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Posted by josephcsible 9/2/2025

FreeDroidWarn(github.com)
408 points | 320 commentspage 2
camdroidw 9/2/2025|
What would be my options as an end user who does not want to root his device
preisschild 9/2/2025||
Google Pixel + GrapheneOS

If you want to know if your Banking App is compatible: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

sjogress 9/2/2025|||
Perhaps a Fairphone 6 with /e/OS (which is a de-googled Android)?

https://shop.fairphone.com/the-fairphone-gen-6-e-operating-s...

userbinator 9/2/2025|||
who does not want to root his device

Why not? Freedom isn't a given --- you need to fight for it.

psychoslave 9/2/2025|||
You can't expect people to go into fight mode for every single chunk of social interaction they engage into, and still be able to enjoy any moment of freedom.

A society which value freedom should of course give a lot of it to its citizen, and expect them to defend and improve it for everyone.

A society where freedom is never a given, is not going to foster much of it.

Kwpolska 9/2/2025|||
Rooting a device will usually cause banking apps to stop working.
userbinator 9/2/2025|||
There are still workarounds. The way to win is to keep fighting.
kikokikokiko 9/2/2025||
All banks in Brazil now use the Google Play Integrity api. I've been on rooted phones for almost 15 years, and I'll never not main a rooted phone. But for a couple years now, I have to keep a separate phone just to be able to use tha f*cking banks.
immibis 9/2/2025|||
Then go to your bank and say hey, fix this or close my account
debugnik 9/2/2025|||
And they'll gladly close it, them and every other bank. We lack alternatives so we lack leverage.
okanat 9/2/2025|||
In many European countries this means you cannot have a online-activated bank account. Offline banking is paid and often expensive.
add-sub-mul-div 9/2/2025|||
I assume my S20+ won't get this because it's stopped getting anything but security updates. Sometime next year I'll look for the latest phone that's too old to get the new behavior.
rickdeckard 9/2/2025||
I assume this will not be rolled out as an OS-upgrade but as a Play services update, so it will be enrolled by Google directly to nearly all devices on the market.
add-sub-mul-div 9/2/2025||
If so then that blows, but I'm still hopeful Samsung won't create an update for this. Unless this is something Google silently updates in the background even with automatic app updates turned off.
rickdeckard 9/2/2025||
Samsung is not in control of this. Play services is a quite broad framework that is fully in control of Google, and the foundation for many services and applications on the device (including Play Store itself).

If you would factory-reset your device right now, it would reset to the version of Play Services that came with the installed device firmware, but upon startup the services framework would likely fetch information that it is outdated and won't continue until you have upgraded it.

In this state you could probably use your device and sideload apps, but none of the Google Mobile Services (Play Store, Gmail, Maps, YouTube,...) and 3rd party apps which require Google APIs will work

captainepoch 9/2/2025|||
For now, there isn't an alternative. Maybe a Pixel phone and GrapheneOS with the sandboxed Play Store would be the only choice, but for now, nobody knows.
aydyn 9/2/2025||
Cry in a corner ig?
zx8080 9/2/2025||
Maybe use iphone? There will be not much advantages left on Android side after that shit gets go.
politelemon 9/2/2025|||
Even without side loading there are several advantages and freedoms that Android has unmatched.
littlecranky67 9/2/2025|||
such as? Curious, because on iOS you can freely install browser extensions (adblockers like uBlock origin lite) from the get go. Still boggles my mind that Chrome does not allow extensions.
cyberax 9/2/2025||
Alternative browser engines, JIT-compilation support (enables apps like Koreader), ability to completely disable animations, etc.
littlecranky67 9/2/2025|||
Alternate browser engines are now possible in the EU, there is just not much interest in porting to iOS. To me it sounds just bad UX that the first thing you need to do on Chrome to enable Adblock is to switch browser, vs. just installing an extension with the default browser that probably 90%+ of Android users use.
gkbrk 9/2/2025|||
With sideloading being disabled, it takes a single decision from a Google employee to completely get rid of all browser engines and apps that use JIT.
cyberax 9/2/2025||
It's not feasible, several large projects completely depend on the ffi interface that needs JIT.
import 9/2/2025|||
Like what? I am curious what’s left
Aardwolf 9/2/2025||
Choice of running multiple browsers with different engines
scotty79 9/2/2025|||
I might just move to whatever Chinese come up with. By 2027 their tech should be clearly superior in every way.
silon42 9/2/2025||
If there's a cheap Chinese phone that banks/google accept, that might be my second (non-rooted) phone.
ducktective 9/2/2025||
Didn't Google say that they're gonna provide an escape hatch for students and hobbyists? So, best case scenario, we just need to tap some label 5 times to enable side-loading again.
rollcat 9/2/2025||
We have different definitions of an "escape hatch". A user is not an IT specialist. Ordinary people need unobstructed access to lifeboats.

