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Posted by vidyesh 7 days ago

How RSS beat Microsoft(buttondown.com)
313 points | 181 commentspage 2
CoUHKT57BSe 6 days ago|
I, like many others on here, use RSS every day. In Thunderbird I have a whole bunch of feeds I subscribe to, one of which is this very website - Hacker News. I even made my own HackerNews extension in Thunderbird to make it even easier/quicker to open the links from the feed. RSS is great, I check them all throughout the day as I do my emails, all in the same app.
lloydatkinson 7 days ago||
Interesting, I’d never heard of that ICE. Seems that it could be considered a very very early idea in line with ActivityPub, which I also don’t really know much about.

I think, as someone that has a RSS feed on my blog, that RSS is a total mess and Atom was probably the better choice.

Maybe even some modern JSON based format would be OK, but maybe that’s what ActivityPub is?

Anyway, after dealing with the mess of images and inline HTML with CDATA in RSS, I have complete fatigue of the whole endeavour.

latexr 7 days ago||
> Maybe even some modern JSON based format would be OK

That’s what JSON Feed is. It’s supported by several RSS readers.

https://www.jsonfeed.org

> but maybe that’s what ActivityPub is?

No, that’s for social networking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActivityPub

masfuerte 7 days ago||
RSS was so badly designed that early versions weren't actually valid XML. I never understood why anyone used it after Atom was created.
account42 6 days ago||
Because people care about publishing or getting updates, not about the thing delivering them being valid XML or not.

RSS works. Atom splitting the standard into two probably did more harm than good. In the end it doesn't matter since every reader supports both and both do the job well.

asadotzler 6 days ago||
I chatted with Dean Hachomovich at a blogging conference as he was copying our (Firefox) tabbed browsing and RSS implementations. Soon after, a MS lawyer reached out to me to ask what they needed to do to re-use our RSS icon in the upcoming IE 7 release. We gave them the okay. I still have the jacket he gave me with "Longhorn loves RSS" on it.
maxglute 6 days ago||
I'm still hoping for AI agents to mature to a point where they can be universal scrapers for my RSS. Have a headless client, scraping, interpreting websites in the background... burn excess cpu cycles and dead dinosaurs to replicate universal RSS dream.
tracker1 6 days ago||
I'd like to see a "new" RSS standard based around newline delimited json, where the summary text is a minor extension to GFM (to support left/right/spread images, minimal formatting, basically match medium.com options). This can allow a common reader to do a display that renders to their own liking (colors, font, etc).

Beyond this, maybe a framework to show a single header ad on the reader giving the revenue credit and money to the original content site.

The reason for newline separated json, is simply that you can do a partial content download in the reader... the most recent 100kb or 2mb or whatever... you the most recent is on top, and allows a site to publish more than just the most recent, but you don't have to grab that. Or maybe just standardize a since=(iso-style-datetime) or last=## (number of articles).

Just a couple loose thoughts on this.

PaulRobinson 7 days ago||
I still think there is a future for web publishing - from indie to corporate - if people stop feeding the algorithm machine with both sides of the supply and demand market, and move it elsewhere.

People found the web more boring, because it became more boring.

They found the algorithm more interesting, because it allowed them to see what was going on with people they barely knew (from former school mates they'd lost touch with to celebrities without press filtering), and that was compelling.

But there's a next phase available to us, which is to make the web more interesting, entertaining and compelling again.

I love that b3ta.com still exists. I love that metafilter.com is moving on. I think it's great that web comics I love still publish to RSS.

I just think more of us need to provide more demand, and more people will wake up to supply, and the flywheel will start to turn.

RSS beat ICE, and it can beat Meta and X if people want it too, albeit for different reasons.

AtNightWeCode 7 days ago||
Then Microsoft took out revenge by adding the worst RSS integration ever to Windows/Outlook.
charcircuit 7 days ago||
>All RSS had to do to weather ICE, Twitter, AI, and whatever comes next

RSS did not weather Twitter. Social media is huge compared to RSS. It turned out that singular recommendation feeds are able to push URLs around better than needing every site to build in feeds themselves and then still requiring someone to turn those feeds into a singular feed for the user.

IgorPartola 7 days ago||
I think there are a couple of things here.

First, RSS has a bit more friction. Smashing the follow button on Twitter et al is faster than adding the feed to your RSS reader of choice unless your OS has support for default RSS app.

