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Posted by novateg 9/1/2025

Israel committing genocide in Gaza, scholars group says(www.aljazeera.com)
381 points | 199 comments
feb012025 9/2/2025|
Here's something I did that's very eye opening.

- Use ChatGPT to get a list of landmarks in Gaza (historical, religious, medical, educational...)

- Find the wikipedia for a landmark (hit or miss), and copy the coordinates from the upper right hand corner

- Open "Google Earth" and paste the coordinates

- Use the "Show historical imagery" button to compare the 2023 image to the most recent

You'll see with your own eyes that the majority of all notable landmarks are just about destroyed, obviously targeted, and most of the google earth images are at least a year old.

Every single university ChatGPT lists as the top 5 in gaza are gone. And you can see from the historical images that these were very nice, well-groomed campuses. All of the greenery is gone. I had heard it beforehand, but this process of self-discovery with google earth hit a little bit different

snypher 9/2/2025||
Genocide is not just about the people.

'Raphael Lemkin, who coined the term, defined genocide as "the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group" by means such as "the disintegration of [its] political and social institutions, of [its] culture, language, national feelings, religion, and [its] economic existence".'

BergAndCo 9/3/2025||
[dead]
jfengel 9/3/2025|||
Israel repeatedly accuses Hamas of using such sites as bases for rocket attacks. They claim that Hamas does this precisely to encourage posts like yours: blaming Israel for Hamas' violations of international law.

I cannot validate Israel's accusations, nor can I refute them. I just think it's important to mention them, because if they were true, it changes the interpretation of those facts considerably.

Unfortunately, confirmation of such things is practically impossible, in a self-fulfilling way. At least one side is willing to go to great lengths to deny their own violations. It's entirely possible that it's both.

BergAndCo 9/3/2025||
[dead]
shepherdjerred 9/2/2025||
I saw this yesterday which really changed my mind: https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/middleeast/1000000103701...
bjoli 9/2/2025|
Listening to interviews of the people from the west who have been to Gaza (doctors and nurses) I think it has been pretty clear what kind of violence is being perpetrated towards the civilian population. Things I found especially disturbing was Nick Maynard accusation of using teenagers as target practice, and Anthony Aguilar's description of the absolute horror of the GHF relief sites.

But these are just a few of many. There have been more stories of children shot in the head or chest than I can count, and when the stories of snipers shooting children started to fizzle out, it was instead drones that did the shooting.

Together with the absolutely abhorrent things said by Israeli ministers and parliament members I have had no doubt that this has been a genocide for quite some time.

The hardest thing to accept has been the complicit western media. On one side they have reported about killings, but then promptly reported the Israeli spokesperson's response to the accusations despite them being caught lying over and over again. Like the massacre of the ambulance drivers that first was not communicated with cogat. When it was shown to be communicated to cogat, they did not have their emergency lights and sirens on. When films surfaced of them with their lights and sirens on it was going to be "investigated". That led nowhere, despite the soldiers actively trying to hide their tracks by burying all the victims - some with ther frikken hands tied.

This pattern has repeated itself over and over and over, yet news outlets like the BBC or CNN seem to say to themselves "ah, but this time they are telling the truth".

My own government have been more preoccupied with hiding it's own cowardice than with standing up for any kind of principles. They believe in nothing and I have nothing but contempt for them.

abdusco 9/2/2025||
Everything Israel says is taken at face value and parroted by the western media, but anything Palestinians say is scrutinized and cast doubt and smeared as "Hamas lies".

The only way that neither side can object is from international journalists. Guess what, they're not allowed in, lest the truth comes out.

7402 9/2/2025|||
I don't know what you're reading, but on HN, almost nothing Israel says is taken at face value, everything Israel says is scrutinized and cast doubt upon. I don't see a lot of questioning of statements derived from Palestinians, Hamas, or Al Jazeera.
jjani 9/2/2025||
Almost no post on HN related to Israel remains unflagged.
7402 9/2/2025||
Well this one isn't.

