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Posted by thm 15 hours ago

Colombia seizes first unmanned narco-submarine with Starlink antenna(www.france24.com)
132 points | 142 comments
willvarfar 11 hours ago|
The definitive source for this stuff - he literally wrote the book on it - is H I Sutton http://www.hisutton.com/

He does videos on youtube too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO-VQllYIZo

Its very likely the mainstream media pick up this stuff because they follow him :D

blackhaj7 4 hours ago|
Wow, that website has some interesting stuff on it!
rkagerer 13 hours ago||
"The vessel was not carrying drugs"

Why wouldn't they track it and wait until it rendezvoused with people they could arrest?

Also, today I learned it's illegal to operate a semi-submersible in Colombia.

DanielVZ 12 hours ago||
I wonder how much of this is just a publicity stunt. Last time I dove deep into studying corruption in Latin America at University, Colombia was pretty much captive to the cartels. Hope it has gotten better now but I’m not sure if that’s the case given the massive Colombian diaspora that keeps increasing.
chasil 4 hours ago|||
The thought is that things had improved in Columbia, until a recent attempt on a Columbian senator.

Miguel Uribe is in the minority conservative party and was shot three times at campaign event by an underage youth who was hired for this purpose. A number of arrests have taken place.

The leftist president Gustavo Petro has not strongly reacted against this event, and the U.S. recently recalled their ambassador for somewhat confusing reasons (Columbia did the same).

https://thecitypaperbogota.com/

mdhb 10 hours ago|||
I just came across this podcast in the last week after wondering what ever happened to the FARC and AUC (right wing death squads) after the peace deal. How did things end up playing out relative compared to what was expected and feared at the time.

It’s a pretty batshit story that focuses on what became of the right wing death squads (they run the start of the cocaine supply chain it turns out among many other things) that’s extremely well researched and has amazing access. A strong recommendation from me https://insightcrime.org/audio-from-the-ground-up/the-shadow...

philipallstar 2 hours ago||
FARC was left-wing death squads; AUC far right counter-death squads.
achow 12 hours ago||
Perhaps because they watched it long enough to know that it is not going to rendezvous with anyone, and if they wait longer it may turn around and they will lose sight of it?
LorenPechtel 53 minutes ago||
It very well might have a camera--they knew they had been seen and couldn't just tail it.
93po 21 minutes ago||
it'd be really silly to have a long distance anything with full starlink bandwidth and not transmit images or video. they would have seen law enforcement catch it and poke at it for sure. and even if it was just telemetry, they'd see it was stationary for some period of time, and maybe even detect it was out of the water for a prolonged period of time
lordnacho 3 hours ago||
Why not make a solar-electric narcosub? That way you don't need fuel, and you're not relying on an IC engine with a bunch of moving parts, and that has a heat signature. The sun is shining in the ocean that these cartels are sailing in anyway, so there should be power.

Steer with GPS, that way you are only listening.

I wouldn't rely on Starlink, it seems like something that could be discovered easily. Any authority that had a map of where legit ships are could filter down to the mysterious Starlinks that are in the middle of the water, but near a remote coast, having traveled from Colombia, not on a known vessel.

Maybe if you need the comms, you rely on radio. Whatever the ham radio people use could perhaps be made into something. You don't need a lot of bandwidth anyway.

I guess the question is economics, then. How many trips could you get on a little boat that has a solar panel, electric engine, a battery, GPS, and a radio? And what would that cost?

kjksf 2 hours ago|
Because solar panel math doesn't work.

It's the same reason it makes no sense to put solar panels on a car: the solar panels would add minutes of driving daily.

