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Posted by geerlingguy 4 days ago

YouTube is a mysterious monopoly(anderegg.ca)
368 points | 477 commentspage 2
logsr 3 days ago|
YouTube was built on piracy and then Google bought YouTube and got immunity from copyright infringement claims by selling its user data to LE/IC in exchange for legal immunity. YouTube is still powered by piracy world wide. They only enforce copyright controls in western markets where the potential consumer is expected to have the income to afford streaming services. This is on par for the entire Google empire, which is all built on piracy, whether it is putting their ads on other people's content, redistributing other peoples's content without licenses, or building AI built on unlicensed content. And the whole thing works because they give their users personal data to intel and law enforcement in exchange for back door immunity deals.
kelvinjps10 3 days ago|
I remember that before I knew a lot f people that used to watch movies on YouTube
AraceliHarker 3 days ago||
Even without directly visiting the YouTube site, it's impossible to avoid contact with YouTube because its videos are embedded everywhere. In that sense, YouTube's influence is extremely large. I feel that the FTC might have been better off trying to separate YouTube from Google rather than Chrome.

The blog mentioned that the forced activation of Restricted Mode could have reduced video views, and while it's true that Restricted Mode blocks live streams, which could affect those who focus on live content, it basically doesn't block soft porn, violent videos, or political content. So, I don't think it's relevant.

bitpush 3 days ago||
> I feel that the FTC might have been better off trying to separate YouTube from Google rather than Chrome.

On what joy? The biggest mistake that DoJ did was asking to court to divest Android & Chrome. Judge took grave offense at that (read the court's opinion) and there's a school of thought that said it distracted from the whole thing.

Once you start being imprecise, all your arguments fall apart.

mercutio2 3 days ago||
I am so fascinated by the different worlds everyone lives in.

I haven’t watched a video hosted on YouTube in years. But I hate amateur video. I never watch anything that I can possibly get through reading.

So in my tiny corner of user space, it’s really as if YouTube doesn’t exist except as an annoying thing Google puts at the top of searches I have to scroll past, reminding me to configure this device to use a different search engine.

clan 3 days ago||
It is a choice. But as you are probably aware; not one many makes.

While I do prefer to read as well I do like some of the better videos. Sometimes the information density is not as high as I would like - there are reasonable efforts.

Sure, there is amateur content. But there is a surprising amount of original researched content with a high production value.

A recent example with a scientific approach to cooking with some fun high quality references to Breaking Bad:

https://youtu.be/NnzADfbBBFo

Yes - they want to (discretely) sell thermometers as well. Not all is good. But very far from amateur.

manveerc 4 days ago||
Wonder what’s the cause of decline in views. One plausible reaction I had was that views might be down because of people using AI search (ChatGPT, etc) which unlike Google don’t show videos prominently. But since likes haven’t gone down that doesn’t seem likely.
TiredOfLife 4 days ago||
Apparently very few people use the subscriptions list and rely on the videos they subscribe and watch to appear on the Youtube homepage. And youtube changed what videos they put there. Instead of new videos by people you watch and related ones they show:

videos you just watched

videos you watched 10 years ago

auto dubbed videos on topics you are not interested

clickbait videos with 10 views

anything, but what you are used to watching

eimrine 3 days ago|||
If I chose from your list I prefer anything with 10 views. Little channels is the place where the best possible content is concentrated. And BTW little channels never use arrows and similar lowball clickbait strategies.
geerlingguy 3 days ago|||
Nicely summarized in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHEXAjdo44A
Simran-B 4 days ago|||
My first thought when I read AI search was that people might use it for instructions rather than tutorials and troubleshooting videos.
Hackbraten 3 days ago|||
Could it be related to mandatory Widevine encryption?

On my phone, the mobile site (m.youtube.com) has introduced Widevine a couple of weeks ago (last week of August IIRC). No idea if I’m just unlucky and part of a shitty A/B experiment, but I definitely had to recompile libc (being on Linux) with patches from Chromium and install Widevine so I could watch videos again.

Whenever I replace my patched libc with the unpatched original, then the Widevine plugin crashes everytime I try to play back a video on m.youtube.com. And it used to work before.

spydum 3 days ago|||
My pet theory is the war on ad blocking aka manifestv2 deprecation: https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate...
SchemaLoad 4 days ago|||
I wouldn't think google search is a significant source of views anyway. Last I saw, the top platform for youtube usage is TVs.
maltelandwehr 4 days ago|||
In August, Youtube received about 6 billion clicks from organic search. That is 20% of Youtube's total website traffic. I think that is significant.

Source: Similarweb, world-wide

Simran-B 4 days ago|||
Did they drop support for the YouTube app on very old TVs or ban a bunch of those cheap Android TV boxes with a lot of spyware on them by any chance?
mrweasel 3 days ago|||
While I have no idea, I just think it would be funny if this is YouTube blocking a massive number of bots/scrapers.
eloisius 4 days ago|||
Anecdotal, but for a while it felt like YouTube had decent content on whatever I was looking for. I trusted product reviews on there ever so slightly more than text content because of the relatively higher cost of producing videos. Nowadays there’s a glut of low quality stuff. Anything from low-effort videos to outright text-to-speech, non-videos that snare you using a promising thumbnail. The search results only surface about 5-10 relevant videos followed by things that have specious relevance. On top of that, they jammed Shorts into prominent screen real estate. It screams “hey while I’ve got you here, about a few of these distractions!”

So, I stopped going there as much. They stopped respecting visitor intentions. Just like every other platform, they just want to keep you on the site for as long as possible sifting through a feed of dopamine slop.

conradfr 4 days ago||
As TFA says, you can't even be sure what constitute "a view" and if Youtube keeps that consistent.
wizardforhire 3 days ago||
This is gonna be unpopular with the most of the commenters so far…

Regardless I don’t think youtube is a monopoly.

