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Posted by bearsyankees 3 days ago

Xfinity using WiFi signals in your house to detect motion(www.xfinity.com)
636 points | 473 commentspage 5
Squeeeez 3 days ago|
People here claiming "stick the ISP modem in a microwave oven, put on a tin foil hat and use your own device" -- do you truly, 100% trust that nobody but you has access to said "own" device?
transpute 3 days ago|
Start by implementing AP per-client authentication for Wi-Fi client devices.
Hilift 3 days ago||
Given that your ISP is monitoring your DNS, is wifi motion (usage is probably as valuable) really that bad?
jl6 3 days ago||
The race is on to find the cheapest/easiest decoy that can simulate such motion (because if everything is moving, then nothing is moving). A tube man in every corner?
transpute 3 days ago|
The race is already on for biometric fingerprinting via WiFi Sensing, e.g. via heart rate.
silisili 3 days ago||
Xfinity is the worst service I'd ever used.

I'm boring. I want a pipe, like a water pipe for data, and I'll do the rest. This makes them actively combative.

Ignoring the whole TV/landline stuff they keep pushing as that's too easy a target, they are actively hostile about just using internet.

It was way cheaper to use their modem. About $15/mo. Why? Because they want a huge hotspot network in every house. They swear it won't affect speed, but as I never got close to advertised speeds, I didn't believe that. They also act as their 'cell network' that they try to push, and basically call you an idiot for declining. In fairness their cell network is pretty cheap, but I'm just not interested.

I chose to pay more to use my own modem, and they absolutely hounded me, stopping just short of calling me stupid about once a month. Maybe it was commissioned sales people searching for people like me as a given, and getting mad when I rebuffed.

And let's not even talk about data caps. Which, by the way, using their modem exempted you. Why? I naively assume because they can't differentiate hotspot data from yours. Maybe I'm wrong.

The whole service is dystopian. I moved since luckily to a rural, middle of nowhere area that does their own fiber. It has zero of those issues, and costs about half as much for twice the speed. It makes you realize how scummy they really are.

bagels 3 days ago||
I have Xfinity as a backup isp. Bye bye!
godelski 3 days ago||
Great, I always wanted to

  - be able to spy on my neighbors
  - add more surveillance systems into my house
  - have my neighbors be able to spy on me through my walls
I get that there is utility to this thing but come on, they don't even guarantee that the information is private and they say they collect it. Does the boot really taste that good? Why are we so obsessed with surveillance and giving people the power to surveil ourselves? Why are so many devs complicit in developing these tools? Again, I can understand how there's honest and good nature utility to them, but just because something has utility doesn't mean you get to ignore any harm. This trade-off is literally the whole of ethics in engineering. Engineers both create the tools for utopia and the tools for autocracy. The bitter truth is that often tools for autocracies are created while trying to create tools for utopias. But frankly, I'm not convinced this one is in that ambiguous gray zone...
transpute 3 days ago||
15 years of research and 5 years of HN discussion. It can always get worse, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29901979

  We could use terahertz spectrum to detect specific molecules and in turn use terahertz frequencies and radios as a way to track specific ingredients in food or pollutants in the air
Is there a PKD sci-fi story about terahertz-radar smart lock breathalyzer (substances, viruses) with conditional door entry/exit rules?
WillPostForFood 3 days ago|||
Engineers both create the tools for utopia and the tools for autocracy.

It's the same tool much of the time, including here. Utopia is getting a warning there is an intruder in your residence before you walk in, or better deterring that from happening. Autocracy is the government tracking you in your house.

godelski 3 days ago||
I agree, but the reason I'm less convinced this is in that gray zone is because, frankly, break-ins are relatively rare. In general, crime is highly localized. So while I'm sure it is useful to some people, I'm quite suspicious that it is not helpful for most people. Maybe gives them peace of mind, but that peace of mind can increase paranoia. We'll just have to see the rates of false positives to false negatives...

