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Posted by azeemba 8/31/2025

“This telegram must be closely paraphrased before being communicated to anyone”(history.stackexchange.com)
775 points | 135 commentspage 3
fijiaarone 9/1/2025|
“Close” meant secret in the 1940s. A “close secret” was next to “top secret” classification.

See also the use of the word “close” in literature, eg The Lord of the Rings “Gandalf is closer that ever”.

To keep it close or to hold it close meant to keep it secret.

astro19238_ 8/31/2025||
As close to the original as possible not using the same phrasing? Obviously?
lalalandland 8/31/2025||
Lowercase E is unusual in the text. Is it a special teletype font?
holyshitsss 8/31/2025||
This reminds me of similar discussions we've been having about this topic. The key challenge I see is implementation at scale.
pyuser583 8/31/2025||
Known-plaintext attacks aside, if you're going to compress text, it must be done before encryption.

I don't know if compression offers much protection against plaintext attacks.

This also makes me wonder how helpful AI is in such situations. AI is essential an extremely effective, lossy, compression algorithm.

hcs 8/31/2025||
Compression + encryption can be dangerous if the compression rate is exposed somehow (between messages or within packets of a message).

> we show that it is possible to identify the phrases spoken within encrypted VoIP calls when the audio is encoded using variable bit rate codecs

https://crypto.stackexchange.com/a/2188

See also https://breachattack.com/ when the plaintext is partially attacker-controlled.

bee_rider 8/31/2025||
If nothing else it would make a great twist in a fiction setting.

These paraphrasing instructions could be followed. But the paraphrasing could be done using some LLM. A sufficiently advanced adversary manages to invert the model somehow, and as a result can get the original plain text out of the paraphrased message, which lets them do a known-plaintext attack, get the key, and use it on other messages.

Sort of technobabble (is the idea of inverting an LLM nonsense?) but fun.

brcmthrowaway 8/31/2025||
How come this isnt a problem with modern cryptography? What did we invent?
ars 8/31/2025||
You add a random number to the encryption key, and also send that random number (seed) as part of the message.

Boiled down to the very essence modern cryptography is: Using a secret seed plus a public seed, generate a long random number (of the same length as the message), then XOR that number with the message.

The hard part is generating that random number in such a way that you can not reverse the process and reclaim the secret seed.

Lookup "initialization vector" for more.

syncsynchalt 9/1/2025||
In short: cipher modes, IVs, nonces, and random padding.
dehrmann 8/31/2025||
I guess CBC and IVs (or similar) weren't invented yet?
s20n 9/1/2025||
Well, that's one way to make it CPA-secure
jabedude 8/31/2025|
How is this solved in modern cryptography?
syncsynchalt 9/1/2025||
Generally speaking, in two different ways: (a) cipher modes will usually use a combination of initialization vectors, block chaining, or an incrementing counter to perturb the encipherment of each block so that repeated data does not result in repeated ciphertext and (b) encrypted protocols will include a section to be filled with random "nonce" data so that repeatedly enciphering the same message will also result in different ciphertext, and might also add random padding so that the length of ciphertext can't be used to deduce the length of a particular message.
dsamarin 8/31/2025||
Modern cryptography solves this by using randomness (IVs, nonces, padding, salts) so that even identical plaintexts encrypt to different ciphertexts, eliminating predictable patterns.
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