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Posted by todsacerdoti 7/1/2025

Using Sun Ray thin clients in 2025(catstret.ch)
108 points | 46 comments
bcantrill 7/2/2025|
This is hot! I -- like maybe everyone at Sun in the late 1990s and early 2000s? -- had a soft spot for SunRay. The original SunRay demo from Duane Northcutt to the Solaris Kernel Group in February 1999 (when it was a Sun Labs project code-named Corona) was just... jaw-dropping. Later, it was a point of personal pride that one of the first, concrete, production use-cases for DTrace came on a SunRay server (an experience that we outlined in §9 of our USENIX paper[0]). I'll always be sentimental about SunRay -- and Sun's misexecution with respect to SunRay was a lingering disappointment for many of us.

[0] https://www.usenix.org/legacy/publications/library/proceedin...

mwcampbell 7/3/2025||
For an extended, colorful telling of the experience outlined in that paper, check out Bryan's earliest recorded talk on DTrace, particularly the section starting at the timestamp in this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgmA48fILq8&t=35m6s
sys_64738 7/2/2025||
Oracle killed it and we all moved to Windows PCs.
bcantrill 7/2/2025||
Long before Oracle killed it, Sun fumbled it, sadly. The failure of SunRay to live up to its potential -- and it clearly had tremendous potential -- was Sun at its most frustrating: the company tended to became disinterested in things at exactly the moment that really called for focus.

As a concrete example, the failure to add USB printing support killed SunRay at airline kiosks in the early 2000s. American Airlines was the first airline to adopt kiosk-based check-in; they were very hot on SunRay, but needed USB printing. When American found out that Sun had just gutted the team (including everyone responsible for USB support!), they (reluctantly!) used Windows-based PCs instead. Sun tried to put the group back together, but it was too late -- and every airline followed American's lead.

Could/would SunRay have been used for airline kiosks? There are reasons to believe that it would have -- and it was certainly a better technical fit than an entire Windows PC.

There were examples like this all over the place, not just with SunRay but at Sun more broadly; despite the terrific building blocks, Sun often lacked the patience and focus to add the polish needed for a real product. (Our frustration with Sun in this regard led us to start Fishworks in 2006.[0])

RIP SunRay -- and what could have been!

[0] https://bcantrill.dtrace.org/2008/11/10/fishworks-now-it-can...

rtpg 7/2/2025|||
What would USB printing on a SunRay look like? Even in general, how do thin clients work with accessories and the like? It does feel like there's some tension between "this USB device is plugged directly into a computer" and "the computer is not 'the' computer"?

Seems like a tricky problem but clearly at least some of it was solved given USB ports were on the machine

yjftsjthsd-h 7/6/2025||
What's tricky about it? You can use USB over IP on Linux in the real world today, so I can't see any reason why you couldn't pass devices from the thin client to the server in the same way. The only slight oddity is that you would pretend that it was a USB hub that got plugged and unplugged whenever the session connected and disconnected.
rtpg 7/7/2025||
Well GP mentioned that there _wasn't_ USB printing support, right? If USB over IP "just worked" and the sunray had USB over IP support then there's USB printing support right?

But I just realized the "USB printing support" stuff was maybe less about USB printers themselves and more about being able to have, say, 30 thin clients with 30 different printers hooked up but the application would know which printer was the right one (instead of showing 30 printers available, for example)

sys_64738 7/2/2025|||
> Long before Oracle killed it, Sun fumbled it,

Oracle did try to monetize SunRay but for whatever reason it didn't meet their profit threshold. It was fantastic technology and I'm almost certain I still have the dual monitor variation in my basement somewhere.

spwa4 7/2/2025||
The point behind SunRay was to give organizations 100% control, not 99.9%, 100% over everything any of their computers were used for, like a mainframe. Of course, this made them 99.9% unusable. Because they sucked at what they were meant for, not because of Sun, but because of cheapass management under provisioning the mainframes, and they just couldn't do anything else. This meant they were unable-to-scroll-one-page-down-in-a-list-in-a-minute level of unusable in practice.

Occasionally you'd find one where the security was about as well executed as the function they were meant for and there was some fun to be had, but not much.

I find it hard to have much sympathy for SunRay. Their advantages were supposed to be price, but they were never cheap, and security, but that required hiring engineers that understand mainframe unix security, which management just didn't do.

emdashcomma 7/2/2025||
I love these things. If you want to see them in action on video, check out clabretro on YouTube: www.youtube.com/@clabretro (e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRO_M1S145M).
crmd 7/2/2025||
One of my favorite YouTube channels. I have such a nostalgic soft spot for late 90s to mid 2000s enterprise network and server tech :-)
shawnz 7/2/2025|||
The Phintage Collector also recently did some videos on Sun Ray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj_TktVOrtQ
treve 7/2/2025||
This youtube channel was an absolute rabbit hole for me.
dillona 7/2/2025||
The Sun Ray is a strong inspiration for building https://warpstations.com (currently in closed beta).

The main challenge has been building a modern remote desktop protocol that achieves high performance but without requiring GPUs for each user and works on Linux. VNC is really showing its age, and X forwarding isn't really usable over the Internet. We are also using Yubikeys instead of smart cards, though I'm looking forward to testing some of the FIDO2 cards that are on the market.

One of our colleagues said something that really resonated with me "When you're working using our system it should feel like you're sitting down at a personal supercomputer". There are always more features to build, but the basic vision of being able to sit down at any desk with our Warpbox and connect to your virtual desktop within a few seconds is a really nice workflow.

kmacleod 7/3/2025||
I may be misunderstanding, but I'm not sure I want a "remote desktop" where every process runs on the remote.