People flag articles because they disagree with them, but also because they just think the discussion may descend into uninformative yelling. My point concerned the discussions that do appear, rather than which articles make it through unflagged, but even there it appears they don't support the narrative of "only good things about Israel appear in the media."

There's a relevant discussion in this recent post from a couple weeks ago:

Ask HN: Are we allowed to discuss Israel on HN? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44947788

"We want to give the topic of Israel and Gaza fair exposure, as it's obviously an important story and it would feel wrong to pretend it's not happening. At the same time, every time we have one of these stories on the front page, it turns in to a hellish flamewar, we have to spend all day moderating it..."

jjani 9/2/2025||
Correct, this one is a very rare exception. There's indeed multiple reasons that it happens. But it does happen to the huge majority of them.
jjani 9/2/2025||||
They are allowed in, after which they're summarily executed by the IDF.
idiomat9000 9/2/2025|||
[flagged]
Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 9/2/2025|||
This war doesn't really have anything to do with religion anyway. Besides: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasbara
breppp 9/2/2025||
Except one of the belligerents believes:

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day"

"Nothing in nationalism is more significant or deeper than in the case when an enemy should tread Moslem land. Resisting and quelling the enemy becomes the individual duty of every Moslem [sic], male or female"

"Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight."

Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 9/2/2025||
I mean, they all sound pretty indoctrinated to me. If I had been born in a war torn country I can imagine finding those fairy tales quite aluring. Religion here is the pretext neighbors use to justify their anger.
tguvot 9/3/2025||
for the past two years the Hamas leadership had been talking about implementing "the last promise" (alwaed al'akhir) – a divine promise regarding the end of days, when all human beings will accept Islam. Sinwar and his circle ascribed an extreme and literal meaning to the notion of "the promise, " a belief that pervaded all their messages: in speeches, sermons, lectures in schools and universities. The cardinal theme was the implementation of the last promise, which included the forced conversion of all heretics to Islam, or their killing.

https://judaic.arizona.edu/sites/judaic.arizona.edu/files/20...

Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 9/3/2025||
I have no issue with countries fighting Hamas. I have issues with countries sending bombs somwhere where the median age is less than 20 years old. In the USA half of the population wouldn't even have the right to drink but here they are deemed too radicalized already to deserve carpet bombings.

My take is that if a 100th of the war budget of Israel had been allocated to building schools and peace propaganda in palestine none of these decades of violence would have happened.

The only situation where bombs defeat a radicalized population is when they eradicate said population, and that sounds like a genocide to me. See Vietnam for a concrete example.

breppp 9/3/2025||
> My take is that if a 100th of the war budget of Israel had been allocated to building schools and peace propaganda in palestine none of these decades of violence would have happened

The UN has invested around a billion yearly in UNRWA, an agency whose half of budget (twice than what you propose) is supposed to educate Palestinian children for peace, mainly using funds contributed by the west.

UNRWA however has removed the holocaust from its human rights curriculum, has many Hamas members on its payroll, including some teachers who held hostages and regularly talks about Jihad and martyrdom in its curriculum.

So, yeah peace education? that works less when you are under a control of an islamist terror organization or ran by the local population that does not have fully bought to your peace idea yet

Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 9/3/2025||
Thank you I didn't know that. I'm inclined to think it was already too late by that time. I still believe what I said above.
tguvot 9/3/2025||
this is the atlantic article from 1961 about unrwa camps. journalist went to visit them in lebanon, gaza and then went to visit arabs that remained in israel.

there are many interesting things in this article, but one of the most interesting it's that back than in unrwa schools was taught that all land was stolen and that they will liberate it by force.

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/media/archives/1961/10/208-4/132...

lifestyleguru 9/1/2025||
Last 5 years and especially last 3 years have been historical milestone for the developed world, and not in a good way. It spirals into something indistinguishable.
silverliver 9/3/2025||
What was allowed to happen in Palestine has set a new standard for the value of human life and morals. It was not only set for the Palestinians but also for the other side and everyone else.