You would need massive area of solar panels to power a sub which is obviously not workable if you want to be stealthy.

mbirth 1 hour ago|||
RCTestFlight begs to differ:

> 72hrs On My Unlimited Range Solar Boat > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc2PFExZXas

93po 16 minutes ago||
a narco sub could easily be 50x the weight, needs to move significantly faster (RCTF boat is going like 5mph tops), and is fighting against extremely strong currents and waves (RCTF is on extremely still calm water).
lordnacho 2 hours ago|||
But I'm thinking of a sub that is mostly just a solar panel. You don't need to be able to put a person in it? Don't you get a few hundred watts from a square meter?
15155 2 hours ago||
You need far more than a few hundred watts to move something in the open water, and these semi-submersibles aren't typically more than 30' vessels.

The math doesn't work out.

hugoromano 4 hours ago||
Wrong antenna choice—should've used Starlink Mini to avoid motor damage from oscillation and salt exposure. Some suggest fiber optics instead of satellite comms, but these aren't submarines—they're boats, and autopilot technology is already reliable. Not sure why real-time communication is necessary; a "fire and forget" approach would suffice to reach the intended target.
rozhok 1 hour ago|
Starlink dish does not require "leg" with motors for proper operation.
julianeon 13 hours ago||
I'm kind of curious how much this matters to Colombia now. For this who haven't been following the drug wars, most of the action, and money, has moved to Mexico. If you only know this stuff through pop culture, Mexico today is what Colombia was in the 80's and 90's: the violence, level of corruption, money flowing through, etc.
cammikebrown 12 hours ago||
Cocaine is still produced overwhelmingly in South America. Yes, it does have to go through Mexico. But the start of the trade route is Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru.
julianeon 1 hour ago|||
It's important from a supply chain perspective, but not in the getting-rich-off-of-this sense anymore. The analogy I use is Apple in the USA (Mexico) and Foxconn in China (Colombia).
muststopmyths 5 hours ago|||
Also Mexican cartels are wreaking havoc in coastal Ecuador, which is being used in an alternative sea route for drug shipments north.

So yeah, South America is still a main hub of the drug trade.

sleepyguy 13 hours ago|||
Colombia is the main producer of illegal cocaine, responsible for 70 to 80 percent of the world's supply. It is the largest producer in the world.
julianeon 1 hour ago||
Colombia produces the raw materials, so it is "essential" in that sense, but that is not where the money and power is now (that's Mexico). Kind of like how your iPhone is manufactured in China, but the world's-richest-company status goes to Apple, in the US.

Quoting an AI summary (because I'm looking for a quick answer here):

Mexico has become the primary financial beneficiary of cocaine money today. Mexican cartels now control the most lucrative parts of the supply chain - smuggling into the US market and wholesale distribution. They've essentially become the "middlemen" who buy cocaine from Colombian producers at relatively low prices and then sell it in the US at much higher prices, capturing most of the profit margin.

Colombia remains important as a producer of coca and cocaine, but the economics have changed dramatically. Colombian groups now often function more as suppliers to Mexican cartels rather than controlling the entire supply chain themselves. The raw materials and initial processing generate far less revenue than the final distribution stages.

GardenLetter27 3 hours ago||
And Ecuador, sadly.
bob1029 5 hours ago||
I wonder what it's like being a developer / systems engineer for the cartel.
dawatchusay 3 hours ago||
I imagine you couldn’t keep pushing deadlines out indefinitely like we can in American software companies.
arthurcolle 4 hours ago|||
Probably pretty scary
wiradikusuma 3 hours ago|||
I'm sure it's very rewarding, but I'm also sure it's a one-way street. So either enjoy your single life while it lasts, and/or use crypto to channel your income to people you care, without being able to enjoy it _with_ them for their own safety.
treebeard901 3 hours ago||
I have always wanted to do this but it's not like they post on LinkedIn
stickfigure 14 hours ago||
Just legalize it already. This is stupid.
anuvrat1 10 hours ago||
Cartels are already diversifying, thanks to bullish gold market they are going full tilt on gold. "In Colombia and Peru gangs are now thought to make more money from gold than from the sale of narcotics."[1]

[1]: https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2025/06/26/the-gold-b...

whatever1 13 hours ago|||
Even if they do, the cartels already own huge man & firepower. They will just move on to the next thing, maybe coffee, avocados, oil whatever.

