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Posted by kevinyew 9/4/2025

Atlassian is acquiring The Browser Company(www.cnbc.com)
https://browsercompany.substack.com/p/your-tuesday-in-2030

https://www.atlassian.com/blog/announcements/atlassian-acqui...

https://www.theverge.com/web/770947/browser-company-arc-dia-...

522 points | 504 comments
crowcroft 9/4/2025|
The strategic insight behind Arc was perfect – your browser IS the Operating System, and so we should build a browser that can function as that platform.

Arc had pretty good market validation with early adopters, they say that growth was flattened out but IMO that's normal for most products, and it's up to the company to find out WHY growth flattened and then solve that problem. Not kill the product and chase some entirely new idea about AI.

I wouldn't be surprised if the investors were fed up with the business and wanted out, pretty good exit all things considered.

bhouston 9/4/2025||
> The strategic insight behind Arc was perfect – your browser IS the Operating System, and so we should build a browser that can function as that platform.

Marc Andreessen said famously (or at least is paragraphed as saying) in 1994 that the "Browser is the Operating System" and people have been doing riffs on that since then.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2012/04/22/always...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/09/software-...

This was also the idea behind Chromebooks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChromeOS

scrlk 9/4/2025|||
> Marc Andreessen said famously (or at least is paragraphed as saying) in 1994 that the "Browser is the Operating System" and people have been doing riffs on that since then.

Isn't that downstream of Sun Microsystems’ old slogan: The Network is the Computer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Network_is_the_Computer

tsoukase 9/5/2025|||
Sometime I said to myself. If I hacked someone's PC, his hard drive will become my NAS.
mananaysiempre 9/4/2025|||
AFAICT, Sun’s underlying vision was more on the side of pervasive RPC and/or downloadable code, i.e. closer to DCOM or NeWS than HTTP.

(We have in fact ultimately ended up layering downloadable code on top of HTTP. I don’t think I like the results, yet some of the things I don’t like seem inherent to downloadable code in general.)

zer00eyz 9/4/2025||
It was more than this. The Sun Ray thin clients were so frigging impressive.

The problem wasn't the tech, the problem was it was SUN. It ran on Sun Hardware, with Sun Software and all at Sun Prices. Metaframe was just so much cheaper (it was also hot garbage but thats another story).

positron26 9/5/2025||
Given that, in the back of every customer's mind, across all segments, they cannot allow one vendor to have or exert too much control, it is a wonder why any company would seek to own a platform to such an extent. The better and more integrated you get, the more of a risk you become.

And of course I'm speaking on the context of what I'm building, not the world we're in. There are plenty of platforms that are more important than what they platform. I believe it was Bill Gates that said the value of all the things on the platform must exceed the platform itself. We have some inversions at present that are ripe to undergo Rayleigh–Taylor instability.

tormeh 9/5/2025||
Really? Most businesses leave their eternal soul and their firstborn in the care of Microsoft, with no backup plan. I just don't buy this.
positron26 9/5/2025||
Microsoft is not just Microsoft. It's the cottage industry around products like Excel. It's all the other PC applications. It's WHQL getting hardware vendors into the fold. Compare all that to Apple. Apple is big, but not compared to the greater continent of Microsoft. People are more concerned about Apple's walled gardens than Microsoft's. It's no coincidence that Apple has taken more heavy handed actions to rule their platform more. That is why their platform is smaller overall and why people don't trust them.
hippo22 9/5/2025||||
Sometimes there isn't a reason why a product fails to find broad product adoption. If you take VC money, you need a mega hit. Sometimes, all you find is a niche.
crowcroft 9/4/2025||||
Which is why tactics are so important. I would say no one has actually got the experience right yet, 'browser is the OS' has been true for a long time, and no one has delivered it yet.

Similar to ambient computing and augmented reality.

mattlutze 9/4/2025|||
One might suggest Cromebooks have done so well because Google got it more or less right.
jemmyw 9/4/2025|||
I think Chromebooks have done so well because they're cheap and are purchased for locked down environments (education and people who really don't want complexity). Even then, I think they kind of demonstrate that the browser is NOT the OS because users and Google still felt the need to break out of the browser box, with both Android apps and Linux application support.
Imustaskforhelp 9/4/2025|||
I think that they had the fact that in chromebook, they could run whole linux containers in the browser , right?
tomjakubowski 9/4/2025|||
They say the browser is the OS, and yet eww is only one small part of Emacs.
ironmagma 9/4/2025||
Isn't that because eww refuses to implement JavaScript? Which isn't very e/acc of them?
wslh 9/5/2025|||
In 1994 the browser was not an operating system, was an hyperlink media app. JavaScript was born in 1995 and for years was “only” used for modifying the colors of HTML buttons on a mouse-over.
al_borland 9/4/2025|||
This wasn't a new insight by Arc. ChromeOS exists. Palm's WebOS was a thing. Even Apple pitched rich web apps as the avenue for 3rd party developers to make things for the original iPhone, they were just a bit too early. There is even Electron, for web apps to run as desktop apps on all major operating systems. Most browsers can also turn any website into a self-contained web app that lives along side other local apps.

I don't think Arc ever realized their vision. They gave some cryptic ideas of their vision for the future of the web, but I don't feel like they fundamentally changed anything. I was expecting Arc to eventually get to a place where I could login to Arc on any computer and have my home session, always up to date anywhere I was. Of course, this idea would have been a lot better in the 90s or 00s when computer labs were more common and everyone didn't have a computer in their pocket. The value of a cloud OS isn't as appealing as it once was.

In terms of growth flattening out; they threw in the towel too early. It was only after they stopped adding new features and decided to give up on Arc that it seemed to really start to get traction. I was seeing blog posts and YouTube videos left and right about Arc, all while knowing that it was effectively dead, but the memo never made it to the people who just found it and were sharing it like crazy. A new browser from a new company, that piggybacks on the browser that already has 70+% marketshare isn't going to take over the world in a few years. It was a long play and they were too impatient, and had already given up by the time they started to get some real traction outside of the early adopter space.