But I do see this as an extremely useful tool for autocrats, hackers, and abusive relationships. I'm willing to bet that this is used by these malicious actors far more than your average user gets a true positive detection. And we really should be clear, the danger is far more than autocrats.

vpShane 3 days ago||
[dead]
chimeracoder 3 days ago||
One takeaway from this is that there's a strong privacy case for disabling the built-in wireless network from your ISP-provided modem/router and using your own, to reduce the number of ways that your ISP can surveil you.
o11c 3 days ago||
My home ISP's cell router (because no other internet reaches our area anymore) has almost no configurable settings (just wifi name/password/hidden), and actively forbids you from disabling wifi even though I only use it through the wired connection.

(And what limited configurability it provides is only through the app, which requires you to agree to their "molest your privacy policy". I had been content with just not installing the app , but my threat model hadn't considered this new development ...)

chatmasta 3 days ago|||
That’s always a good idea, but they’ll still be able to tell when someone is home because the outbound internet traffic will increase.

And don’t forget to set your DNS to a non-ISP resolver.

sneak 3 days ago|||
SNI is not encrypted.

You need a box downstream of your ISP devices that encrypts all traffic out over a VPN. This is what I do.

chimeracoder 3 days ago||||
> That’s always a good idea, but they’ll still be able to tell when someone is home because the outbound internet traffic will increase.

Sure, but not necessarily who is home, since they won't have the MAC address of your device(s) connecting.

Also, traffic volumes are a lot noisier of signals than you might think, given how much automated and background stuff we have these days.

calvinmorrison 3 days ago|||
So you need fake upstream downstream traffic, put your router in a lead box, use DNS over https, and then all that for nothing because the Amazon router was backdoored by the NSA too
ghurtado 3 days ago|||
Even better, don't use the Comcast router at all. It's a rip off anyway
jayd16 3 days ago||
Don't they hand out combination modem/routers? What's a cheaper alternative?
reanimus 3 days ago|||
Buy your own DOCSIS modem, opt out of renting theirs. It'll pay for itself after a few billing cycles (the modem rental fee is $15 per month)
ac29 3 days ago|||
I did this recently and found out Comcast considers some security feature that runs only on their hardware to be part of the bundle they sold us.

So, bringing your own modem gets rid of the rental fee, but requires moving to a different plan without the security feature bundled. This is of course more expensive, almost entirely negating the savings of bringing your own network equipment (I think our net savings is $5/month, which means its going to be a couple years to pay back the modem cost).

gia_ferrari 3 days ago||||
If you're on a cheaper lower speed subscription, you can often find compatible modems at thrift stores for a couple dollars. People upgrade to faster tiers and unload their old perfectly serviceable equipment good for a couple hundred megabits - fine for most needs.
jayd16 3 days ago|||
Wow, what a deal. Last I looked it was $5/mo. Spectrum doesn't give you any discount at all.

Still I thought a good DOCSIS 3.1 modem would be a few hundred.

slt2021 3 days ago|||
I bought a DOCSIS modem+wifi AP on amazon a decade ago for $50. Its been working like a champ and I have control over it.

although for the best control it is recommended to buy modem separately and wifi AP separately, because Comcast can send C&C commands to your modem over the copper cable

tripdout 3 days ago|||
If it lets you. I think Bell modem+router+AP devices always broadcast a TV network with no way of disabling it whether you have TV service or not.
anonymousab 3 days ago||
That's what a good-ol' Faraday cage is for.
gia_ferrari 3 days ago||
Or unplugging the internal antennas. Only on equipment you own, of course.
jeffbee 3 days ago||
This is piled on top of the existing strong case for all Comcast wifi equipment being hot garbage. If some confluence of poor regulations has led you to being stuck with Comcast, the least you can do for yourself is get your own DOCSIS modem and routers and access points that you control.
everdrive 3 days ago||
>tape a smartphone to your roomba

>stream audiobooks

>leave house, commit crime

djoldman 3 days ago||
I always turn off every feature on every router I don't own and use it in pass through mode.
sammyo 3 days ago|
Not with the ancient barely working WRT54G that comcast keeps nagging me to replace!
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