A monopoly caries with it strict anti-competitive practices along with meddling in government affairs and great public harm. Just because something has market dominance does not make it a monopoly.

Facebook is a monopoly. Complete dominance of the entire social graph, aggressively buying competitors to silence them… direct government meddling not just in the us but abroad creating untold deaths and suffering in the process… to the point they rebrand themselves to skirt responsibility… thats a monopoly.

Live nation buying up entire cities worth of venues, artist managers, booking agents, artists themselves, ticketing, promotion companies, subsequently entire production staff, blacklisting anyone they dont like, meddling with politics, obfuscating their activities through subsidiaries, destroying entire communities and cultures in the process… thats a monopoly

Youtube could be a monopoly but I dont see them squashing their most successful creators from creating their own streaming services, I dont see them directly meddling with politics on a large scale (granted there was that time the algorithm would tend towards promoting fascism, but rather than keep that going or doubling down I see the opposite which implies active intent to the contrary), I dont see them aggressively purchasing competitors… I see them as ridiculously huge and I find their censorship annoying that if government was working I would think should be examined from a public responsibility stance but I dont see them engaged in monopolistic practices… in fact I see them actively avoiding most activities that would make them a monopoly that is of course other than being really really huge.

shayway 3 days ago|
> Just because something has market dominance does not make it a monopoly.

Isn't that the definition of a monopoly though? Just because something is a monopoly, that doesn't mean it necessarily has anti-competitive practices or meddles in government. (though that usually follows)

For what it's worth I agree that YouTube isn't abusing their market position, but it's important the semantics are clear.

wizardforhire 3 days ago||
I guess so, but thats the problem with language that isnt specific enough. What I feel people are discussing and what I was referring too was more properly called an illegal monopoly… technically having market domination is also a monopoly, but thats not a crime.

The Hypothetical Monopolist Test is a primary method used to define relevant markets in antitrust cases. It assesses whether a hypothetical monopolist could profitably impose a small but significant and non-transitory increase in price (SSNIP).

Steps in the Test Market Definition: Identify the relevant product and geographic market.

Price Increase Assessment: Determine if a hypothetical monopolist could raise prices without losing too many customers.

Iterative Process: If the price increase is profitable, the market is correctly defined. If not, the market definition is expanded to include substitutes.

To establish a monopolization claim, two main elements must be proven:

Possession of Monopoly Power: The firm must have significant and durable market power.

Willful Acquisition or Maintenance: The firm must have obtained or maintained this power through improper means, rather than through competition on the merits.

Havoc 3 days ago||
From what I can tell latest consensus is that views haven't actually dropped, just how yt discloses them. i.e. What constitutes a "view" in the stats appears to have changed. The other engagement metrics (likes etc) seem to have not moved suggesting nothing has changed in real world. LTT went into it in a fair bit of detail
jajuuka 3 days ago||
Way too much discussion of Youtube is mired in monetization. Not platform sustainability, but how much wealth content creators can extract from it. It's a bit perverse and views the audience as a source to sqeeze revenue from. It's like making open source software or wikipedia only about how much creators can make.
flanked-evergl 3 days ago||
YouTube has a superior offering to competitors, just like Spotfify has a superior offering to YT music. I pay for both Spotify and YouTube, but I don't listen to music on YT music because Spotify is just a vastly superior solution for delivering the music.
netcan 4 days ago||
>I also think it would take some doing to get advertisers to jump on a new platform when YouTube has almost all the viewers.

Volume isnt even your main issue here. YouTube ads are powered by adwords... that all advertisers already use. It comes with tracking and user-analytics built in.

You can't compete with YouTube by replicating this business model.

Even so.. direct YouTube ad revenue per view is low. Many successful tubers monetize with sponsors. That is replicable, if a (single) tuber has enough views.

I think there can be markets for smaller, paid video sites... but that's not really a competitor to YouTube. It's more like competition for substack.

The way YouTube is managed, including all the reasons for criticism, are why it is successful.

Legible rules have loopholes. Keeping advertisers "on their toes" with mystery rules is a strategy.

It makes sense to keep the platform as unoffensive as possible. Strict nudity rules, and other such "hard" rules. Demonetization gives yotube a chance to implement soft/illegible rules... many of them simply assumed or imagined. It also makes business sense to suppress politics a little. The chilling effect is intentional.. and understandable.

Honestly, I think the more open alternative to YouTube is podcasting. Podcasting has terrible discovery, and video is underdeveloped but... it also has persistence that proves it is a good platform.

Half of "the problem" with YouTube is Google running the platform and pursuing their own interests. These are somewhat restrictive, but they also make sense.

The other half is intense competition for daily attention. That's what a low friction, highly accessible platform does. You can't have everything.

Without all the restrictions and manipulations that YouTube do, the platforms would be 100% nudity, scandals and suchlike.

Razengan 3 days ago||
YouTube's vast hoard of videos is a crucial piece of human history. If nothing else, it should be preserved via government mandate or something.

Ever seen a colorized video from 1900? It's like a time machine. Imagine looking at today's videos, 100-200 years from now..

kelvinjps10 3 days ago|
I wonder if dynamic ads are even necessary. Meaning that it seems like the most creators more money from sponsors, meaning that companies directly sponsor creators. It could work similar to podcasts people post podcasts and they are available in RSS, and multiple podcasts platforms, for the videos they could be available in something like pee tube or similar to podcasts where there is multiple players created. And for creators they get directly contracted by companies, as this might present problems there could be a company that acts as the mediator between sponsors and creators
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