the `home.nix` and call it a day.

Now, for language development environment, I won't use Nix and just prefer to whatever that language popular choice. For instance, in Python I use uv. For Node I use npm (or yarn or bun or whatever in fashion now), Java has mice, Rust has rustup.

It is not a one-size-fit-all solution but I am not sure if we can ever achieve that.

nylonstrung 2 days ago||
I'd argue nix is the closest to a one-size-fits-all solution if you're using stuff like uv2nix and npm equivalents
mrbonner 2 days ago||
yes, but I now have to deal with all the oddities by combining them.
dawnofdusk 2 days ago|||
Yeah it's hard to get excited about these sorts of tools when Nix exists.

I think for development purposes it's a smart idea to use the language specific conventions/ecosystem.

nextos 2 days ago|||
I love Nix flakes, but for some languages it is still very painful to use.

For example, Julia has an unusual package management system and lots of packages still fail under flakes.

hollerith 2 days ago|||
>Rust has rustup.

Do you mean cargo?

pdpi 2 days ago|||
Cargo's the package manager and build tool, and doesn't really replace mise. Rustup, as the toolchain version manager, is the mise-equivalent for the Rust ecosystem.
tough 2 days ago|||
Rustc is the compiler, rustup is the updater, cargo is the package manager.
sfn42 2 days ago||
Java has mice? I thought java had maven and Gradle? Is mice a new thing?
rzzzt 2 days ago|||
Java also has SDKMAN!, jabba and the "alternatives" mechanism in Linux distros:

- https://sdkman.io/

- https://github.com/shyiko/jabba

- https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/update-alternative...

cheshire_cat 2 days ago||
Java is one of the few languages where I prefer the endemic/specialized version manager in the form of sdkman over mise. It has more Java versions available and also allows you to install a lot of the Java tooling like Gradle and Maven.
mrbonner 2 days ago|||
My dang autocorrect, it is mise.
xyst 2 days ago||
This is what I have been doing to manage development environments:

Workflows now revolve around nix.

Setup a shell.nix that defines development environment (whether it’s specific version of rust or python).

Then `nix develop` will setup an isolated environment. Do some work on project. Then exit shell.

No need to pollute machines environment with 100 versions of python/pip/uv.

Add in `direnv` and it will automatically activate the nix shell upon `cd`. Plays well with gui editors too, assuming direnv plugin/tooling available.

literalAardvark 2 days ago||
Almost as good as mise then, but using 2 tools, one of which no one likes to learn + insecure plugins
victor_vhv 2 days ago||
We replaced asdf in our dependency management for local development with devbox (from jetify), it gave us the sweet spot between isolated shells (no nix scripting) and easy configuration (dependencies go to devbox.json)

With asdf we ran into many troubles with broken dependencies due to wrongly installed system (brew), etc. I fear with miso we could end up in the same place.

As a sidenote, I am starting to use Taskfile to manage build scripts and such. Then I can easily reuse the scripts when I change the environment (i.e. use vendor containers in CI instead of devbox).

I am trying to avoid mixing both concepts for better flexibility and less migration overhead.

rkangel 2 days ago||
I do something very similar, although I'm still on nix-shell.

It works really well.

qn9n 1 day ago||
The nice thing about `mise` is everything is installed in `$HOME` without sudo access so the odds of it being able to run malicious code is quite low.
dayjah 2 days ago||
I have been using asdf for ~12 years, and made the switch to (what is now called) mise about ~4 years ago. This year I challenged myself to switch to nix. asdf and mise are essentially less virulent nix, after all. nix is a complete and utter phase shift for the better. However, the learning curve is steep due to atrocious documentation.

If you’re into these environment / tool managers I highly recommend giving nix a solid try for 4-6 months.

sausajez 2 days ago||
Hey, was reading your post and realised that your tag pages aren't working e.g. https://blog.vbang.dk/tag/mise/ Just in case you wanted to fix them
micvbang 2 days ago|
Thanks a lot for telling me!
jph 2 days ago||
mise is a great tool. One area where it doesn't work right out of the box is installing PostgreSQL via macOS brew, when I don't want to use Nix or Docker or Podman etc.

Here's the solution I use; perhaps someone here has a better idea?

    brew install gcc readline zlib curl openssl@1.1 ossp-uuid icu4c pkg-config
    PKG_CONFIG_PATH="$(brew --prefix)/lib/pkgconfig:$(brew --prefix icu4c)/lib/pkgconfig" \
    LDFLAGS="-L$(brew --prefix)/lib" \
    CPPFLAGS="-I$(brew --prefix)/include" \
    mise use postgres --verbose
rsanheim 2 days ago|
Mise is fantastic. Switched from asdf awhile ago and have not looked back.

I don't use the advanced task / env stuff, mostly just the tool management. Its been stable, fast, and gets out of the way.

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