When you have accumulated so much power you can demand cash from the world around you.

stickfigure 13 hours ago|||
Coffee, avocados, and oil aren't illegal. But I'm pretty sure if you banned coffee it would spawn criminal gangs that made 1920s prohibition look tame.

There's no substitute for the margins you can get in the illegal drug trade. Take away the primary source of funding and you make it much easier to break the gangs. We've already gone through this. Just legalize it already.

clvx 7 hours ago|||
They already extortion every single producer. Any coffee and avocado coming from South America has an extortion tax somewhere in the supply chain whether it’s to the farmers, shipping companies, distribution center warehouses at port or whatever you imagine. The extortion comes as placing gang members as part of security, real threats or just bribes to unlock to keep moving towards the consumer.

Illegal goods have better margins but extortions provide a platform for power and money with less effort.

bjourne 48 minutes ago||||
Wasn't that same argument used for legalizing cannabis? How did that work out?
whatever1 10 hours ago|||
They could set a 1000% tax on the coffee produced, if they can consolidate control. Latin America is 50% of the world coffee production. What will Starbucks / Nestle do? They will just pay up. They can even go against the families of the execs to make their case about the new price.
hiccuphippo 6 hours ago|||
> What will Starbucks / Nestle do?

Finance wars. Like with the "Ten Cents War": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific

torbid 6 hours ago||||
They tried this before with fruit. The US companies just sold their interest in production and have plenty of other options for acquisition if they try to tax beyond the relative ease of South America verse anywhere else in the global south.

I would agree that letting black market bs continue will eventually lead to groups that could threaten global control on random other commodities but that's no reason kick the can further down this road.

potato3732842 39 minutes ago||||
>They could set a 1000% tax on the coffee produced.

No they couldn't. That'd just mint another cartel run black market that they don't control and that cartel would tax the black market coffee at substantially less.

You can kind of think of the current drugs situation as a "so big the number doesn't matter, it's a non stater" percent tax.

arijun 6 hours ago|||
Part of the reason such a large percentage of coffee is grown there is because it's cheap. The cartels can (and do) make profit on legitimate crops, but they can't magically rewrite the rules of capitalism.
techjamie 5 hours ago||
Coffee beans are notoriously picky about their environment. But with modern technology, it wouldn't surprise me if large companies would resort to growing it in artificial greenhouses, or putting more stock in breeding plants that can be grown elsewhere.
potato3732842 40 minutes ago||||
Exactly. These cartels are basically competing governments. They're in the drugs industry in the same way that there's state oil industries. The only choose crime because that activity has to exist outside the existing government system.
preciousoo 12 hours ago||||
They'll probably move onto mass producing weaponry, which, depending on the sophistication and scale, could be big issues for the rest of the world. They already partner with terrorist groups and other unsavory orgs as-is. Any group worth mentioning these days interfaces with the cartels
reactordev 11 hours ago||
I don’t think weapon production is in their wheelhouse. Arms dealing maybe but not manufacturing. Facilities like those are permanent locations. Permanent locations tend to get raided and attacked.

I think controlling municipalities like they are is working fine for them. No need to mass produce weapons when you can just buy them.

15155 1 hour ago|||
Where do you think this submersible was manufactured?
olyjohn 1 hour ago||
Building a couple of small boats isn't the same as mass producing weapons. I can build cars in my garage, but I'd need a machine shop full of extremely heavy equipment and tons of metal stock to build guns.
whatever1 10 hours ago|||
They do have expertise in manufacturing and managing manufacturing facilities and logistics though. Likely the production equipment is not very sophisticated/ hard to reproduce if destroyed. I don’t expect them to produce state of the art F35s anyway.
eviks 13 hours ago||||
Not really, the competition with the existing governments will significantly limit the amount of replacement cash they can demand, so they won't be able to sustain the same scale of man/firepower
Jemm 6 hours ago|||
Applies to corporations as well but they do it legally and we consider part of our 'economy'. Heck we even subsidize them and give them the power to lobby and legally be a 'person'.

