Top
Best
New

Posted by geerlingguy 5 days ago

YouTube is a mysterious monopoly(anderegg.ca)
368 points | 477 commentspage 6
jahooligan 4 days ago|
YouTube is broken plain to see and simple from my pov since 2019 at least as is ggl search. It is awful.

Hijack data-centers with Gorillas. re-claim the community ...

Insanity 3 days ago|
Have no idea what your last sentence means.. But that said - if you're claiming that YT search is broken I wholeheartedly agree. I don't understand how search on YT can be so bad given that it's owned by a search engine company.

Then again, their search engine is also subpar nowadays.. :)

fabioyy 4 days ago||
since google is tier 1 network. does anyone knows if they pay for bandwidth for serving youtube?
bauruine 4 days ago|
They aren't a tier 1 but they also aren't paying for most of their bandwdith. They peered very liberally in the past so have zero settlement peering to most networks and if you're a big enough eyeball network you can request a caching server from them where you pay for rack space, power and network and google just pays for the server hardware. [0]

[0]: https://support.google.com/interconnect/answer/9058809

NoPicklez 4 days ago||
> I also think that YouTube is a monopoly.

This sentence is just oddly thrown in there and is made the title of the article. Yes they're a monopoly, but so what? As you say they're the best bang for buck subscription service on the market.

The problem is that they are unable to see why their viewership has dropped, that's it. I'm sure Youtube might provide context as to why at some point.

Workaccount2 4 days ago||
The answer is paying/watching ads.

Nobody wants to hear ad-blocking has negative effects. But it does, and it's effectively killed off any YouTube competitor.

All a VC has to do is read a comment section on the topic of yt to say "nope" to funding a competitor.

dmix 4 days ago||
> Today I saw a video by the RedLetterMedia folks on this topic. If you’re not familiar with their work, be warned that the video is vulgar and juvenile (sorry, I love their stuff).

Huh? RLM is about as inoffensive as it gets

geerlingguy 4 days ago|
Heh, maybe haven't watched some of their deeper cuts; back in the day they were a lot more edgy especially with series like Plinkett Reviews. They've toned it down a bit, but they're definitely not a 'family friendly' channel in some of the content they release (not in a bad way, just... I wouldn't put on a random RLM video at a grade school function!).
dmix 3 days ago||
I’ve watched nearly every video but I may have a different tolerance having grown up with South Park.
BurningFrog 4 days ago||
Sorry to be cranky, but it's a bit annoying when people call market leaders "monopolies".

Words are best when they have meaning!

LastTrain 4 days ago||
Isn’t a monopoly just a market leader that leverages its dominant position in anti-competitive ways? The article does make a (weak, IMO) argument that YouTube is using its position to screw creators out of revenue by gaming metrics.
mercutio2 4 days ago||
Monopolies are not illegal or ipso facto anti-competitive.
Dylan16807 4 days ago|||
What's your definition of monopoly?

They're something like 75% of video hosting, and if you exclude vimeo for being paid-only then it's over 90%. That sounds like a monopoly to me.

BurningFrog 3 days ago||
My point is that I don't have my own definition of words!

We should all use the common definition of words. That makes communication possible!

dictionary.com gives this definition: "exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices."

That's... not what I expected. To me having a monopoly means being the only provider, but I'll bend the knee to the dictionary.

In this case though, with competitors at 10% or 25% market share, you can easily publish videos at a cheaper vendor.

Dylan16807 3 days ago||
When the entire pool of competitors is only 10%, it's not so easy. You can put a video up but nobody will see it. The network effect of viewers is one of the big reasons to want multiple major sites.
eimrine 3 days ago|||
Do you agree that Google is a monopoly? Calling Google just a market leader is the situation when the words became too blurred to carry some meaning.
BurningFrog 3 days ago||
Google is active in dozens of markets. It may be a monopolist in some of them.

But you can't say it's a monopoly across the board.

eimrine 3 days ago||
If Google is really a monopolist on some markets, any other market from the dozen is needed to support the Google's monopoly. Kind of Apple's Facetime when decreasing number of clients for a tiny messenger makes a big support for rest of the Apple.
BurningFrog 2 days ago||
I honestly don't understand the point you're trying to make.
jamesnorden 3 days ago||
Microsoft was never a monopoly in the personal computer market by this logic.
gethly 5 days ago||
People still think that Youtube of today is the Youtube of yesterday. But that is not the case ever since the first adpocalypse.

Youtube began as a video hosting platform where creators got a huge cut from ads being shown on their video page. Today, the ads are injected into the videos and creators get only a tiny portion of the profits - if any. The views are gone as only (highly)monetised content is being promoted by the algorithm. Google simply prioritises making money for themselves instead of providing a service that merely breaks even.

Youtube has done what most businesses do - they pay the initial opex costs and provide some kind of freemium, they get huge number of users, then they monetise the sh.. out of them. And it always ends the same - the platform dies as users leave. Youtube is not any different. It's just so big that this process takes much longer than usual. But do not be fooled, it is happening.

Nowadays, people are slowly realising that there is no more free lunch and that you have to pay for the content(see how many streaming services there are compared to just a few years ago). This is why paywall services like Patreon are so popular(and why I have created my own as well as it is one of few viable online businesses left in the digital space).