Perhaps this is no consolation to the victims, but the pendulum will continue to swing both ways as it always has. These monsters and their offspring will reap what they sowed. Humanity too will reap this reward.

thrance 9/2/2025||
Nothing of the sort, imperialism and colonialism were hallmarks of the developed world. I think it's a good sign, actually, that this time, a significant part of the population saw through all the bullshit and propaganda we've been bombarded with in the last few years.
tguvot 9/2/2025||
per a couple of articles [0][1]

- only 28% percent of members voted

- virtual discussion for resolution prior to voting was cancelled

- didn't allow dissenting opinions published on list serve

- The association has recently expanded its membership and there are little qualifications to become a member. The association had been mostly made up of scholars, but now includes figures like activists and artists,

- if somebody reads actual resolution, it reads like fine collection of tiktok videos.

[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o

[1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-september-02-2025/#li...

aaomidi 9/2/2025||
Very interesting that you’re mixing two sources: one partially reputable and one entirely unreliable for this news.

And then you don’t make a distinction of which claim comes from where. The first claim comes from BBC, all the rest come from the second source. And best part? actual source for this is just one member saying stuff.

EvgeniyZh 9/2/2025||
Well the whole discussion is under an article by the source entirely unreliable for this news.
thejazzman 9/2/2025|||
aljazeera is unreliable??
euLh7SM5HDFY 9/2/2025||
That "for this news" qualifier is important. I trust their reporting on most topics, but hating Israel is probably only thing that Muslim countries have in common and it will have an impact no matter how much they claim independence from Qatar government.

Still, I guess any source is better than Israel paid "There is no famine in Gaza" ads, that YouTube displays between investment scams.

peterashford 9/2/2025|||
Citation required
mikrotikker 9/2/2025|||
This seems to happen a lot from what I've seen. When I saw Al Jazeera I already knew it would be biased.
Mars008 9/2/2025||
Do you know any unbiased source? Any of these: BBC, NY Time, WSJ, CNN, MSN, The Guardian, NewsMax, MSDN...
porridgeraisin 9/2/2025||
There is no such thing. Everything is biased. In fact I don't know why so many people have an expectation for such things as "unbiased", "independent" anything to even exist. It is a lucky anomaly if you come across one.
pas 9/3/2025||
anyone wondering, here's the actual resolution (which is basically a list of links)

https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IAGS...

it doesn't seem like something that people need to vote on, there's no weighing of evidence, it's on the level of a beginner Wikipedia page

tguvot 9/3/2025||
You might be the only one who bothered to look at actual resolution
NomDePlum 9/2/2025||
Related article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45097384

Leaked ‘Gaza Riviera’ plan dismissed as ‘insane’ attempt to cover ethnic cleansing

jjani 9/2/2025|
Aaand it's flagged/removed.
xyzal 9/2/2025||
I can't understand just how is Israel able to deliver precision strikes in Iran basically landing explosives to key personnel bedrooms (which is impressive!), but w.r.t. Hamas -- allegedly a weaker adversary -- it just isn't possible! We have to end 60k people first.

Does anyone have some rational explanation?

omnimus 9/2/2025||
If you look at the NY Times video shared above - the strikes are very precise. First they hit viewpoint/staircase favorited by journalists. Then 10min later they hit exactly the same spot with two separate strikes in a row.

There aren't many other rational explanations than that this is intended? Targeting journalists and then their rescue parties… oof

justacomment1 9/2/2025|||
They have access through software companies who actually provide security. Almost all western companies depend on security solutions (ex: endpoint & SOC providers, that means every electronic device including IoTs has some tracking enabled) provided by Israel founded companies. And we all know Israel seems to be not following rules, even though these security companies have some restrictions on access to customers data, there is no one stopping them from accessing these data in the name of support. Many security companies depend on Israel based employees. And often these employees are drop outs from high rank military intelligence or some family member in a high rank military positions. So if a supply chain has US companies, they have access to the companies data. I am definitely guessing a lot. But the kind of intel they have makes me think they are illegally accessing these data somehow.