- Problem? What Problem? I don't see no stinkin' Problem!

baxtr 12 hours ago|||
Which drugs exactly are you proposing to be legalized? All?
cluckindan 9 hours ago||
That would be the humane and sensible thing to do, so obviously we are not going to do that. Let’s double down on enforcement so violence, corruption and profits increase.

We really did not learn anything from the alcohol prohibition.

soraminazuki 6 hours ago||
It's not a choice between legalization of all drugs or violence and corruption. Sure, the way the US cracked down on drugs did more harm than good. But that doesn't mean there should be no regulation for drugs whatsoever.

Take the opioid epidemic for example. It claimed the lives of hundreds of people per day. Do you think "humane and sensible" people were responsible for that?

cluckindan 5 hours ago|||
The opioid epidemic is not a great example, as it began by overprescription of legal, regulated medicinal drugs. The problem blew up when authorities started cracking down on those prescriptions, and the newly dependent started seeking drugs from illegal sources. Those sources included clandestinely produced heroin and fentanyl, leading to massive numbers of overdose deaths.

In other words, it was the enforcement of prohibition that ultimately caused more societal and health issues than the quasi-legal sales of hard drugs. It definitely wasn’t the doing of ”humane and sensible” policies!

So you see, it is actually a choice between legalization of all drugs or violence and corruption.

The system can only regulate drugs when they are legal.

Illegal drugs combined with enforcement of prohibition pits producers, traffickers, dealers and users against the police and ultimately the army, which are usually the only groups of people who have a state-sanctioned mandate to use violence against other people.

How could violence not result, when it is an integral part of the alleged ”solution”?

Just add pervasive income inequality, throw in some general lack of future prospects mixed with widely publicized lies about the billionaire class being entirely self-made through hard work, and baby, you got a stew going, and the people getting thrown in the hot water are already boiling over.

soraminazuki 3 hours ago||
That's quite some wall of one insane libertarian take after another that it's impossible to keep up. Regulating drugs isn't the same thing as turning into a police state.

> The opioid epidemic is not a great example

You think the issue of regulating heroin and fentanyl is comparable to alcohol prohibition, but not the opioid epidemic?

> The problem blew up when authorities started cracking down on those prescriptions

The problem blew up when pharmaceutical companies deceitfully advertised addictive pain killers as safe and aggressively prescribed them to even those who didn't need it. It would've been prevented if the government adequately stepped in before it happened. It was already too late when authorities started cracking down, and to frame that time as the starting point of the problem is blatantly disingenuous.

> It definitely wasn’t the doing of ”humane and sensible” policies!

It's you who's framing the deregulation of OxyContin, heroin, and fentanyl as "humane and sensible," not me.

> So you see, it is actually a choice between legalization of all drugs or violence and corruption.

No, you haven't presented a single supporting argument that stands the test of logic and common sense.

> The system can only regulate drugs when they are legal.

What kind of logic is that? The only way to regulate something is to not regulate? What kind of mind games are you playing here?

> Illegal drugs combined with enforcement of prohibition pits producers, traffickers, dealers and users against the police and ultimately the army, which are usually the only groups of people who have a state-sanctioned mandate to use violence against other people.

Just because the US tries to solve every social issue with over-policing, police militarization, and mass incarceration doesn't mean that it's the only solution.

> Just add pervasive income inequality, throw in some general lack of future prospects mixed with widely publicized lies about the billionaire class being entirely self-made through hard work, and baby, you got a stew going, and the people getting thrown in the hot water are already boiling over.

