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Posted by spenvo 7/1/2025

Sam Altman Slams Meta’s AI Talent Poaching: 'Missionaries Will Beat Mercenaries'(www.wired.com)
344 points | 699 commentspage 10
yeyeyeyeyeyeyee 7/2/2025|
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.
lizknope 7/1/2025||
> hinting that the company is evaluating compensation for the entire research organization.

TL ; DR

Some other company paid more and got engineers to join them because the engineers care more about themselves and their families than some annoying guy's vision.

rayiner 7/2/2025||
Danger Will Robinson. Antitrust law exists again.
sashank_1509 7/1/2025||
Do we know what numbers we are talking about here. I’ve heard

1. “So much money your grandchildren don’t need to work”

2. 100M

3. Not 100M

So what is it? I’m just curious, I find 100M hard to believe but Zuck is capable of spending a lot.

zeofig 7/1/2025||
That's rich. Almost as rich as Sam.
defraudbah 7/2/2025||
Millionaires will beat missionaries, that's how zuck sees it and I cannot say he's wrong
philip1209 7/2/2025||
The modern iPhone vs. Android battle
mlinhares 7/1/2025||
That didn't work for the American colonies, Portugal and Spain were very focused on being missionaries and were beaten by the Dutch and Brits that just wanted to make money.
0xbadcafebee 7/1/2025||
90% of the reason Spain and Portugal explored the new world was for wealth (spices, gold/silver, sugar, brazilwood). The rest of the reason was to spread their religion and increase their national power. Missions only popped up 30 years after they first began colonization.

The Dutch, British, and French were initially brought to the new world because they'd heard how rich it was and wanted a piece of the pie. It took them a while to establish a hold because the Spanish defended it so well (incumbents usually win) and also they kept settling frozen wastelands rather than tropical islands.

The religiously persecuted groups (who were in no way state-sponsored) came 120 years after Spain's first forays.

MangoToupe 7/2/2025||
It's also worth noting that missions were often a chit to curry political favor with the catholic church. This was sort of the manufactured consent of the 17th century.

There's also this illuminating letter sent from King Leopold II to missionaries in the late 19th century: https://www.fafich.ufmg.br/~luarnaut/Letter%20Leopold%20II%2...

I would quote it, but it's worth reading in its entirety and is extremely blunt in its intent.

hollerith 7/1/2025|||
The motive for settling the colonies in New England was emphatically not to make money.
MangoToupe 7/1/2025|||
That really depends on the time period. The puritanical core of the Massachusetts Bay Colony was certainly replaced by commercial/trade interests long before their war with the crown.
dragonwriter 7/1/2025||||
The idea that the Spanish and Portuguese colonial effort wasn't droven by economic gain above all else is also beyond silly.
echelon_musk 7/1/2025|||
How about the Caribbean?
bilbo0s 7/1/2025||
Name the Caribbean nations that were the "winners"?
echelon_musk 7/1/2025||
You've missed my point entirely.
elros 7/1/2025|||
I believe Portuguese got there looking for a shorter route to India (money) and eventually settled the land for gold, silver, brazilwood, diamonds and sugarcane (money).
mlinhares 7/1/2025||
Nah, they very much wanted to do missionary work and find Preston John, they invested in a lot of shitty missions for absolutely no reason other than to try to convert people to the church.

Conquerors is a great read on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquerors:_How_Portugal_Forge...

And don't get me wrong, they were very successful at filling their pockets with gold, but could have been even more if they were mostly mercenaries like the brits and the dutch.

HWR_14 7/1/2025|||
In what way did the Spanish lose out to the Dutch or the Brits? Did you only think of North America and forget everything south of the rio grande (and a good deal north of it)?
megaloblasto 7/2/2025||
I can't stand missionaries.
lenerdenator 7/1/2025|
For a group of people who talk incessantly about the value of unrestricted markets, tech bros sure hate having to participate in free labor markets.

Being a missionary for big ideas doesn't mean dick to a creditor.

reverendsteveii 7/1/2025|
Capitalists don't like markets, or at least not the markets that we're told capitalism will bring about. Those markets are supposed to increase competition and drive down prices until companies are making just barely enough to survive. What capitalist wants that for himself? He wants decreased competitions and sky high prices for himself, and increased competition and lower prices for his competitors and suppliers.
Dracophoenix 7/1/2025||
> Capitalists don't like markets, or at least not the markets that we're told capitalism will bring about.

The "markets" most people learn about are artificial Econ 101 constructions. They're pedagogical tools for explaining elasticity and competition under the assumption that all widgets are equally and infinitely fungible. An assumption which ignores marginal value, individual preferences, innovation and other things that make real markets.

> What capitalist wants that for himself? He wants decreased competitions and sky high prices for himself, and increased competition and lower prices for his competitors and suppliers.

The capitalist wants to be left to trade as he sees fit without state intervention.

lenerdenator 7/2/2025|||
> An assumption which ignores marginal value, individual preferences, innovation and other things that make real markets.

If those things mattered we'd have a lot fewer people mad about the state of things.

> The capitalist wants to be left to trade as he sees fit without state intervention.

If that were true you'd see a lot fewer lobbyists in DC and state capitols. Non-compete and non-disparagement clauses wouldn't exist. Patents and copyright wouldn't either.

Dracophoenix 7/2/2025|||
> If those things mattered we'd have a lot fewer people mad about the state of things

They're mad precisely because they have differing expectations and interpretations of these things. If even they did agree, consensus shouldn't be confused with reality.

> If that were true you'd see a lot fewer lobbyists in DC and state capitols.

Lobbying is the exercise of an individual's right to petition government for redress of grievances. So long as there are complaints there will always be lobbyists.

> Non-compete and non-disparagement clauses wouldn't exist. Patents and copyright wouldn't either.

Non-compete and non-disparagement clauses are no restraint on freedoms if they were agreed upon to by way of voluntary contract. Rather, like other transactions, they are explicit trades of certain opportunities for certain benefits.

> Patents and copyright wouldn't either.

I'll give you that.

roguecoder 7/2/2025||
Regulatory capture, which all corporate lobbyists represent, is profoundly anti-capitalistic. If the CEO wants to spend their time talking to the government, that is very different than spending money to have other people advocate on their behalf: that isn't an option the rest of us have.

And that's before we get to the way wealth inequality inherently distorts markets, by overstating the preferences of the wealthy and underserving the needs of the poor.

The point of an economy is to distribute scarce goods and resources. Money represents information about what people want or expect to want in the future.

Everything wealthy people do that make it less efficient at its job is an attack on capitalism.

reverendsteveii 7/2/2025|||
In fairness, non-competes are evidence of both what the commenter you're replying to said and what I said to instigate the reply. The capitalist absolutely does want to be left alone to trade as he sees fit. He also wants his competitors harassed by regulators and all of their potential employees bound by non-competes. He also doesn't consider subsidies and grants to be interference. Unless they go to competitors.
roguecoder 7/2/2025||
They love standards so much they have two of them.
reverendsteveii 7/2/2025|||
what is his end goal in being left to trade as he sees fit? is it maximizing profit? is that the fundamental goal of all actors in this system?
Dracophoenix 7/2/2025||
His end goal is the pursuit or promotion of his own self-interest. Whether the consequence of this is the maximization of profits depends upon his goals and circumstances.
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