Apple allows developers to self-sign a handful of apps (exclusively from source!) with short-lived certs - it's a complete PITA to maintain a simple app for personal use, and you still need an account. Google is heading in the same direction.

msgodel 9/2/2025||
Also features that people assume are part of the OS, like push notifications, but are really a service run by Apple that your phone is locked to using cryptography don't work with self-signed apps.
charcircuit 9/2/2025||
You are able to get a limited number of app installs for your package for free.

https://developer.android.com/developer-verification/guides/...

rcxdude 9/2/2025|||
Which still requires ID verification.
surajrmal 9/2/2025||
How many people would that really stop? It wouldn't stop me from feeling comfortable with creating android apps that are capable of being side loaded.
Y_Y 9/2/2025|||
> You'll need > Your legal name and address. These need to be verified by uploading official identity documents.

I don't have a "legal name". Sounds like some sovcit bullshit. I go by several names, none of which is canonical. Maybe other countries formalize this idea, but the countries where I am a citizen/resident do not.

> A private email address and phone number for Google to contact you. These will need to be verified using a one-time password

I love that email OTP is good enough for this, but apparently not for anything else, where I'll need an approved verified secure attested super official app.

charcircuit 9/2/2025||
>I don't have a "legal name". Sounds like some sovcit bullshit.

Considering every country has passports and passports all have the person's legal name on them. And thst the passport standard only supports having one name with a primary and secondary identifier. You must be mistaken.

immibis 9/2/2025|||
Not everyone has a passport. And people with strange or no name may have passports with names that are not theirs.
charcircuit 9/2/2025||
But it does mean that the country has a way of picking a name to use on one.
BlueTemplar 9/2/2025|||
They might have several different passports from different countries.

It's also fairly common for instance for women to have multiple names from their marriage(s).

charcircuit 9/2/2025||
Use the same name as the identification you are submitting. It's not that complicated.
everyone 9/2/2025||
google seem to have the multi-pronged attack on android devs going on atm. They are seemingly trying to take down as many apps and dev accounts as possible.. Anyone know why?

1. doxx yourself of they kill your account

2. re-build every app with pointless newer api version literally every year or it gets taken down.

3. Push an update or a new app or they kill your account.

..

My guess is enshittification, some random exec is trying to save a few pennies in server and storage costs.

..

I'd also say that google makes so much money from ads and data-brokering that everything else they do is not vital for their survival and thus undergoes a sort of "genetic drift" where they just make random decisions.

bloqs 9/2/2025||
background political lobbying. its part of the effort from most of the west (not the US yet) to verify users on devices to 'protect kids'
tomrod 9/2/2025|||
Google cut off their own revenue legs with AI suggestions instead of ads.

Thats okay, they jumped the shark when the imperative for ads took over.

peddling-brink 9/2/2025|||
> 1. doxx yourself of they kill your account

Combat abuse. I don't think this is a solvable problem, so obviously this won't be a silver bullet. But maybe will it impose more cost on the abusers creating a nicer app store experience for everyone. Or maybe this only imposes cost on the honest ones? I don't know how much validation they do.

> 2. re-build every app with pointless newer api version literally every year or it gets taken down.

Fix vulns. This also gets rid of abandoned apps. It also probably provides an "opportunity" for the dev to agree to new T&C.

> 3. Push an update or a new app or they kill your account.

This one seems shakier to me, but it might feed into an effort to get rid of abandoned apps. But I disagree with this being healthy for the ecosystem, if that's actually the reason.

I'm not trying to defend google, but from working in FAANG, some of this is obvious. None of these things save a significant amount of server or storage costs. Some of it is clearly anti-abuse and efforts to defend themselves from the constant stream of crap that tries to make its way into the app store.

> everything else they do

Google isn't like some dude (sundar) making decisions. It's a bunch of millionaires and billionaires making decisions. There's some high level guidance, but the difference between different divisions is 100% based on who's running that particular show.

8n4vidtmkvmk 9/2/2025|||
What's wrong with "abandoned" apps? I still use an app called DiskUsage. Not sure you can still get it on the store or it comes with scary warnings now. Continues to work great. Never found a replacement. Don't want a replacement. This one works.

