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Posted by nobody9999 2 days ago

Court rejects Verizon claim that selling location data without consent is legal(arstechnica.com)
655 points | 87 commentspage 2
bryanrasmussen 2 days ago|
what are the ways you can poison or fake your location data, like if Verizon in response to this decides to offer a cheaper plan for sharing your location data?
codeduck 2 days ago|
gps spoofer perhaps?
silisili 2 days ago||
It's much more likely they're selling tower triangulation data, but let me know if that theory is wrong.
its-kostya 2 days ago||
How much have they profited from selling this vs how much the fine was? Fines these days appear as just a cost of doing business.
electric_muse 2 days ago||
Carriers have been selling this stuff forever. The only surprise is that they were arrogant enough to argue it was outright legal rather than hiding behind “user consent” fine print.

The bigger issue is that every telecom treats location data as an asset class. If you think a court ruling will make them suddenly respect privacy, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. They’ll just bury consent deeper in the UX until it looks indistinguishable from compliance.

Terr_ 2 days ago||
As a fun but impractical thought-experiment, imagine the differences in a world with a rule like: "If you voluntarily share data about a customer which becomes instrumental in crime committed against that customer, the company is considered an accomplice to the crime."
rickdeckard 2 days ago||
It's not just telecom, the usage data of a product is naturally an asset of every company.

It's just a matter whether this data contains PI (=Personal Information) or (!) PII (=Personally Identifiable Information --> Information that can be combined with other data to create PI).

The EU GDPR (here mostly known for consent-popups on websites it seems) allows companies to keep this kind of data but requires very strict governance and user-consent if the data contains PI or PII.

And everyone who worked in a larger company at the time of enforcement saw the wonders it did. Suddenly whole departments reviewed the amount of data they collect, and found there was a huge portion of telemetry data that was actually NOT needed to preserve this asset-value (Names, Addresses, Serial numbers, etc...)

cwmoore 2 days ago||
Retroactively assign all future data value to...the next president?
rickdeckard 2 days ago|
Or transfer to the "Archive of the presidency" upon retirement of the current president, so it can be used to finance e.g. jet fuel... /s
cwmoore 12 hours ago||
Why not use olive oil instead?
eagerpace 2 days ago||
Are there any carriers that don’t do this?
Sandbag5802 1 day ago|
Funny that you say that, I just discovered this phone service called Cape - https://www.cape.co/

It was co-founded by John Doyle who led Palantir’s national security business before starting this company. I think this comment best describes why Cape was started in the first place:

"Cape is not disclosing valuation, but it’s notable that the funding is coming at a time when startups building military, defense, and security services are getting increased focus and priority at a time when geopolitics are shifting.

While many of those shifts are playing out at a much higher level involving wars, espionage against officers and officials, and major contacts between outsized industrial entities, Cape’s products and its growth are one of the rare examples of how some of that evolution is playing out at a consumer level"

source - https://techcrunch.com/2025/03/19/cape-opens-99-month-beta-o...

Ultimately, I still want to read up on them before considering making the switch.

bsstoner 1 day ago||
Hi -- I'm Head of Product at Cape (previously led product at DuckDuckGo). We are indeed trying to provide an alternative to all the data collection and sharing major carriers do in the US. Happy to answer any questions people have about Cape.
tonyhart7 2 days ago||
even with user consent, they should ban it period
xhkkffbf 1 day ago||
This may be the wrong time to ask this, but does anyone know where I can buy some location data? I don't want to ask for consent because I want the data (and the analysis) to be as general as possible.

That being said, I have a significant amount of flexibility. The data can be completely anonymized by stripping out the names, addresses etc. The location can be blurred by some radius that's roughly the size of the local census blocks groups. In other words, the location should be random enough to mix together 500-3000 people. The time can also be blurred by a radius of about a week or so. Options like differential privacy are encouraged.

The goal is not to track individuals, just get a rough measure of where they spend their time.

First, does anyone think this is a bad or dangerous set of data?

Second, if not, can anyone point me to some data brokers?

delecti 1 day ago|
Assuming this isn't a joke, find one of the services you can pay to get your data deleted from brokers, and then look at which brokers they delete data from. DeleteMe and Incogni both have lists. https://blog.incogni.com/opt-out-guides/ and https://joindeleteme.com/sites-we-remove-from/
xhkkffbf 1 day ago||
No. It's not a joke. There are many good research projects that we can do that don't need to compromise people's privacy. So we need to find a way to do it in a way that generates useful insights without making someone feel like the target of a stalker.
GJim 2 days ago||
So, when will 'murka wake up and protect its people with real data privacy laws like (or even better than) the GDPR?
danaris 1 day ago||
Definitely not until after the current fashion of fascism is over.

The only way to be able to get something like that passed will be if we can repudiate the money-first, Christofascist, rule-by-fear ideologies and positions that currently hold sway over one of our two viable political parties.

woadwarrior01 2 days ago||
The grass is always greener on the other side. I live in the EU and GDPR isn't much better. All it requires is "informed consent" (i.e a click or a tap on a button) from the "data subject" and people can evade privacy with impunity. The only side effect is that those of us on this side of the pond, get ugly cookie banners.
GJim 2 days ago||
> All it requires is "informed consent" (i.e a click or a tap on a button) from the "data subject"

Correct. Clear, opt-in informed consent to use personal data is the fundamental principle of the GDPR. As it should be. I'm puzzled why you think this is a negative.

> and people can evade privacy with impunity.

Certainly not. The GDPR does not permit data trawling or allowing data controllers to do what they like with your personal data once they have it. It must only be used for the purpose it was requested for.

> ugly cookie banners

Once again, there is no requirement for 'cookie banners'. You are free to use whatever cookies you want to run your site. HOWEVER, if you are using those cookies to track me (advertisers take a bow) then you need my clear, opt-in informed consent to do so. And so you should!

I continue to be astounded at the ignorance some people have of such a vital privacy law; one that is fundamental to modern data use and respect for the customer.

woadwarrior01 2 days ago||
> Certainly not. The GDPR does not permit data trawling or allowing data controllers to do what they like with your personal data once they have it. It must only be used for the purpose it was requested for.

You might want to read the privacy policies of some of the European fintech and ad-tech companies (nb: I've worked at some of them). They cast a wide blanket over all purposes.

At best, the GDPR only introduces a minor indirection, the problem of hoodwinking the "data subject" into clicking the accept button. At worst, it gives them false sense of privacy, where there isn't much.

GJim 2 days ago||
> At best, the GDPR only introduces a minor indirection, the problem of hoodwinking the "data subject" into clicking the accept button

True. Some people are daft enough to opt-in and click the "accept cookies" and "give my personal and location data to strangers" buttons. These people don't care about privacy and are beyond help.

> At worst, it gives them false sense of privacy, where there isn't much.

Those of us who bother to understand and use privacy law have very good protection thankyouverymuch.

taneq 2 days ago||
Oooh ooh now to Mastercard and your credit card transaction records!
1oooqooq 1 day ago|
you have to constantly advertise your location to get cell service (by design, didn't have to be so)

stores scan your phone radio and also aggregate this data to map your store visit.

this was all done with credit cards in the 50s and then outlawed, hence: reward programs.

so, can't wait for Verizon to offer a cell coverage reward program that is nothing but a waiver to your data, just like reward programs from credit cards of yore.

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