Yes, and you think having more would-be Sacklers selling highly addictive drugs without anyone to stop them is a solution to that? Give us a break. Libertarianism doesn't stop billionaires and their exploitation of everyone else.

cluckindan 37 minutes ago||
Thank you for the strawmen. I will burn them at Christmas.

Do you really think ”legal” means unregulated? That, if something, is a libertarian viewpoint.

Think about how many regulations you need to fulfill to be able to legally build a house, or employ a person. Are those things completely unregulated? How about the fuel you purchase at a gas station? Ever get only water or nitromethane instead of unleaded gas? Of course you haven’t, because you are buying a legal, regulated product.

Making drugs legal would make it possible to enforce standards of quality, labeling, age limits, et cetera before the products ever got to market.

By making drugs illegal, the society has abandoned all those controls and replaced them with the threat of violence: enforcement of behavior instead of enforcement of regulations.

That does not sound like freedom to me.

(Please don’t start arguing that murder also needs to be legalized, we both know that is not what I’m arguing for.)

quickthrowman 3 hours ago|||
> Take the opioid epidemic for example. It claimed the lives of hundreds of people per day. Do you think "humane and sensible" people were responsible for that?

If an opiate addict could get their daily heroin legally for $10/day, there would be no black market filled with poorly dosed fentanyl pills that kill people.

The amount of overdose deaths is caused by enforcement forcing the market to select an inferior product, fentanyl

I’m not advocating for making opiates legal, for what it’s worth. I’ve been addicted to heroin, suboxone got me clean.

cluckindan 18 minutes ago||
Not even $10: one tablet of buprenorphine costs like $1 at the pharmacy. Probably more in the US, though.
l0ng1nu5 13 hours ago|||
The only conclusion i can draw from all this insanity is that the powers that be want things to be this way.
vineyardmike 12 hours ago||
Of course, "the powers that be" can want things to change, but not want to pay the cost required to truly change it.

As hyperbole, you can stop all court cases, assume everyone is guilty if they're arrested, and give everyone capital punishment. That would most likely end cartel issues rather quickly, but it would absolutely mess with society to a dangerous level. El Salvador took a (less hyperbolic) extreme approach, and it dramatically reduced crime, but it's not clear that citizens are actually happy with this outcome as.

Of course, it could be possible that leaders are corrupt, but it could simply be that the cost to fixing things is very high.

all2 13 hours ago|||
The outcomes are bad for all parties involved.
numpad0 12 hours ago|||
Or fix up the Latin America. Just stop pretending US has no control over internal politics of foreign countries.
DragonStrength 8 hours ago|||
We don't do that precisely because that's how you end up with this situation. We wonder how history repeats itself, but we can't be bothered to know history from over 40 years ago.
clvx 6 hours ago||
60 years actually but for the recent criminality you need to look to Venezuela’s attempt of revolution in the late 10’s which generated the expansion of the Tren de Aragua which evolved extortion from random events to an enterprise level kind of thing.
reactordev 11 hours ago||||
The US made this.
mdhb 10 hours ago|||
That’s a really smart idea, I don’t know why nobody thought of this or tried for multiple decades before.
Synaesthesia 8 hours ago||
The US is a big part of the problems of Latin America. They participate in the drug trade, big time.
gambiting 13 hours ago|||
Cocaine, I could maybe see the argument. But the article also said there was another submarine seized with 4.5BN worth of meth aboard. And I really hope you aren't suggesting legalising meth. I could see the argument that if other amphetamines were legal no one would use meth, but.....I don't think that's necessarily true. All the illegal meth would have to do to keep existing is to be cheaper than legal speed.
bigmadshoe 13 hours ago|||
The war on drugs has failed.

Everyone agrees that no-one should do meth. But the solutions presented so far by prohibition are not just conceptually flawed - they demonstrably don’t work. We literally have 50+ years of data that shows it.