I remember when Firefox really hit the mainstream. Friends would see friends using IE, and push them out of the way to install Firefox. It felt very grass roots, but it worked... it just took time.

fastball 9/5/2025|||
Apple wasn't early, they realized that they don't own the web, and therefore that web apps are much worse for them as a business than owning an exclusive App Store.
utyop22 9/5/2025||
I dont think it was even that.

The developing for the iphone and app store creates lock-in. I believe the rich web page stuff was just to show the potential of what is possible before influencing developers to build for the app store.

chillfox 9/5/2025|||
Doesn't help that it didn't run on Linux (where a lot of people are willing to check out new tech), I kept checking in on it a few times a year, but it was never available. I have gotten people to use Firefox and Chrome in the past, but I did not push Arc to anyone as I could not use it myself.
mattlutze 9/4/2025|||
I'm a little surprised how many Chromium browser builders we have in the market, and how each continues to convince a group of investors that _they_ are going to be the ones to finally get it right, while still building on Chrome's skeleton.

But, there's a bunch on WebKit and Gecko as well.

crowcroft 9/4/2025||
On the other hand, it's kind of crazy no one can make an OS except Windows, Apple and Google? Trillion dollar market and no one can compete.
alemanek 9/4/2025|||
Browsers display content that follows a very specific set of standards. There are also suites of tests to verify your compliance with those standards. So, every browser that is standards compliant should work for the vast majority of websites in existence. Still a big lift but doable for talented team.

Now an OS without application compatibility is kind of DoA unless there is a very compelling reason to switch. Add in hardware compatibility and it gets even worse.

Much bigger hill to climb then incorporating an existing browser engine into a custom spin of a browser. Even a browser engine from scratch would be smaller than a new bare metal OS.

xboxnolifes 9/5/2025||||
If you mean a paid, consumer OS, you've got to keep in mind that they're essentially tied to a hardware product. The vast majority of your target market is not installing an alternative OS manually. You would need to either sell hardware with your OS or get hardware companies to package your OS over the existing options.

With how mature the personal computer market is, this is a very big hurdle.

johncolanduoni 9/5/2025||||
There’s a huge market for OSes that can consistently run Windows software. There’s no market for a brand new general purpose OS that can’t run anything until software developers port to it. Similarly, nobody is keen to pay anyone for an OS that can run Android or Linux software when they can get that for free.
wpm 9/5/2025||
It's partly that (after all so long as your new OS has a decent browser most people won't care), but also hardware support. Every single driver has some specific hardware's ridiculous and strange quirks and "yeah we comply with that standard except for all the times we don't", and re-writing every Windows, Linux, or *BSD driver for $NEW_OS just doesn't pencil out.
dehrmann 9/5/2025||||
A nearby comment repeated the quote "the browser is the OS."

The OS game is over. Desktop computing is becoming a professionals-only thing. We can talk about pros and cons of Windows, MacOS, and Linux, but it's a shrinking market without room for a fourth player.

coliveira 9/4/2025||||
OS is the perfect software to create lock in for consumers. Once a company is successful there, it is very difficult for others to compete.
greymalik 9/4/2025||||
RIP BeOS
hnlmorg 9/4/2025||||
…and Linux, Android, WebOS, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonflyBSD, GNU Hurd, Minix, QNX, Inferno, L4, FreeDOS, OpenSolaris forks like Illumos, OpenIndina and SmartOS, the various embedded real time OSs, the various Sony PlayStation and Nintendo Switch system softwares, various different bootloaders and UEFI interfaces, networking firmware like Draytek firmware, Cisco IOS, etc.

And that’s not even covering the numerous hobby OSs out there like Haiku, SerenityOS, ReactOS, TempleOS, SkyOS.

Then you have experimental OSs like Singularity too. There’s numerous examples of them alone but I think you get my point. :)

conceptme 9/4/2025||||
Linux?
bsder 9/5/2025||||
Building an OS is easy and straightforward.

Now let's make that OS talk to a graphics card--whoops, no Nvidia for you, peon!

An OS isn't a problem. Hardware support on an OS--that's a huge problem.

democracy 9/5/2025||
And then make people want to write for (and make money off)
lmz 9/5/2025||
(The Windows Phone problem)
butterfi 9/4/2025|||
Linux has entered the chat...
jabwd 9/4/2025||
Even though I run it full time now personally; I still think Linux has massive problems something like Windows or macOS don't have: app development. You can't target a thing, you have to target all the things and bloat your app like crazy so you might as well just ship a chromium based app because its practically the same thing anyway (shipping an entire userland because its not stable anyway)
amlib 9/4/2025|||
If there were instead 10 viable and competitive desktop operating system with no clear leader, and macos and windows were there just among the others.. wouldn't you try to target as many as you can? Maybe we can think of linux itself as a microcosm of OSes we never got to have, and you have to target as many variants as you can in order for no dominant force to emerge. It ain't pretty but its what we have..
johncolanduoni 9/5/2025||
The part of the "microcosm" that prevents you from being able to easily compile a binary and have it run on a wide variety of distros doesn't have any upside I can see. The fact that you have to jump through hoops to target particular glibc symbol versions and that a stable OpenSSL ABI gets rug-pulled in new distro versions every few years aren't key to any benefits of distro/OS diversity. What would suffer if gcc/clang had a `--min-glibc-version=...` flag and OpenSSL settled on a long-term stable ABI subset for establishing TLS connections?