If this is true, think twice before using second hand devices. You might be mistaken for someone and unnecessarily targeted.

Note that you can’t basically avoid these companies. They codified using one of these companies in some US regulations. There are no alternatives between. Even though the companies themselves mention they are US based, most of critical technical stuff happens directly from Israel. There are basically no alternatives. They make rules, US follows.

emchammer 9/2/2025||
Could you provide a reference for the Israeli company in US regulations?
justacomment2 9/2/2025||
Compliance is driven by federal and state data protection laws (like HIPAA for healthcare or CCPA in California), industry standards (like NIST and CMMC). All companies are bound to follow these standards which is expected.

Like I mentioned these security companies identify themselves as US based, but all technical work is based in Israel. Like front office is US.

All I am saying is I am suspecting information leaks out of offices in Israel. Again this is suspicion. One of the theories on why Israel has all the intel it needs. Some information access illegally using some backdoor. Backdoor could be as simple as direct access through an existing employee who might be linked to Israel military intel.

salawat 9/2/2025||
Section, man. Citation. Or give a name to search.
justacomment2 9/2/2025||
I already mentioned the standards that companies are supposed to follow for various reasons. Exact reason on why companies are supposed to follow these standards is immaterial. The point I am making is that these standards are not wrong, but all operations are based out of Israel and only front office and token work is being done with in US. When you have access to these critical security systems out in a country which uses questionable means for end goals, don’t you question how it gains abnormal amount of leverage against the worlds only super power. For this reason, there is high probability that there is some level of misuse of the US data at these locations. Especially if the personal has links to Israel military in someway or other.

Starting point for your research into some US regulations for Defense contracts. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/10/15/2024-22...

apexalpha 9/2/2025|||
In Iran they mostly blew up stuff that's fixed in place, like the nuclear reactor.

Most stuff in Gaza that was fixed in place has been destroyed already.

dlubarov 9/2/2025|||
A few thoughts,

- We don't really know the civilian casualty ratio for Gaza, but in seems somewhere in the normal range for urban wars (e.g. based on some losses Hamas admitted early in the conflict). The Iran strikes also harmed civilians, e.g. from a collapsed building in Nobonyad Square. If Israel had to repeat things 10,000x, we might have seen many collapsed buildings and it might start to resemble Gaza.

- Intelligence gathering methods that work for a few high-profile targets might not scale to a war against tens of thousands of combatants.

- Israel had the element of surprise against Iran, so the relevant targets were mostly not in bunkers/tunnels. They never did against Hamas.

DeepSeaTortoise 9/2/2025|||
Compare it to the 2022 Ukraine war. For more than a year almost all the fighting happened in densely populated areas, with many such shorter phases before and since.

And Soviet-stock bombs just aren't as precise and unguided rocket artillery even more so.

Yet after more than 3 years the number of civilian deaths and injured COMBINED just barely surpassed 50k recently.

dlubarov 9/2/2025|||
Ukraine goes out of its way to evacuate civilians, who can flee to safer parts of their vast country, or to other countries which have collectively accepted something like 7 million Ukrainian refugees.

Gazans have none of that - they’re trapped in a tiny territory, no states are taking significant numbers of Gazan refugees, and Hamas isn’t doing anything for civilian safety.