We need to a) legalize drugs, b) provide proper treatment to addicts, and c) get unsafe drugs off the streets.

I’m speaking as someone who lost a close family member to an overdose. What we’re doing now is not working.

crackrook 12 hours ago||
I know we have data that shows just how harmful the war on drugs has been, but I'm curious if we have data showing that legalization in a modern society, with global supply chains and marketing campaigns, does not result in a bunch of people who previously wouldn't have done drugs - for fear of legal consequences, or just because they're hard to obtain - suddenly doing drugs. I'm genuinely interested to know, this isn't something I've made up my mind about.

I finally managed to quit vaping a year ago after starting as a teen. To be honest, if I could get a dime bag at the corner store, I'm not certain that I would be able to resist the temptation to do so for the first time or umpteenth time. Speaking only for myself, I suspect I would be a happier and more productive member of society if it continued to be the case that these chemicals were inaccessible to me. I'm interested to know if there's data suggesting that I'm mistaken or just an outlier.

Just given what I know about the issue (which, admittedly, isn't a lot), I feel decriminalizing possession and keeping distribution illegal would be my first choice. I want people to be able to test their drugs for fentanyl without fear of legal consequences, but I'm reluctant to trust corporations or individuals not to push addictive poison into the hands of the vulnerable when there are profit incentives and no legal boundaries.

jillesvangurp 6 hours ago|||
Most places that focus on treatment rather than punishment see drops in all the relevant stats for deaths, crime, health issues, etc. related to drugs usage. And even drops in drug abuse itself. The one thing that has never really worked and continues to create endless amounts of misery is the war on drugs and all the collateral damage it causes.

It never worked. Not even a little bit.

nosioptar 3 hours ago||||
When weed was illegal, buying weedeant calling a guy who also dealt in opiates and meth. When they didn't have weed, they'd try to upsell you on harder stuff.

Now that I can get weed at a legit store, I have no clue where to get the harder stuff. My dozens of hookups have all left the field.

crackrook 1 hour ago|||
When I bought weed as a teen, I bought from all kinds of characters, but meth and opiates were never on the menu for me.
gambiting 3 hours ago|||
On the other hand I'd love to try weed but I'm terrified of both the potential legal consequences where I live as well as just interacting with drug dealers is not something I need in my life. The potential payoff doesn't seem worth the risk. But I can promise you that the day is becomes legal where I live I'm going to buy some to finally give try it.
prmoustache 10 hours ago||||
> "or just because they're hard to obtain "

Are they?

I have the feeling they are easier to obtain than if they were only sold at dedicated stores and teenagers had to show an ID, or similar to casinos addict trying to get out could ask to be put on ban list.

Having said that, legalizing would not get rid of cartels, who are very diversified and also operate illegally on legal products by taxing producers and controlling transport and distribution. It would merely allow us to spend the same amount of money on health care and prevention so that less people get addicted and those who are have more chances of rehab.

If war on drug worked, you would see addicts accross the country in the news complaining that their dealers are all in jail and they can't find a new one. Or saying that their dealers do not have any stock so they have to travel to get their fix. Has this ever happened?

crackrook 2 hours ago||
At least in my circles I'd have a much harder time getting access to meth or heroin than I would a product that can be bought from a special store. I imagine there are many individuals like me, but I'm not sure, which is why I ask for data.

There's no doubt in my mind that addicts know how to find dealers, and don't have trouble finding new dealers when their former dealer gets arrested. What I'm worried about and asking for data about is the possibility of legalization creating a new cohort of addicts who would start to use hard drugs if they were to be as conveniently-obtained as liquor.