The way this all gets worked around is that people come up with stuff like Docker or Flatpak that ship their own copies of as many dependencies as possible. The disadvantage is that now I can't just patch an OpenSSL vulnerability by updating the system's copy of OpenSSL, the way Windows can for all software built on SChannel.

sempron64 9/5/2025||||
This is just not true. You can still write GTK2 or SDL apps, you just need to package your app for the target distro or open source it because it's an open-source-first ecosystem.

If you're looking for binary stability and to ship your app as a file, ELF is extremely stable. If your app accesses files, accesses the network through sockets, and use stable libraries like SDL or GTK it will work fine as a regular binary and be easy to ship. People just don't want to write their apps in C, when the operating system is designed for that.

Many native apps like Blender, Firefox, etc ship portable Linux x64 and arm64 binaries as tar gz files. This works fine. You can also use flatpak if you want automatic cross platform updates but yes, the format is unfortunately bloated.

It's not that easy to ship a JavaScript app on other OSes either and electron apps abound there too.

johncolanduoni 9/5/2025||
What does ELF being stable or people not writing apps in C have to do with Linux binary compatibility? No matter what language you use, it’s either dynamically linking to the distro’s libc or using Linux system calls directly.

Also, I recommend taking a gander at what the Linux build process/linking looks like for large apps that “just work” out of the box like Firefox or Chromium. There’s games they have to play just to get consistent glibc symbol versions, and basically anything graphics/GUI related has to do a bunch of `dlopen`s at runtime.

Flatpak and similar take a cop-out by bundling their own copies of glibc and other libraries, and then doing a bunch of hacks to get the system’s userspace graphics libraries to work inside the container.

kiney 9/5/2025|||
thats been a solved problem for years with flatpak
blehn 9/4/2025|||
Isn't that basically the same premise as Chrome, which already dominates the market? Google even made something called ChromeOS. Arc wasn't really more than a distracting skin on Chromium with a few innovative bits of UI...
bageljlin17 9/5/2025||
Exactly, they basically have better designer. For the real tech feature, I really don't think they ever brings any new invention to the product. Data sync, AI, etc. All other competitors have these features. They even need to count on chromium update.
knr2345 9/5/2025||
Did they drop data sync? Could have sworn all of my spaces, tabs, folders, favorites and etc synced anytime I logged back in on my other machine (with access to spaces on iOS well)

It’s been a while since I used it regularly though.

barrell 9/5/2025|||
IIRC growth wasn’t flattening, it was growing pretty fast, basically hockey stick. It just wasn’t hockey stick enough to get to a billion users quickly.

At least, that was their justification publicly, maybe the real numbers were less optimistic

cryptozeus 9/4/2025|||
100% on point, classic case of drinking ai cool aid and killing what users wanted
crowcroft 9/4/2025||
The thing is they make the correct diagnoses of Arc's issues [1], but then instead of addressing them and doing the hard work of building a great product, they took the easy way out and started another greenfield project. How often has that ever been a good decision?

1 - https://browsercompany.substack.com/p/letter-to-arc-members-...

MangoToupe 9/4/2025||
> How often has that ever been a good decision?

It got them acquired, so certainly it worked for them this time.

> doing the hard work of building a great product

How often has that ever been a good decision?

crowcroft 9/4/2025|||
You're assuming that Dia is what Atlassian wanted in this acquisition, and nothing else. We don't know what things would look like if they had continued developing Arc.

Almost every successful company has got there by grinding away on hard problems. No one launches a product and gets endless growth for free. Not to say that Arc would have definitely succeeded, but to date it's been a lot more successful than Dia.

enos_feedler 9/5/2025|||
They wanted Arc. The founders and others at Atlassian loved Arc. I am sure Dia is allowed to continue until it doesn’t work. Which it wont.
MangoToupe 9/4/2025|||
> You're assuming that Dia is what Atlassian wanted in this acquisition

I thought it was an acquihire.

poly2it 9/4/2025|||
> How often has that ever been a good decision?

The migration to OSX or all Windows upgrades certainly payed off for those companies.

MangoToupe 9/4/2025||
I don't think this is a good comparison. There are many startups that have succeeded developing good products, but very few that could match the success of Apple.
creatonez 9/4/2025|||
> The strategic insight behind Arc was perfect – your browser IS the Operating System, and so we should build a browser that can function as that platform.

I'm sorry, but this is the exact same insight that MSN Explorer had. And everyone in retrospect sees that as an absolute spamfest. Ironically, in a very similar way as AI features are seen today.

foobarchu 9/4/2025|||
Similarly, isn't this the insight that led to both ChromeOS and FirefoxOS?
wpm 9/5/2025||
How many actual regular every day people are using either? ChromeOS's big market is "tired and underfunded K-12 IT/Library/HVAC admin who just doesn't give a fuck give the kids a chromebook so I can go do something else", it's not exactly making waves among the general populace.
foobarchu 9/5/2025||
In my experience, very few. FirefoxOS failed hard, and anyone who uses ChromeOS quickly becomes acquainted with the limitations of the approach.

I mainly brought them up in a "we've tried this before" sense.

dehrmann 9/5/2025|||
> I'm sorry, but this is the exact same insight that MSN Explorer had

The internet wasn't fast enough. There are a number of dot-com era ideas that were before their time for various reasons. There's also Wordle. That game could have been made (and I think variants were) for at least a 20-year window, but it caught on late in the pandemic when our streaming queues were exhausted.

rvz 9/4/2025|||
Spent more money on marketing + steve jobs cosplaying than building a browser that is better than chrome but had zero revenue for years to show for it.

They betted on the possibility that OpenAI or Perplexity would buy them. With the Google monopoly suit not requiring them to sell Chrome after all, there was no reason to raise any more money as they continued to lose money.

