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Posted by maksimur 9/10/2025

We can’t circumvent the work needed to train our minds(zettelkasten.de)
385 points | 178 commentspage 4
Amaury-El 9/11/2025|
I used to think it wasn't necessary to remember much, as long as I could look things up. But over time, I realized that without a personal mental framework, it's hard to judge whether what you find is actually valuable.

Some insights only emerge when knowledge has stayed in your mind long enough to collide and connect with other ideas. Tools can help, but it's the knowledge that has been internalized and shaped over time that holds the real power.

tkiolp4 9/10/2025||
I use AI at work, and certainly I’m doing less deep thinking over time. But at home, on side projects I still do it the traditional way. This is because I enjoy the process of thinking (rather than shipping. I actually never shipped any side project).

I guess I’m lucky, deep thinking (on interesting things at home) is a hobby so I feel less encouraged to automate that away. I never cared about my jobs, so as long as I bring home money, it’s fine.

chain030 9/11/2025|
And you just described exactly why firms are going to be hurt in the long run by what is happening.

Short run? Sure shipping seems to accelerate. But as you mentioned - you are actually downtooling and optimising for what you do outside of work. Which is what labour always does. But now you have a tool to enhance it!

ajuc 9/10/2025||
It's like with math. You could theoretically only memorize the axioms and rederive everything else on the fly.

But in practice, you don't have enough working memory or processing power to do that, so you'd be stuck with the math a few derivation steps above the axioms only.

To actually use math for problem solving, you need to memorize everything up to the bleeding edge, and to train yourself to operate on intermediate-level abstractions intuitively.

alphazard 9/10/2025||
> Rowlands et al. wrote about the so called “digital natives” that they lack the critical and analytical thinking skills to evaluate the information they find on the internet.

This doesn't match the cultural shift in the last 20 years. A generation of people grew up with chat rooms and immediately discovered the ability to misrepresent oneself on the internet. "On the internet, no one knows you're a dog", as they say. That whole demographic assumes that media is lying by default. Compare that to previous generations that trusted certain media institutions like cable news, newspapers, radio shows, etc. because the production value and scarcity of media instilled trust.

Trust in media institutions is at an all time low, and will likely never recover. That has to be attributed to the newer generations. They are more skeptical of propaganda than ever before. To them, the high production value media outlets are just a quaint legacy variety of content slop.

scottLobster 9/10/2025||
Well it doesn't help that the media, even when it doesn't lie, often simply refuses to report on various issues depending on the whims of producers.

I'm an older millennial, probably one of the last generations who was formally taught that organizations like the New York Times and CNN were authoritative, bibliography-worthy sources of information due to their reputation and standards. I haven't cared much about what either outlet has produced in years. For every good investigative piece there's a mountain of obvious propaganda or refusal to cover topics they find uncomfortable with any objectivity.

The signal to noise ratio is so low, why pay attention? There's a lot of bad takes on twitter and non-mainstream media (to put it mildly) but it at least makes me aware of more things.

neonrider 9/10/2025|||
> That has to be attributed to the newer generations. They are more skeptical of propaganda than ever before. To them, the high production value media outlets are just a quaint legacy variety of content slop.

Right. The skeptical newer generation knows better. It's the generation that is immune to influence. They're so resistant to it that they've finally driven advertisers to realize that spamming YouTube, IG, TikTok, with ads peddling some new hype every week is pointless.

Sarcasm aside, the newer generation, in any generation, is always as naive as they're said to be. You're not born with wisdom and your parents can't save you from the candle fire, no matter how much they try. Sooner or later, you'll have to burn that finger to learn. Life is an experience game. No way around it.

dragontamer 9/10/2025|||
> That whole demographic assumes that media is lying by default.

Yes. And then they turn around and trust that the Boston Marathon Bomber was some random kid because Reddit said so.

The new generation of netizens distrusts classic media and then suddenly trusts Reddit and Google searches and random blogs.

