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Posted by taylorlunt 1 day ago

You People Keep Contradicting Yourselves(www.taylor.gl)
29 points | 34 comments
dataflow 1 day ago|
Whoa, hold on. You're engaging in a worse version of exactly what you're accusing others of.

> Do you see the problem? Rob Bailey is calling Bhavye Khetan a hypocrite because Bhavye Khetan said something that contradicts something that "people" say.

Nobody called anybody a hypocrite (nor implied it for that matter) - you entirely put those words in his mouth. All he said was that people have a common complaint that contradicts what this person is complaining about. The implication is simply that VCs have contradictory demands placed on them, so they can't fully satisfy them all. If anything, that guy was asking for people to have some sympathy for VCs who are actually willing to have a call -- not trying to smear anyone as a hypocrite!

And I point this out specifically to illustrate how unrealistic it is to expect people to avoid making assumptions that might be wrong. It's normal and human to make common assumptions -- that's how progress is made without slowing everything down to a crawl. You're not immune to it any more than anybody else. The solution to being wrong isn't to always avoid making assumptions and beat people up who do so; it's to be reasonable in doing so, and to also be more generous on the receiving side and try to understand the point they were trying to make better.

eviks 1 day ago|
> All he said was that people have a common complaint that contradicts what this person is complaining about. The implication is simply that VCs have contradictory demands placed on them, so they can't fully satisfy them all.

No, he told the author not to complaint. Why would this ask make sense? Because it's contradictory to complain about both of the opposite outcomes

dataflow 1 day ago||
> No, he told the author not to complaint. Why would this ask make sense? Because it's contradictory to complain about both of the opposite outcomes

No, it makes sense because you're a grown-up adult who can think beyond yourself and recognize when your demands would be irreconcilable with those of others, instead of a baby that complains the moment he doesn't get what he expected because his world only revolves around him. Does that make sense?

taylorlunt 1 day ago|||
This is a strange response for someone demanding generosity and charity from others.
eviks 1 day ago|||
Of course not, this is pure nonsense wrapped in an emotional baby formula. And you forgot to establish the part where everyone should assume the others are not babies (complaining adults don't want to take their call) for this to even be plausible
danscan 1 day ago||
> People will argue with an individual as if that individual is the spokesperson for a larger group. People will call someone a hypocrite not for contradicting themselves, but for contradicting other people.

This sums up what's become so exhausting about online discussion

sandspar 1 day ago||
Venkatesh Rao's "Internet of Beefs" article is useful here. He discusses how online feuds resemble battles between armies. How nameless foot soldiers enact brutal violence on other nameless foot soldiers. How after a while, the point of fighting is no longer to win, but to perpetuate violence.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2020/01/16/the-internet-of-beefs/

The article is very useful. Reading it has inspired me to improve my own online behavior.

aaron695 18 hours ago||
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szszrk 1 day ago||
I'm guilty of similar automatic responses as Rob's. Same goes for using "always" and "everyone" during arguments.

Now I'm trying to have a rule at home, that if we use "always/everyone" we automatically "lost" the argument and have to step back and rethink :)

Personally I find it hard to keep this in control and I know it takes away some ability to apply empathy (as in being in someones shoes, not pity). It's about finding a way to look at yourself from a distance. Preferably before I speak. Often it's not the case - I can do that, but in moments of relative comfort. So I'm still guilty of generalizing and blaming a person for group issues sometimes.

I'm wondering how others train themselves to increase that self awareness (and in the end practical empathy)?