I'm not advocating for the war on drugs, to be clear, I'm dubious about treating hard drugs like alcohol, tobacco, or weed (in some states). I still lean towards decriminalization of possession and harm-reduction as being better policy, but I recognize it doesn't solve all the issues.

kjkjadksj 36 minutes ago||
Within your circles it may be hard. But if tasked to get some hard drugs today in a big city you could easily get it done. Find the tweakers who are very public in most cities and ask if they’d sell you drugs.
gambiting 24 minutes ago||
I have absolutely no idea where I'd find a "tweaker"(maybe that's a statement on where I live more than anything? and I would never have the courage to go up to them and ask to buy drugs. I imagine best case they'd laugh and ask if you're a cop, worst case they'd sell you god knows what or rob you. It's just completely incomparable to going to a store to buy a product.
amanaplanacanal 9 hours ago||||
In most countries alcohol and tobacco are legal and widely available. They are both highly addictive and hazardous to health. And yet society mostly carries on, though we do lose some quantity of people to both of them.
crackrook 2 hours ago||
I have a few reasons I might more willingly accept the legality of alcohol, I believe they're also the reasons prohibition didn't work:

1. Alcohol is deeply embedded in human culture, to get a significant portion of society to stop using it would be like trying to get people to stop eating bread or to stop having sex. It would be expensive and unproductive to enforce.

2. Alcohol is easy, though more dangerous, to make. To prohibit it would be to turn people towards more-dangerous moonshine.

3. Relatively speaking, alcohol's health effects aren't that bad; it's poison, but it's only very mild poison. Overindulging on alcohol once mostly leads to a hangover, it's difficult to drink enough alcohol to kill yourself and it starts to get unpleasant before you reach that point. The real dangers of alcohol seem to come with chronic use.

4. Alcohol is not extremely addictive. It seems most people can somewhat regularly partake without becoming alcoholics. In my understanding most addictive drugs won't get you hooked the very first time you try them, but trying them a few times is usually all it takes. Anecdotally, having used both, sometimes in excess, I find it much easier to resist a drink than nicotine.

If you pair these with the other harms and expenses of general drug prohibition (organized crime, disproportionate criminalization of minorities, etc) it becomes very hard to justify the prohibition of alcohol, in my mind.

Some of those things apply to tobacco too but to a lesser degree, so the case for illegalizing it might have some legs, although I suspect it's not worth it either. I might argue that burning tobacco products, specifically, should be illegalized due to the fact that there are several known, practical, and less destructive nicotine delivery methods. Lozenges, patches, and vapes work, and so far seem to be much less catastrophic for one's health. It's not clear to me that you'd get murderous tobacco cartels who lace their product with fentanyl.

reactordev 11 hours ago||||
making drugs legal doesn’t mean it will be available at your local corner store. I’m all for keeping certain volumes of distribution illegal but no good has come from the war on drugs.
crackrook 10 hours ago||
Yep I misunderstood "legal" to mean "regulated like alcohol/tobacco" or "unscheduled" in this context and "decriminalized" to be the colloquial term meaning "legal to own and use but illegal to sell." My mistake!
vineyardmike 12 hours ago|||
> To be honest, if I could get a dime bag at the corner store, I'm not certain that I would be able to resist the temptation to do so for the first time

When people discuss "legalizing drugs" in the context of ending the war on drugs, they don't necessarily mean it should be sold at corner stores. Generally the exception to this is Cannabis which has its own legalization movement, but not hard drugs.

> I feel decriminalizing possession and keeping distribution illegal would be my first choice

This is usually what legalization means in most practical policy discussions. They want to make possession legal or "de-criminalized", not distribution. Because they want addicts to feel safe seeking help.