That looks like an exit on terrible terms, like Humane and HP.

crowcroft 9/4/2025||
All things considered the cash looks pretty good – maybe not the deal they wanted, but doesn't look bad all things considered.
hahn-kev 9/4/2025||
I think that we should be fine with growth flattening out.
Pfhortune 9/4/2025||
It has been so tragic to see the unforced downfall of this company. Arc is such an amazing browser that really did some new and interesting things. They clearly have some phenomenal talent on the team, having managed to get their swift-centric development working on _Windows_. That's a huge and difficult undertaking!

And they threw it away to work on (probably) the CEO's new fixation and threw Arc away like an old toy. And now they're selling to Atlassian and I would bet money, will just evaporate. Nothing they ever built will mean anything to Atlassian in the long term. Nobody wants to use an Atlassian browser.

jonas21 9/5/2025||
If going from a product with miniscule market share and no revenue to a $610M exit is a tragic unforced downfall, I really need to start failing more.
aiiizzz 9/5/2025||
Failing upwards in a nutshell
neutronicus 9/4/2025|||
> Nobody wants to use an Atlassian browser.

False.

On my work machine, I would grasp at any straw that promised to make JIRA less annoying.

Pfhortune 9/4/2025|||
Based on my usage of Jira over the years, I believe all the annoying parts of Jira come from _within_ the walls of Atlassian HQ...
e40 9/5/2025||
This. They consistently ignore user feedback on problems with their ui. It’s really a mess and slow as hell.
milkshakes 9/4/2025||||
Or they could take that money and actually improve the UX instead of needing an AI to navigate it?
cyberpunk 9/4/2025||
They used to have an iPad app that made it actually tolerable. Then killed it.

RIP ipad app. You are missed.

stephenhandley 9/5/2025||||
Hammer meet everything is a nail
tombert 9/5/2025||||
I hate Jira like all good people, though in fairness I haven't really found a replacement for it that I actually liked.

The closest I've used was Pivotal Tracker, which I believe is dead now, but I still remember finding stuff annoying about it (though drawing a blank on those facts right now). I wonder if dedicated ticket management stuff at scale is just inherently going to be annoying.

I use Obsidian with the Tasks plugin as a Jira-lite, and for whatever reason it doesn't bother me. I think it's because I can tune it however I want without a bunch of menus and write my own arbitrary queries, but I also think part of the appeal is that the tasks can be part of my notes, instead of a separate application (which is why I couldn't stick with OmniFocus).

usr1106 9/5/2025|||
We had Gitlab issues for 7 years at work. It was a clear and reponsive UI, simple but powerful markdown editing. Probably only 20% of the functionality what you can theoretically do with Jira, but just more pleasant to use and we got everything done. Over the years Gitlab kept adding more features and response times slightly decreased, but still nothing compared to Jira. After changing jobs I have to use Jira and hate it every day.
rglynn 9/5/2025|||
Out of interest, what issues did you have with Linear?
tombert 9/5/2025||
I don’t think I’ve used Linear, I hadn’t heard of it until just now.
makeitdouble 9/4/2025|||
Did any Atlassian product ever make JIRA less annoying ?

My impression was JiRA is the planet and everything else are satellites turning around. They come and go but never touch JIRA.

blackqueeriroh 9/5/2025||
yeah, lots of them. Every day. All the time. But you’d have to learn to understand that most of the problem you have with Jira has nothing to do with the tool and everything to do with how it’s been implemented.
makeitdouble 9/5/2025||
I beg to differ. Jira can be used in a sensible way, but that absolutely not how the tool is pitched nor how it guides user and companies. I'd compare it to giving users a 30 tools swiss army knife when all they should be using is the + driver and the scissors.

The issue being that teams that have that maturity don't need to kitchen sink in the first place and will be combining their own selected tools. That's how so many teams can get by with Notion and Gitlab only.

I spent more than a decade in JIRA and the Atlassian suite and can't think of any synergy that I miss TBH. Confluence in particular was fine for the time but does it stand the current competition ?

faizmokh 9/5/2025|||
> Nobody wants to use Atlassian browser.

I don't want to use Jira either but yet I can't run away from it

taminka 9/4/2025||
> having managed to get their swift-centric development working on _Windows_. That's a huge and difficult undertaking!

im not a swift expert, but building your project for one of the officially supported targets shouldn't be considered a "phenomenal" achievent? lol

jshier 9/4/2025|||
Considering TBC hired the one guy doing anything with Swift on Windows and paid for much of the work needed to make Windows an officially supported platform, it was still an achievement. I'm not even sure I'd call Windows officially supported since most of the support comes from TBC and not Apple or official Swift channels.
basisword 9/4/2025||||
The achievement wasn't building Swift code on Windows, it was using Swift to build a native Windows application utilising Windows API's.

https://www.swift.org/blog/swift-everywhere-windows-interop/

askonomm 9/4/2025||||
I recall something about them trying to get SwiftUI working on Windows, which would've been a pretty big thing indeed. No idea if they ever did or how exactly they built the Windows UI in the end.
Pfhortune 9/4/2025|||
Ah, fair enough. Showing my ignorance on that one. I know little about their tech stack and was under the impression they had some secret sauce.
basisword 9/4/2025|||
You're not ignorant, the other person was.
taminka 9/4/2025|||
i mean they did have some really cool designs, but technically they just had relatively advanced chrome fork...
drewbeck 9/4/2025||
I'm a huge fan of Arc and generally not a fan of TBCNY due to their abandonment of the browser for their AI hype machine, Dia. What's odd about this acquisition is that the move to Dia was (publicly) presented as a move toward the consumer; that consumers weren't ready for a radical reinvention of the browser interface so it made sense to revert to something more standard if you wanted to do something new with the browser.

I always saw Dia as fundamentally a move toward AI investor bux, but I did find the "Arc was too novel for large uptake" a reasonable perspective.

Atlassian, tho, has nothing for the regular every-day consumer, they make SaaS for business. So what's the deal?