Second, discoverability. Just like with any distributed system vs monolithic platform, you need to find what to read yourself. For some niches this works well. If you are a software developer/hacker, you are more familiar with blogs in your area of interest. But if you have a wide range of interests you’d need to find the blogs yourself and hope their RSS feed is well formatted.

Third, the algorithm. A monolithic platform can do more to try to mix in new content based on your interests and intelligently mix up the content from sources you follow. This is of course controversial because feed algorithms can also try to cram bullshit into your feed or hide important stuff from you or create an echo chamber. But in the best case scenario they can also expose you to new sources of content you wouldn’t have found otherwise. An RSS reader would mean it is up to you to do this discovery which is more friction.

And ultimately content creators realized that they get more eyeballs on their stuff by using platforms like Facebook, Medium, Instagram, Twitter, than on blogs especially since blogs tend to be then repackaged by blog spam bots, Google’s AMP, and now LLMs.

So IMO RSS is just too manual and requires too much work. And of course since you can’t effectively advertise through it there is less incentive for creators and platforms to support it.

threetonesun 7 days ago|||
BlueSky and Mastodon both support RSS feeds. The loss from Google Reader dying was huge, more so than Twitter, but it’s probably balanced by the growth in Podcasts.
giveita 7 days ago|||
RSS feels like a cable. Cables won! Because you need them to power your devices and pipe your home internet. Cables lost! Because of 5G and WiFi. Maybe cables dont care, they just do their job.
ubermonkey 7 days ago||||
So did Twitter pre-Elon. I moved a number of "public personalities" with high-volume feeds from my follow list to my RSS reader. I liked what Merlin Mann, or Parker Molloy, or John Green had to say, but I wasn't going to interact with them, and their loquaciousness made it hard to keep up with people I followed there that I actually knew and interacted with.

Then I remembered that Twitter was once referred to as "micro blogging," so I put those folks in my blog list on Feedbin, and was happy again.

I do miss the glory days of Twitter, tbh.

charcircuit 7 days ago|||
Most people consume those services via the app or website and not via the RSS feed.
Vinnl 7 days ago|||
I don't think that market is zero-sum, so the question is not about who "won", it's whether any player lost. Despite Twitter being big, RSS is still widely used and, perhaps more importantly, widely supported and thus usable. That counts as weather in my book.

(In contrast, ICE did not weather RSS.)

giancarlostoro 7 days ago|||
I was going to say, RSS is not as big as I remember it being back in the late 2000s. I remember people having RSS clients, myself included. Now I can't remember the last time I ever used one. Where RSS is most prominent I guess is podcast feeds which were based on RSS to my understanding.
Gormo 6 days ago|||
OTOH, I can't imagine not using an RSS reader. I'm sitting here with Liferea on my desktop connected to my TT-RSS server, which I use to manage pretty much everything I subscribe to: blogs, podcasts, YouTube channels, webcomics, subreddits, and several aggregators including HN. Having to access all of those separately via their own websites sounds like a nightmare.
frizlab 7 days ago||||
I read HN top submissions through RSS \o/ I have a lot of other feeds too in my reader. I don’t think I could function without it, newswise.
vaylian 7 days ago|||
> which were based on RSS to my understanding.

They still are in most cases.

Gormo 6 days ago||
A podcast, by definition, is an RSS feed -- if it doesn't have RSS, it's not a podcast.
frou_dh 7 days ago|||
Back when Twitter was less controversial, I remember tons of techie folks gleefully saying that they didn't bother with RSS any more because Twitter was better.
zahlman 6 days ago||
The author seems to live in a bubble where people are aware of RSS feeds. This article is the first I'd even heard of ICE in the first place. While multiple companies are listed as being behind ICE, no examples are given of websites that actually provided a feed for it.

Meanwhile, RSS is barely relevant today. For decades (Youtube turned 20 this year), people have had access to feeds curated by "the algorithm" operated by a commercial interest (hoping to maximize the amount of ads you look at); and most people seem to prefer it that way, if they're even aware of alternatives.

keithnz 6 days ago|
Then google killed it, they made a great product, Google Reader, then killed it, and then after that huge amounts of RSS feeds just faded away.

Ironically, my microsoft feeds are pretty active, and xkcd is still there, The Daily WTF is still going strong.... but a lot of my feeds are just dead.

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