Content creators who are relying on anonymous views, that Youtube always provided and which is now slowly dying, will end up out of business and many in debt due to costs of the video gear they bought and oversaturated marked/competition. There is plethora of this "i'm broke" videos on YT itself exposing the harsh reality of digital content creation of today.

On the other hand, smart content creators have realised that the way forward is to build smaller community of reliable fans and use paywalls/pay-per-view model, where they can charge tiny amount whilst getting 95% of it for themselves, which incentivises users to pay(ie. i am willing to pay 10 cents directly to my favourite content creator rather than 5$ to youtube). Some are stuck in the middle with injecting sponsored content into their own, but that will die out soon as well and likely YT will ban it straight up sooner or later. There will be some networks that host multiple creators, like we already have with unauthorized.tv, censored.tv and others. The YT alternatives like Odysee or Rumble will not survive as they are using the same outdated business model as Youtube does but they lack the backing of Google(not just money but infrastructure).

It will take time but people will eventually flock to specific content creators instead of relying on algorithms to recommended them content they might be interested in - as this has been completely broken for a decade now and caused huge amount of great content creators to just quit for good. A huge loss to humanity as a whole.

This will be the next generation of content creators whom will understand that the game has changed.

justapassenger 4 days ago||
[dead]
bitpush 5 days ago|
[flagged]
cptroot 5 days ago||
Here's an unrelated post by the video game content collective Second Wind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpVnx4_yqTo

Here's a post from another youtuber about a recent video getting restricted: https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxcapSFGmm6m59kSEn62RGOZsmUEK...

GavinAnderegg 4 days ago|||
I wrote up notes here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45180555 but this wasn't coordinated. As I mentioned in the first paragraph of the post, I was following a thread on Bluesky where Adrian and Jeff were chatting. I posted the article there. I didn't know Jeff had posted on Hacker News about this already, and I didn't know he would post my piece. I definitely would have done another editing pass if I had known!
KingMob 5 days ago|||
Two articles is "astro-turfing" and "coordinated"? We're going to need some stronger evidence than that.
bitpush 5 days ago||
The part that is confusing is Jeff himself posting this. There is only but one explanation - to increase the visibility of the issue.

Jeff is known for his rPi experiments, so the question is why this seemingly random blog post.

How did Jeff even get to know about this post? Unless the author sent it over to him?

Soo many questions. Mostly because the author of this blog post isn't a YouTuber (AFAICT)

rlupi 4 days ago|||
> How did Jeff even get to know about this post? Unless the author sent it over to him?

Google search alerts are a thing (https://www.google.com/alerts). I'd expect a public figure, however niche their following is, would set them up to track the conversation about them.

bitpush 4 days ago||
And once you see a post about you show up in Google Alerts, is the next step you do post that on HN?
hodgehog11 5 days ago|||
Uh, there have been dozens of videos of senior YouTube creators who have independently voiced alarm about this within the past few days. It's now been long enough since the algorithm change that statistical time series analyses can detect it. It is no coincidence or surprise that there should be several concerns raised here today. Many livelihoods depend on this. It's pretty serious for certain "celebrities".

Not to be rude, but this is one of several accusations of astroturfing I've seen on HN lately. They have all been so clearly off the mark that it makes me wonder if there was some event that triggered users here to be so paranoid?

bitpush 5 days ago||
> senior YouTube creators who have independently voiced alarm

Pretty sure they are all in a discord channel together.

hodgehog11 4 days ago||
Do you really think that Friendly Jordies, Jeff Geerling, Second Wind, Red Letter Media, Brodie Robertson, Game Grumps, Vinesauce, Dead Meat, Dark Viper, and Linus Tech Tips, for example, are in the same Discord channel (Friendly Jordies is an Aussie political channel for goodness sake, he couldn't care less about tech), and are part of a conspiracy to fabricate viewership data... to get sympathy? To draw attention to their channels? And as part of this plan, they astroturfed multiple social networks with this fake data for the last week?

Pretty sure YouTube made an algorithm change and it's causing problems. Again.

bitpush 4 days ago||
I didnt say any of that. You dont need to put words into my mouth to "win an argument".

I think it is reasonable to assume that most popular YTers are in a discord/telegram/whatsapp/text chain together. This is their community, so it makes sense to have a quick line of comms between them.

Just like how HN is a place for .. hackers to socialize, it is conceivable there's a $place where they meet and discuss inside-baseball stuff.

hodgehog11 4 days ago||
Okay, I am happy to hear that is not what you were implying; a bit extreme, but that's how I read your comments in light of the reality, taking the skepticism to its apparent conclusion. I genuinely did not intend to provide a straw man or to argue and apologize for doing so; I'm just not sure what else you were implying.

We know that large groups of YouTubers, particularly the "elite" ones, are in chats with each other, this is true. But the sheer variety of them talking about this from across different spaces on YouTube and different tiers makes it seem unlikely to me they are all in the same exclusive social space. I think we operate with different priors though.

docdeek 5 days ago|||
This article specifically mentions and links to Geerling’s piece.
fakeracismjudge 2 days ago||
[dead]
e40 5 days ago||
Another yter mailed out to his Patreons saying his views were down. Within the last week. Ze Frank.