My dream for Arc, from the beginning, was that it could act as a middle-man between all the various SaaS platforms we use daily at work. Imagine: your Shortcut tickets link automatically to Slack and you can one-click open the relevant Slack channel in a side-by-side view.

We do so much switching between contexts and imo the browser could be a great surface for improving our workflows.

joeblubaugh 9/5/2025||
> Atlassian, tho, has nothing for the regular every-day consumer, they make SaaS for business. So what's the deal?

sometimes you just find a big enterprise sucker who's desperate to stay relevant.

NaomiLehman 9/4/2025|||
Opera and Vivaldi have some impressive features up their sleeves. Similar philosophies to Arc Browser. Worth giving them a try!
blackqueeriroh 9/5/2025||
> Atlassian, tho, has nothing for the regular every-day consumer, they make SaaS for business. So what's the deal?

Do you know why Windows computers ended up dominating the home PC market?

Because everyone was using them at work, and they wanted the same experience they were familiar with.

Hundreds of millions of regular old people use Atlassian’s products every day at work.

If they get familiar with a browser that helps them get their work done faster, they’ll demand it at home, too.

nerdjon 9/4/2025||
What is with this need for a single application to do so many different tasks instead of just being focused on doing its job and doing it well (browsing the web in this case).

I just don't understand how they can with a straight face say "Today’s browsers weren’t built for work." when their entire business relies on browsers ability to do exactly that and have basically been fine (heavy javascript usage in Jira aside which this is not going to magically fix).

Looking at any of this I just don't see what this is actually supposed to solve.

cosmic_cheese 9/4/2025||
I’d like to ask the same thing. The main things I want from my browser are for it to be a good browser. Fast and secure with excellent tab and bookmark management capabilities. Anything else except maybe ad blocking is extraneous.

I understand that a lot of people live in their browsers, but for web apps I’d rather split them out into “installed” PWAs and have them benefit from system app/window management facilities than have them clog up my browser’s tabs.

forbiddenvoid 9/4/2025|||
I want a browser in my apps, not apps in my browser. The whole thing has just gone completely backwards in the last 20 years.

Browsers make terrible operating systems. People live in their browsers because they have to, not because they want to.

sagarm 9/4/2025||
I want to. I like that I can open multiple windows, tab them, share and save URLs, all with no stupid app-specific updater widget, a pretty good sandbox, and explicit permissions for breaking out of that sandbox in limited ways (e.g. notifications). All that works seamlessly and consistently on Windows, MacOS, and Linux. Often the same URLs also work well on mobile (Android) without installing more stupid apps. Extensions allow you to modify the apps, while staying in the sandbox.

Native app updaters and tray icons and startup services are incredibly obnoxious.

cosmic_cheese 9/4/2025||
Sounds like more than half the problem is the lack of standardization in desktop operating systems. There’s no reason why all Mac apps can’t take advantage of the system standard tabbing like AppKit Mac apps do, but most don’t, so in most apps you don’t get apps unless the dev implements them.

Same deal with updaters. If macOS and Windows had a standardized way to update apps Linux distros do that wouldn’t be nearly as annoying.

Startup services and to some degree tray icons fall under enshittification. Some apps have a legitimate need for these (like Alfred or Raycast or an audio mixer applet) but most are blatant mindspace/metrics booster grabs.

For me the upsides of web apps are counteracted by omnipresent annoying browser chrome, resource consumption, and the general flakiness stemming from nobody being able to agree on how to develop web app UIs (even just within the React sphere, let alone beyond it). The number of manhours set on fire and level of potential for refinement left on the table by the innumerable redundant bespoke widget reimplementations is unreal.

lmm 9/5/2025||
> Sounds like more than half the problem is the lack of standardization in desktop operating systems. There’s no reason why all Mac apps can’t take advantage of the system standard tabbing like AppKit Mac apps do, but most don’t, so in most apps you don’t get apps unless the dev implements them.

Yep. "Every app ships most of Chrome" is a profoundly stupid way to get a sensible cross-platform application runtime to develop on, but it's the only one that works, and at that point you might as well make the app run in actual Chrome instead.

> general flakiness stemming from nobody being able to agree on how to develop web app UIs (even just within the React sphere, let alone beyond it). The number of manhours set on fire and level of potential for refinement left on the table by the innumerable redundant bespoke widget reimplementations is unreal.

Disagree. That's creative destruction at work, it's messy but it's the only way to get better. Like it or not (and I don't like it), the best UIs around these days are built on React or similar webtech.

cosmic_cheese 9/5/2025||
> Disagree. That's creative destruction at work, it's messy but it's the only way to get better. Like it or not (and I don't like it), the best UIs around these days are built on React or similar webtech.

It may be a matter of perspective, but from where I’m standing web UIs have barely improved in the past 5-7 years. In many products they’ve gotten considerably worse. At the very least, there’s been an awful lot of tail chasing for the amount of improvement yielded.

neutronicus 9/4/2025||||
Well, Atlassian may be acqu-hiring the team specifically to make a JIRA PWA
presentation 9/5/2025|||
Are you paying for your browser?

There’s your answer.

threetonesun 9/4/2025||
Zawinski's Law in action.

I suppose the good thing with AI is we're coming close to being able to roll our own versions of whatever we want when the software we were using ascends to the enterprise plane.

ozgrakkurt 9/4/2025||
I would like to see you and all people think that they can roll own software with AI come together with AI as well and write chromium one day
threetonesun 9/4/2025||
I don't think I was suggesting you build your own Chromium so much as do what all these other browser projects do and fork it. The "software A got too bloated so we released software B" cycle is eternal but I'm optimistic it's moving even closer to the actual user than it has been in a while.
bargainbin 9/4/2025||
Anecdotally the company I work for is scuppered by bureaucracy when it comes to getting tools to work with, yet they want us to work at unhindered startup.