Should I even try to improve it during stress/challenging situations, or rather eliminate that factor (for instance, by doing less on-the-fly calls) and try to have more talks when things are not rushed?

notarobot123 1 day ago||
The affordances of social media don't make it easy for nuanced discussion:

- Broadcast messages "perform" better with a degree of generalization

- Algorithmic feeds warp our perceptions of any shared context

- Personal risk is mitigated if you talk about the opinions of the group

- You can avoid personal disclosure by speaking in broad terms

- Responding to a comment with a more general criticism side-steps personal attacks

I think our increased tribalism is at least partly a consequence of using media with characteristics like these. Eventually, you're not thinking in terms of individuals with balanced opinions but more in terms of tribal representatives because this is often our experience.

briangriffinfan 1 day ago||
How do you point out to someone that they're doing this in a way they won't just like... knee-jerk deny and reverse? Is there no solution and this is ultimately a sign of bad-faith discussion? It feels more and more likely...
scrubs 1 day ago||
Social media makes it possible --- indeed there is a payoff for doing so --- to take extreme positions that most would not do face to face.

Getting a rise out of people is now ends to means. Getting recognition for outing a perceived flaw in other is ends for means. And it's all boils down to shadow boxing in a cage of symbolism measured by likes/followers.

Push back online drives ads, looks, traffic. Talking #^=×@@ or BSing a person face to face may not work or be attempted due to real world consequences.

Tribal modalities online in the large or niche sense is just a conventional way of doing it because it's auto magnifying. Why take a shot at one VC when you can take at shot at all VCs?

actuallyalys 1 day ago||
I sympathize with this mistake because people are often very tribalistic, at least in certain online spaces, so it can feel useless to hear people out, especially when you don’t feel they will reciprocate.

That doesn’t justify it, of course, but I think it partially explains it.

DonsDiscountGas 1 day ago||
Not exactly the point of the article, but I didn't understand how this guy lying and getting a couple meetings implies that "the game" is rigged.
notarobot123 1 day ago||
It's not what you know but who you know/where you studies/who you worked for.

Are these legitimate signals of success or signs that "the game is rigged" to advantage those with existing privilege? Both perhaps?

throwawaymaths 1 day ago||
it's rigged against people that dont have that background. because plenty of people dont have that background (possibly even equally impressive, or more hard working, better leadership experience, better ideas) and without the pedigree get passed over by vcs, but this guy could fake everything, not get vetted, and get an inbound meeting on the right credentialism.

And the irony is, the vc couldnt see it either!!

taylorlunt 1 day ago||
I pointed out in the article that this is the system working as intended. Getting a meeting with a VC is not the same thing as getting an investment. And if you're getting thousands of emails, it makes sense to prioritize the most impressive-sounding people as opposed to choosing randomly or something.

There was also no control for this experiment, so we don't know what the alternative even looks like.

throwawaymaths 1 day ago||
i think youre missing the point. because it is so utterly lazy, in many ways the signals that vcs are looking at might be antisignals, in the same way that being in "30 under 30" is not a great signal for potential but maybe a good signal for fraud/being great at getting coffee at morgan stanley.

and if it is, it's toxic because people get into entrepreneurship because they think they have a shot. if they don't, because stupid credential X is not in their pocket, why the fuck should they even try?

of course there is not control. this is a tweet, not a submission to PNAS

lijok 1 day ago||
Isn’t it obvious? It happens because we’re lazy. We’re just looking for the cheapest way to validate our existing worldview.
atoav 15 hours ago|
Everybody can fall into these traps, depending on the circumstances. There are some assumptions one should be careful to make when online:

1. Assuming you know how the person thinks from a small sample of comments they made. You may have missed the context (can happen on this platform sometimes since the reply may be very distant to the comment it replied to)

2. Assuming what you think they said is what they said for real. Topics that you dealt with can prime you to read certain things in certain ways. This can be bad if you mentally start adding words or sentiments that are not there.

3. Assuming someone is attacking you, personally. Most people don't know each other online, if someone responds critically to you the chances are very high they don't know you and are mostly focused on what you wrote. Maybe they have a point, maybe they read something into it and critque a point you didn't make or maybe they are a troll (so someone who is purposely inflammatory). But it is very rare for someone to attack a person for who they are. If you're attacked you're attacked for what you represent.

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