I want the original promise of X, where I choose where apps run and they are displayed locally:

• Run CAD circuit layout app on Pro server.

• Run Adobe Premiere on GPU server.

• Run distributed `make` on build cluster.

And of course, I want to be billed in resource-seconds, not per hour of a host made available to me.

guenthert 7/2/2025|||
"and X forwarding isn't really usable over the Internet."

Well, maybe not directly so, but NX (or rather X2Go) over ssh or VPN was working fine for me some ten years ago. Before that I happily used Sun Rays, but maintaining the Sun Ray server software was tedious after Oracle gave up on it.

aggregator-ios 7/2/2025||
This looks really cool. I didn't quite understand what the product did on the website, but once I read your comment, I got it.

Is there a short trial period before I pay? I didn't see it on the website. If it really does feel like real time usage like GeForce Now with gaming, then that is seriously cool.

dillona 7/2/2025||
Thank you for the feedback about the website. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts about what was unclear or how we could improve if you can email me (email in profile).

I'd be glad to set you up with credits to run the system through its paces. Right now our most valuable payment is feedback

aggregator-ios 7/2/2025||
Done!
insaneirish 7/2/2025||
Sun Rays were so good. Being able to walk over to someone else's desk and say "hey, take a look at this" and swap your card for theirs and instantly have your desktop was such a great user experience.

Also enjoyed the keyboards (with control where caps lock "normally" is)...

protocolture 7/1/2025||
I had trouble getting HP thin clients going when they were just months out of support. This is a mammoth undertaking, not to mention amazing documentation for anyone stuck with this technical debt.
theandrewbailey 7/2/2025|
I work at an e-waste recycling company. I had about 120 decommissioned HP thin clients come in last week. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with them. We have buyers that might be interested in them. I opened them all up and they all had 8 GB RAM and 128 GB SSD. While grinding through them, I realized that was more than the laptop I went to college with ~18 years ago. I haven't turned any on, but I would not be surprised if the CPUs in them are faster too. I didn't realize thin clients/dumb terminals had to be so powerful these days.
compsciphd 7/3/2025|||
modern thin clients that have a gemini lake cpu or beyond are great small plex servers. under $100 for something that can hardware decode basically all modern codecs (besides AV1, but that isn't really that prevalent) including HDR formats (and even tonemap dolby vision if that's what you want).
protocolture 7/2/2025|||
I had similar revelations when I worked in recycling.

There was a period however where semi-thin and semi-thick clients were being experimented with. Get you a fatter client, that uses thin client provisioning and can be pressed into service as a hot seat RDP/Citrix machine, or used solo for other basic purposes.

jwoglom 7/2/2025||
I never had much more than a passing familiarity with Solaris, so setting up SunRay's with OpenIndiana isn't something I've ever tried -- but the SunRay Server software actually supported Debian Linux! It is, obviously, similarly broken in the modern era, but I imagine it's possible to get working... some of the required files are at https://github.com/jwoglom/srs
grishka 7/2/2025||
Oh we had a bunch of Sun thin clients in my university, in a dedicated room where we went to get tortured with various tests. They were complete sets, with Sun branded monitors, keyboards, and mice. The system you got into was something very stripped-down unix-like (probably Solaris, but at the time I assumed it was Linux), and it ran only two things: Firefox that could only access the testing website, and a timer counting down your booked session time. The smart card functionality was completely unused. They turned those things on remotely for you when you checked in at the reception.

p.s. what's up with the capitalization in this article? Sentences not starting with capital letters are harder to read.

gedy 7/2/2025|
> p.s. what's up with the capitalization in this article?

It's some irritating trend with a few folks. Like an "oh im too busy to bother with that".

yjftsjthsd-h 7/2/2025||
It might also be interesting to try https://github.com/jwoglom/srs which is GPLv2 and works with newer JDKs.
yjftsjthsd-h 7/2/2025|
Edit but passed the window... Wrong link, should be https://github.com/classilla/kopenray
gt0 7/2/2025||
Great to see. I used them at my work almost 20 years ago, I had one at home too for easy access. I later got a Tadpole Comet Sun Ray laptop purely for nerd reasons.

With modern network speeds it's interesting to consider how good a thin client could be these days.

dillona 7/2/2025|
At our company (almost entirely engineers) we're pretty near 100% thin client usage. It's nice to be able to "download more RAM" for a big analysis job and not have to go try to buy a new system or something.

I also travel a lot, and it's great to have all of my applications and data right where I left them from any desk in any office

gt0 7/2/2025||
Nice, what thin clients are you using? After Sun Ray, I tried an Axel one, but never really found a use case for it.
dillona 7/2/2025||
Originally we used PCoIP server software and various Zero Clients (they all run the same software). Their video performance is really great, but we found it very difficult to get support for basically anything else (USB, licensing, host OS, etc).

One thing lead to another and now we're building our own server software, thin client OS (no hardware yet, we load our image on COTS x86 devices), and public VDI cloud.

pmw 7/2/2025|
Everyone now has fondness for these and for thin clients in general, but I don’t see this concept used in modern times. Is there any modern equivalent, in particular with the power of a workstation rather than a kiosk? Amazon’s WorkSpaces is anemic— low memory and high price, with their own marketing proposing it for contact centers and front desks. What modern thin client solution can truly replace full computers, especially with local / on-prem processing?
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