We’ve found it’s actually quicker to just recreate the app (Postman, Obsidian, Claude desktop) than it is to go through the rigmarole of getting the download/license approved.

drzaiusx11 9/4/2025||
And now you have to maintain all those tool clones! Seems like a losing battle and waste of resources to me. This is just not-invented-here syndrome wearing a different sweater
ghm2199 9/4/2025||
I've switched to Zen browser recently (I like it's spaces and folder structure to organize work on a daily basis, same as Arc). fFox nightly is not there yet but it's getting close with tabs on the left..
dutchCourage 9/4/2025||
I've also made the move to Zen. I think Arc users will feel right at home there. It hasn't quite reached he same level of polish just yet but being in active development is a big plus.

On top of that, Zen can be personalized with CSS. As someone who spends a lot of time in the browser, it's been awesome to be able to tailor it to my needs. https://docs.zen-browser.app/guides/live-editing

cosmic_cheese 9/4/2025|||
I’m hopeful for Zen, not just as a successor for Arc but as a Gecko-based browser that sweats the small details. I appreciate that Firefox exists but it’s got a number of rough edges that’ve seemingly been forgotten.
CarbonNanotubes 9/4/2025||
One thing I noticed shortly after when I initially switch Arc a couple years ago from Firefox, ads were more targeted at me and I definitely felt more tracked online. I started using Zen Browser at work because they blocked Arc for Windows (Zen blocked as well but I can run the Twilight build without being blocked :D) and the more I used it I just like it better than Arc in general and it was nice to be back to using Firefox again. When Arc went into maintenance mode it was just that last thing to finally get me to move off of it and over to Zen everywhere.
ghm2199 9/5/2025||
Arc is based on chromium I believe and that has manifest v3 which means poorer ad blocking afaiu. I won't touch any chromium implementation with a 10 foot pole because of this exact reason. Arc also does not allow you to export bookmarks natively. i had to use a 3p script to do it
bathwaterpizza 9/5/2025|||
One big limitation for me is how they can't display DRM protected content like Netflix
keijay 9/5/2025|||
zen's performance issues really need to be addressed tho... it hogs an insane amount of memory (and somehow even more than arc)
jimmydoe 9/4/2025||
Zen is nice.

Arc is still irreplaceable for its true separation of tab and window, it’s like tmux for browser, I haven’t seen any other browser do that.

felarof 9/4/2025|||
We are in early stages, but as a big Arc fan myself, we want to bring build this feature.

If you can raise a github issue, we can get to work asap https://github.com/browseros-ai/BrowserOS

shuckles 9/5/2025||||
Pinned tabs in Safari propagate between windows.
nicoka11 9/4/2025||||
Actually you can do it in chrome (having multiple profiles basically), but yeah nowhere as good as arc is, i'm using zen rn but still very sad for arc, I have some hopes they bring back arc to life (either directly or inside of Dia)
Reagan_Ridley 9/4/2025||
I think the one you replied to was referring the fact that Arc can have multiple windows (terminal) "attach" to same tab (tmux session), that has nothing to do with profile.
s__s 9/5/2025||
Zen can do that too. Check out: https://docs.zen-browser.app/user-manual/split-view
globular-toast 9/5/2025|||
Emacs does that.
Shank 9/4/2025||
I would've actually expected a buyer like OpenAI or Anthropic, if I'm being perfectly honest. Atlassian is such a strange buyer. $610m in cash is really low in the grand scheme of AI pricing too. If they're only worth $610m, I feel like this says a lot that "AI browsers" aren't actually worth that much. Remember, Instagram was $1b. The Windsurf acquihire was $2.4b and there are surely a lot more people in business that use browsers than write code.

Was Atlassian the highest bidder, or was Atlassian the only bidder?

k9294 9/4/2025||
It looks really overpriced to me. Dia is a rough MVP. Arc is really a very niche browser with little adoption. I dont think technology worth this money, and Arc the user base is low compared to major browsers, probably around 1-5 million users with no growth (most likely they hit the plateau even before they decide to kill the Arc in favor of Dia).
tripletpeaks 9/4/2025||
This is the first I’m hearing of either of these products, or this company. If you’d asked me what a program named Dia was ten minutes ago, I’d have confidently replied that it’s an open source gui diagramming tool.
rgblambda 9/5/2025|||
Dia is the Irish word for "God". Probably not what The Browser Company were going for, but I can't unthink that when I see it.
democracy 9/5/2025|||
Same, and I don't not really wanna try:

"A new AI browser from the makers of Arc: Chat with your tabs"

say what??? )))

warthog 9/4/2025|||
Considering they never made revenue, there must be more than one bidder - otherwise the price could have been much lower. I remember them raising at $500 MM at the last round
new_here 9/4/2025|||
Agreed, OpenAI and Anthropic want to get as close to the user as possible. Browser is used more often than a specific website or standalone desktop app and much less work than an entire OS. Raycast also seems well positioned but perhaps more niche.

Perhaps Atlassian was sitting on cash and needed to make some bets. If you can build a big enough user base for a browser it can earn handsomely from AdWords type referral fees. Look at what Google pays Apple to be default on Safari and how much referral spend Chrome recouped for Google etc. Maybe Atlassian will try and promote Dia to its customer base and look to launch more AI type commercial product discovery experiences like Perplexity Shopping.

utyop22 9/4/2025||
"Perhaps Atlassian was sitting on cash and needed to make some bets

Perhaps investors should put on a stupidity discount and discount the value of cash when valuing the value of equity!