When an app works but keeps getting updated, that means the enshittification is starting. How else do you extract money out of a completed app?

fer 9/2/2025|||
I thought this applies to every app regardless the app store it comes from? Including side loading. The Play Store is already "sanitised".
pixxel 9/2/2025||
[dead]
Tade0 9/2/2025||
All this has me wondering: what's the future of chroot-based tools like proot-distro? No app store here, just PPAs. Can largely run whatever the hell I want, provided it's distributed for the OS I'm currently running.
charcircuit 9/2/2025|
The future I see is that it gets rearchitected such that each app will correspond to an android app that way it follows the Android model properly. The current model of shoving everything into the same app is going to continually run into problems and is not the right way to do it long term. So essentially there will be a tool to easily convert a freedesktop Linux application to an android one.

In regards to this new package name registration whoever is running the repo of such packages would register a new package name for each app.

hereme888 9/2/2025||
Rad. That's the way to do it.

"Avoid Google. Don't buy Google products, especially their phones."

Money is the corporate language, especially for Big Tech, which is always several steps ahead of legislation.

jeroenhd 9/2/2025||
Will corporate care? Google alternatives are either iOS (which has had the same restriction for a decade now so you're not gaining anything by switching) or a super niche OS that isn't going to be profitable in the mass market.
preisschild 9/2/2025||
> "Avoid Google. Don't buy Google products, especially their phones."

Ironically their phones are the best way to avoid this shit, because they are one of the few that properly support securely installing de-googled Android Versions.

hereme888 9/2/2025||
Agreed, ironic. I recently switched my Pixel to Graphene
preisschild 9/3/2025||
I was already de-googled before I switched to Pixels, but used LineageOS on chinese devices with a hellish bootloader-unlock experience and wanted better security.

I hope the OEM GrapheneOS is in contact with makes a better alternative.

zx8080 9/2/2025||
> Add the JitPack repository to your root build.gradle

How much MB (kb?) does this dependency add to apk?

nulld3v 9/2/2025|
Given that it's just a couple lines of code and has no other dependencies other than AppCompat (which nearly all apps already use), the increase in size would be negligible (<4KB).

EDIT: The AAR file is 26KB: https://jitpack.io/com/github/woheller69/FreeDroidWarn/V1.3/... But most of it looks to be from R.txt and I think that file gets deduped/compressed during app packaging?

TheDong 9/2/2025|
"Copyright GPL"

I don't think this meets the bar for copyrightable code. Copyright protects creative expression. Displaying a single dialogue does not take creative expression, and pretty much any developer given the task would produce code identical to this.

croemer 9/2/2025||
Don't complain about the license. The license removes any doubt. You can happily use it without having to worry. If there was no license you'd have uncertainty.

Also you're misquoting. The license is GPL-3, not AGPL.

TheDong 9/2/2025||
I'm not complaining about the license, I'm complaining about the library size.

Something that is too small to be considered creative should be a documented example you copy and adopt into your app, not a dependency.

The only exceptions to this are things like "A dependency that contains all unicode planes and categorizes characters", which isn't creative, but is useful and too large to copy-paste, and also updates over time.

Or the timezone database file, another case of something that should be "public domain" knowledge (uncopyrightable), but makes sense as a dependency.

This is not that sort of thing.

croemer 9/2/2025||
You can't copy paste all the localizations for example. Go make a copy-pasteable version if it's so easy.
chrismorgan 9/2/2025|||
Have you looked at the code? I sure wouldn’t produce exactly that. Even for identical functionality, its FreeDroidWarn.java methods are 30 lines, I’d write it in 13 lines. I also wouldn’t write exactly the same strings (some stylistic changes, some being specific rather than generic as is somewhat necessary for a library), and definitely couldn’t produce 17 other translations.

This easily meets thresholds for creative work. The basic concept is nigh-trivial, but the concrete implementation is still creative.

ronsor 9/2/2025|||
Yes, this code is almost as trivial as a hello world.
woheller69 9/2/2025||
Yeah, I just wanted to have something I can add with a line of code to my 20+ apps on F-Droid including all translations. It is Apache now
userbinator 9/2/2025|||
and pretty much any developer given the task would produce code identical to this.

That I doubt; it seems more like it's deliberately large and complex enough to be copyrightable, because otherwise it wouldn't be.

woheller69 9/2/2025||
changed to Apache V2.0 license