Any differences in Israeli vs Russian military tactics are rather secondary to these fundamental differences in civilian exposure.

idiomat9000 9/2/2025|||
[flagged]
bartoszcki 9/2/2025||
13,883 civilians died in Ukraine as a result of Russian invasion between 24 Feb. 2022 and 31 July 2025 according to United Nations. It's really easy to Google it.
mopsi 9/2/2025|||
The very same UN stresses that these numbers severely undercount due to lack of access to occupied territories and mostly reflect deaths in free Ukraine. The figures from the areas where most of the fighting has taken place remain unknown. Realistic estimates go far beyond the death toll in Gaza; people illegally conscripted from the occupied territories into the Russian armed forces alone add several tens of thousands more deaths.
tguvot 9/2/2025|||
On 11 April, Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boychenko stated that over 10,000 civilians had died in the Russian siege of Mariupol.[323] On 12 April, city officials reported that up to 20,000 civilians had been killed.[323] (this is 1 month into siege) On the same day, the Mayor of the city reported that about 21,000 civilians had been killed.[324] An updated Ukrainian death toll the following month put the number of civilians killed at at least 22,000.[325]

On August 29, President of Mariupol Television, volunteer and civil activist Mykola Osychenko said to Dnipro TV that, according to the insider information, 87,000 deaths have been currently documented in morgues in Mariupol. Besides, 26,750 bodies are buried in mass graves, and many more are buried in the yards of the apartment blocks and private houses, or still under the rubble.[326]

In early November, Ukraine stated that at least 25,000 civilians had been killed in Mariupol.[46][47] In late December, based on the discovery of 10,300 new mass graves, the Associated Press estimated that the true death toll may be up to three times that figure.[327] The Uppsala Conflict Data Program estimates of the total death toll resulting from the siege range from 27,000 to 88,000 fatalities, most of them civilians.[49]

just to put things into perspective, this siege lasted less than 3 months

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol

DeepSeaTortoise 6 days ago||
If you had quoted but one more sentence by accident, you might have included the study that counted individual graves in and around Mariupol:

"According to a 2023 study by Human Rights Watch and two other organizations, there were at least 8,034 excess deaths in Mariupol between March 2022 and February 2023."

cmurf 9/2/2025|||
[flagged]
bartoszcki 9/2/2025|||
Sure it would be best to build the tunnels away from civilian infrastructure but there's barely any away-from-civilian-infrastructure places in the Gaza Strip.

What would be even better, IMHO, is if Israel just stopped murdering Gazans.

bjoli 9/2/2025||||
The tunnels are on a depth of 18-25 meters. Apart from the 2000lb bombs, there is nothing that will destroy a reinforced tunnel that deep. If even that. It will however destroy sewage and water infrastructure.

One of those bunker busters will also do immense damage to surrounding structures. Gaza is one of the more densely populated areas on earth. You don't use 2000lb bombs without causing a lot of death and damage outside of the thing you a re targeting.

Not only that, every time hospital attacks were justified bt "Hamas underground conplexes" the evidence has been lacklustre or even completely absent. They demolished the only specialist cancer hospital in Gaza claiming it was used as a command central for Hamas. But still no evidence has been provided. The only thing we DO know is that the IDF had used the hospital as a base before denolishibg it.

While I don't doubt that there are examples of Hamas using civilian infrastructure (and this v.civilians) as shields, the Israeli usage of the term is a poor excuse for indescriminate bombing of apartment buildings, schools and hospitals.

blks 9/2/2025|||
Interesting way of shifting blame of creating thousands of corpses from military and political leadership to “international community”.
tsoukase 9/2/2025||
Israel with the support of literally all of the West cannot cope with a bunch of poor muslims. I cannot understand it, outside of conspiracy. The same holds for any distant war between the USA and some medieval counties in the last 30 years. If I were in charge, I would obliterate the enemy with any means.
puregene 9/2/2025||
I saw paul graham tweeted "It's official. It's genocide." https://x.com/paulg/status/1962512489452618056
doka_smoka 9/2/2025||
The overton window is shifting thank Jesus. We are on the brink of awakening.
CommanderData 9/1/2025|
[flagged]
joshcsimmons 9/1/2025|
Crazy how vehemently people seek to suppress this information.
ignoramous 9/3/2025||
Ethno-religious extremists with better PR.
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