RachelF 9/4/2025||
Given Atlassian's terrible product quality, I give it two years until anything they buy becomes borderline unusable frustration.
blackqueeriroh 9/5/2025||
Would love hear what, specifically, you find terrible about the quality of their products!
jshchnz 9/4/2025||
$610M, all cash??? How were they worth that much... all they seemed to ever do was rebrand
Waraqa 9/4/2025||
"Arc isn’t just a Chromium fork. It runs on custom infrastructure we call ADK — the Arc Development Kit. Think of it as an internal SDK for building browsers (especially those with imaginative interfaces). That’s our secret sauce. It lets ex-iOS engineers prototype native browser UI quickly, without touching C++."

https://open.substack.com/pub/browsercompany/p/letter-to-arc...

scosman 9/4/2025|||
A UI framework? What’s the other $608m for?
Groxx 9/4/2025|||
Yeah, I kinda read that as "it's not just a chromium fork with additional code. the code is organized. nobody has ever done that before!"
ausssssie 9/4/2025||||
Or... A UI framework? what's the other $612m for?
ale 9/4/2025|||
Just like the old Carlin joke. Made me chuckle.
shruggedatlas 9/5/2025|||
I wanted you to know that, due to this comment, I "lost" approximately 45 minutes watching George Carlin's best jokes
potamic 9/5/2025|||
What was the joke?
manquer 9/4/2025||||
Is a browser SDK for iOS worth that kind of money targeted users who are comfortable with Objective-C and not C++ even a market of note.

It would be one thing if they said it is for say JS developers or something a-la electron there are plenty of apps from MS teams to slack to linear etc who perhaps would pay for that enough, but swift /objective C dev not comfortable with c++ would be minuscule market ?

daveidol 9/4/2025||
ObjC is mostly dead, and most Swift devs are not comfortable with C++.
manquer 9/5/2025||
C++ isn't all that much harder or different from Swift to learn. They play fairly well with each other, you can import and call C++ quite easily from Swift.

It is not like switching from a REPL, browser friendly,inferred typed forgiving language like say JavaScript to Rust with the occasionally cryptic compiler, the unforgiving borrow checker and ownership concepts.

Perhaps people are less comfortable with the libraries and SDKs and tooling from the C++ world for app development. I didn't imagine that such a market was worth buying a company for $610M in 2025 when most apps are web based in one way or other.

cosmicgadget 9/4/2025||||
Sounds perfect for Atlassian's love of "imaginative" interfaces.
rafram 7 days ago||||
For all those playing at home: this blog post contains 46 em-dashes.
weaksauce 9/4/2025||||
that's kinda funny since that's basically exactly how firefox does it with the chrome of the browser being javascript and html and css itself.
hahn-kev 9/4/2025||||
How's that different from Electron?
buzzert 7 days ago||||
Probably a Swift wrapper for the Chromium Embedded Framework.
IshKebab 9/5/2025|||
Cool, but $600m cool? I don't see how.
djoldman 9/4/2025|||
100% agree. The odds of this investment paying off feel slim to none.
NoteyComplexity 9/5/2025|||
Probably they were just chasing the hype because the word AI appeared in the browser, considering the news mentions “browser with AI features”. So does their acquisition news.

I hope I am wrong.

guluarte 9/4/2025|||
It would have made sense if they had a large user base or groundbreaking tech, but they are just a Chrome fork with a very niche set of users.
theappsecguy 9/4/2025||
I mean have you seen some of the valuations for VSCode forks with some AI slapped on haha. I agree that this seems a lot for what I assume is a product with no solid revenue stream
al_borland 9/4/2025||
I lost all faith in The Browser Company when they went into a maintenance-only mode with Arc to shift to Dia, without any real announcement. Just a reply to a Twitter post calling them out. They figured no one would notice. I think they eventually addressed it after some public pressure, but I don’t think they sold the decision well.

AI seems like a feature to add to existing browsers, not something that needs its own dedicated browser. People’s workflows get tied to a browser, especially one like Arc, so to proclaim it done, with no need for any new features after just a couple years, while most expect a browser to carry on for decades, left a really bad taste in my mouth.

I was excited when they launched, but won’t miss them. They felt more like a dev backed hype machine. I’m not sure what Atlassian has planned, but won’t be surprised if they kill the browsers and integrate some tools into their existing product line.

hbn 9/4/2025||
Hey, give them a break. Arc is like... 2 years old. You can't expect anyone to maintain legacy code THAT OLD!

That's like 17 hot new frameworks out of date!

julianozen 9/4/2025|||
I've been using it for 4 years!
democracy 9/5/2025||
We are looking for someone with 10 years of experience though! Rejected!
muragekibicho 9/4/2025||||
The java, it is scripting, all day, every day, hakol hayom
CarbonNanotubes 9/4/2025|||
yea, I guess Google, Microsoft, Apple and Mozilla also ditch their work after only two years as well...

Also 2 years or even 4 years is not that long at all

rkomorn 9/4/2025||
I'm not a mind reader but I think the post you replied to was sarcasm.
neodymiumphish 9/4/2025||
I am a mind reader and can confirm the post he replied to was sarcasm.
rkomorn 9/5/2025||
Do you do contract work? I've got some minds that need reading.

And can you read dog minds?

neodymiumphish 9/5/2025||
No, I only use my powers for good.

And your dog wants pets and treats.

neodymiumphish 9/4/2025|||
Actually, I think the switch to Dia was them providing certain potential buyers proof that they (as a dev team) could build a new browser with a completely different UI and mindset/intent quickly. Essentially just something to prove their "Arc Dev Kit" efficiency.
julianozen 9/4/2025|||
Yep, you nailed it.

Why would I try/migrate to a new workflow after they axed my old one. You can't rebuild customer trust after that

CarbonNanotubes 9/4/2025||
I just switched to Zen instead.
rvschuilenburg 9/4/2025||
Zen was a bit rough around the edges when it first launched, but it's a solid replacement to Arc now. Honestly don't miss Arc anymore.
dbbk 9/4/2025||
And you know how much VC it has raised?