Bad Twitter arguments citing YouTube videos talking about a Redditors problem about Microsoft Updates and SSDs just broke through a week or two ago and nearly everyone involved in the discussion is utterly wrong.

RicoElectrico 9/10/2025|||
> If anything the newer generation is more skeptical of propaganda than ever before.

Laughs in Polish GenZ voting for Konfederacja (alt-right)

recursive 9/10/2025|||
Don't know anything about this particular party, but all the alt-right stuff I've seen leans heavily into skepticism of authority. Not exactly the same thing as propaganda, but might be a meaningful connection.
StefanBatory 9/10/2025||
Their slogan was "Nie chcemy Żydów, homoseksualistów, aborcji, podatków i Unii Europejskiej".

"We don't want Jews, gays, abortion, taxes and EU."

StefanBatory 9/10/2025|||
Yup, they don't trust mainstream, only to fall into niches. But they don't see it.

Kanał Zero is the best example.

blackbear_ 9/10/2025||
> They are more skeptical of propaganda than ever before.

Of boomer propaganda. But don't worry, as voters evolve, so does propaganda.

micromacrofoot 9/10/2025||
indeed... new generations don't believe the news, but they believe whoever they're currently enamored with on social media
DiscourseFan 9/10/2025||
Isn’t the irony of Pheadrus (the dialogue where Socrates speaks against writing) that its a written work, in a dramatic setting? Like, yes, writing, technology can make us stupid, but this article was written and transmitted to us via social media.
ripped_britches 9/10/2025||
I use chatgpt to learn a ridiculous amount of knowledge that was not possible in 2020.

If you are using it to only decrease cognitive load (instead of keeping cognitive load constant while doing MORE), then you’re using it wrong

rambambram 9/10/2025||
Off topic: This site has an input somewhere that takes focus on page load, but I can't see it. When I used the arrow down key some previously used suggestions jumped into view in a dropdown menu.
ctietze 9/10/2025|
Which browser?
lordnacho 9/10/2025||
It's like a cache level issue.

In the old world, you had your wet brain memory. You needed to fill it with the order of the alphabet, so that you could make use of paper reference works. You also needed some arithmetic and some English style notes, in case you wanted to express yourself. You had to remember things like there/their/they're and that kind of thing. You needed a small encyclopedia so that you could have a clue about where general knowledge could be found.

On top of this, you were expected to layer on your professional knowledge. If you were a doctor, a huge number of Latin terms. A more detailed understanding of how the body works that you got from the base installation. Something about how the profession works. You would get a sense for what was likely through experience. A BS detector, in some ways.

All because your brain ain't gonna get bigger, and paper information technology was what it was: found in a library, limited in size, hard to search, slow to update.

Nowadays, the brain cache is no different in capability. But the external memory system you are accessing is completely different. It's massive, it can update in real time, and it's very searchable.

So you need to keep different things in your brain cache to take advantage of this.

But what do you need?

The only component that really matters is the BS detector.

Not only do I not need to be able to do long division, I don't even need to know that a calculator exists for calculating my tax, a calculator containing the Haversine formula is out there somewhere, and a so on. I just assume something like epochconverter exists, and that I can plug a timestamp into it and get something readable out.

I just assume that I will be able to find things that I want, the tradeoff being that I don't have sit there and refresh my math knowledge to calculate distances on a sphere, type out a program, and run it for a single output. The other side of this coin is of course, I don't know whether the guy whose work I am borrowing did it correctly, whether he has some sort of interest he's not disclosed, and whether it's safe. I also have to compromise on any variation between what he built and what I wanted.

I do this with almost everything now. I can't help it, having grown up and been educated before the internet exploded, and having started work just as the explosion was happening.

So I'd say you actually don't have to remember everything, but you do have to use your judgement in everything.

hammock 9/10/2025|
As someone who can answer all of those questions about the workout plan in depth, it’s not a bad plan. It’s actually quite good. Missing a little detail but that’s OK.

Wasn’t a good example for me.

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