Portugal had a big "legalization" push around 2000 which saw a huge uptick in rehab and addiction treatment cases, and it's often the program advocates point to. Oregon tried this in 2020, but didn't couple it with strong social support (recovery programs) and rolled it back a few years later. Oregon is often what detractors point to.

vidarh 7 hours ago|||
Decriminalising without legalising manufacturing and distribution is a pretty shitty compromise, because it leaves lack of control of the safety of the drugs, and the violence and other criminality through the entire chain.
crackrook 10 hours ago|||
I see. I understood "legalization" to mean the same thing in this context that it means for cannabis, e.g. legal to distribute/purchase for recreational use. I should have clarified, thank you.
Synaesthesia 8 hours ago||||
Addicts need help, if we want to reduce drug use we can do it through education and support. That's how tobacco use has dropped in western countries, not by banning it and using violence.
stickfigure 12 hours ago||||
We already have legal meth, it's branded Adderall® and we regularly prescribe it to children, grad students, and hedge fund managers. You just have to be rich enough to afford the 'scrip.
blincoln 9 hours ago|||
Adderall is an amphetamine, but it is not methamphetamine. It would be closer to accurate to compare it to Dexedrine than meth.
nandomrumber 9 hours ago||
Isn't Dexedrine just slow release dextroamphetamine?

There isn't really a whole lot of difference between amphetamine and methamphetamine. Meth is, weight for weight, stronger due to the methyl- group enabling the molecule to pass through cell membranes / the blood-brain barrier easier, and at the effect-equivalent dose most people wouldn't notice any difference.

scns 7 hours ago||
Adderall is a mixture of 75% Dextroamphetamine and 25% Levoamphetamine.
tayo42 12 hours ago||||
The brand name is Desoxyn for meth
lupusreal 6 hours ago|||
I do think Adderall should be available OTC to everybody. It's an open secret that rich kids with no legitimate mental issues buy prescriptions for adderall to boost their school and job performance. The popular talk of "ADHD brains" for which Adderall works differently is pseudoscience tacitly endorsed by the medical community to make people feel okay about using these drugs. They don't just boost the school performance of people who have ADHD, they do that for everybody. It's a relatively harmless drug in the vein of caffeine, almost everybody would benifit from using it, not just the people with diagnosed attention disorders. Broad legalization would level the playing field.

Meth is different, even though it's basically the same if you look at it reductively. Meth hits you fast, it's not slow release. It gives you mind melting sex and gives you psychosis if you use it a lot. In a world where Adderall is easily and legally accessible to everybody, meth will remain desirable and ruinous.

kjkjadksj 33 minutes ago||
I wouldn’t say it is relatively harmless like caffeine. You hardly notice an effect from caffeine. You take adderall you are noticeably stimming on the other hand. You feel quite high and it is in no way subtle.
inemesitaffia 12 hours ago|||
The $amount is dishonest.

Check the weight then compare with wholesale prices

billy99k 4 hours ago||
This has been a failed experiment. When you legalize drugs, it comes at increased cost due to taxes and regulations.

The black market can easily compete because they can sell a cheaper product without either of these things (and now that it's legal, it makes it easier to bring shipments into the country under the guise of a legal business) and it eventually drives the legitimate companies out of business.

This has now been seen in both Colorado and California.

Violence still drives the business and it only makes the cartels richer. I'm also tired of all the pot smoke you can smell everyone now in every US city where it's legalized.

The people like me, that didn't want drugs legalized, predicted all this would happen a decade or so ago.

Update: you know I'm right

greenavocado 4 hours ago||
In the future millions of kilometers of cartel owned fiber optic will be laid from Columbia to the United States
afthonos 4 hours ago|
Columbia is in the United States. Colombia is not.
Scoundreller 13 hours ago||
> No drugs were found

That’s some level of confidence on the part of the Colombian military. I thought it was still customary to declare at least half otherwise nobody would believe you.

supertrope 2 hours ago||
Some smuggling submarines are towed behind a boat. When the authorities stop the boat the smugglers cut the towing cable and sink the submarine.
mdhb 10 hours ago||
It’s possible they interdicted this on a test run.
Roark66 6 hours ago|
Next one will lie 300km of it's own fiber optic cable.
cyanydeez 5 hours ago|
The next one after that will have a hologram of donald trump and atomatically try to bribe the officials with a detention center and bitcoins.
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