$0.

amykhar 9/4/2025|||
I also hated that they were trying to make it a free tool, which would mean selling user data to make money, and would require growth at all costs.

These days, I'm trying to migrate to paid tools. I would much rather work with a slower growing company that has a real business model other than grow and sell out.

al_borland 9/4/2025|||
Same. Old business models make more sense to me and seem healthier for customers, employees, and the economy. Growth at all costs, with the goal of a quick and profitable exit only benefits the founders, and is generally a net loss for society as a whole.

I can’t say I’d be above taking the briefcase full of money when dangled in front of my face, but when that’s the goal from the outset, the incentive structure feels backward.

thewebguyd 9/4/2025||||
> a real business model other than grow and sell out.

This is why I have problems trusting any new SaaS these days. The industry has changed from wanting to build a good product to wanting to grow fast and then exit, and typically the users get screwed.

You just can't trust that anything will stick around, so why bother adopting the tool in the first place, especially for anything that's not open source.

knr2345 9/5/2025||||
I share your sentiment but still can’t imagine adding a browser-specific AI subscription alongside my current GPT or Claude sub.
blackqueeriroh 9/5/2025||||
Dia was paid. Dia Pro cost $20/mo
lotsofpulp 9/4/2025|||
Assuming the business has access to the data, the backup plan for the business is always to sell the data. There is very little chance the leaders of a business simply wind down the business and close the doors.
uni_baconcat 9/5/2025|||
The transition from Arc to Dia feels like Windows 10 to 11. They try to add new things to the old software, like Copilot on Windows and AI in Arc Max. But then they decide to make something entirely new instead, like Windows 11 and Dia.
felarof 9/4/2025||
I was a big fan of Arc too, they should at least open sourced it after abandoning.

Anyways, now we are building BrowserOS, an open-source alternative to Dia -- https://github.com/browseros-ai/BrowserOS

Leo_666 9/4/2025||
I'm also a big fan of Arc, and I'm currently a heavy user. I have zero interest in the upcoming Dia release - I feel like Dia is a step backward compared to Arc.
ljbred08 9/5/2025||
Yes! What good is a chatbot if you keep the old terrible UX? Chatbot + Arc: great! Chatbot + Chrome: Perplexity already did it pretty well so what's the point...
sniffers 9/4/2025||
Building Dia was such a colossal mistake, and the folks running TBCNY seem to not understand. They believe they are reinventing the wheel, and every time I hear them talk I cringe.
whalesalad 9/4/2025||
Selling for over half a billion dollars sounds like zero mistakes were made.
afavour 9/4/2025|||
Doesn't mean it isn't a mistake, just means you've conned someone into thinking your mistake was a good choice.
whalesalad 9/4/2025||
That is 99.99999% of all things in life. Business. Sales. Dating.
sniffers 9/4/2025||
What a horrifying outlook.
jereees 9/4/2025||
Horrifying? I think it’s humble to say unless you believe in perfection

Edit: lol I read conned as convinced.

sniffers 9/5/2025||
Yeah, treating dating like a con is a wild thing to assert.
sniffers 9/4/2025||||
They talk about their product like it's the reinvention of fire. Seems awful low for that. And if they made no mistakes, surely they wouldn't need to be acquired? Surely they'd be making their own money?

And there are plenty of stories of how they treat their employees that suggest there are absolutely mistakes being made.... company is a joke.

meshugaas 9/4/2025||||
their valuation from last funding in March 2024 was $550m, sold for $610m minus cash on hand. so basically at value...agreed that it's a nice windfall for these folks but relatively bad outcome. When you're building a new browser with AI a year before the trillion dollar AI industry goes bananas for AI browsers and you end up with 600 mil, that feels like an L.
jazzyjackson 9/4/2025||
On the other hand, what is an AI browser supposed to enable that justifies a billion dollar valuation?
meshugaas 9/4/2025||
preaching to the choir in absolute terms. in relative terms, if a random feature flag company can be bought for over a billion by an AI company, an AI browser company should be able to be sold for at least that much.
Reagan_Ridley 9/4/2025||||
Dia was built for VC, no user will really like it.
CarbonNanotubes 9/4/2025|||
why does everything need to be about making macho bucks? Make a good product and support it long term, don't sell out just to fill your pockets
whalesalad 9/4/2025||
When someone comes knocking on your door with a check for $610 million let me know if you have the restraint to say no and go back to work.
arnvald 9/4/2025|
I really appreciate that there's a company trying to reimagine browsers. Arc was an interesting idea, I used it for a few months, but in the end I switched back to Firefox. I haven't tried Dia yet, and now I'm not sure if I should.

I do think that selling a browser is going to be an extremely difficult task, so having an enterprise software machine with huge customer base might help it, but Atlassian strikes me as a company that will eventually just kill the project and turn this into a de facto acquihire.

Cu3PO42 9/4/2025||
If you liked Arc, you should try Zen. I understand it brings many of the same ideas to a Firefox base.
arnvald 9/4/2025|||
Thanks for recommendation, I'll give it a try
4ggr0 9/4/2025|||
+1, i used firefox since my childhood, never interested by Arc because it's idiotic to me that a browser requires an account. a while back someone suggested Zen, i now use it as my main browser since a bit over a month. really happy :)
conradfr 9/5/2025|||
I never tried it because I was on Windows at the time but I remember my brother raving about it constantly, that I had to try it etc (and reading other people saying the same thing).

I think he's still using it. He probably would have paid something for it.

But then overnight they just weren't interested on building it. So strange.

ljbred08 9/5/2025||
Right! So many people would have actually paid for Arc to keep active development going, but without even giving that option they switched to Dia...
sniffers 9/4/2025|||
Skip Dia, it's a security nightmare.
blackqueeriroh 9/5/2025||
Atlassian doesn’t kill the products of companies they acquire
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