Germany is not supporting ChatControl – blocking minority secured

Posted by xyzal 2 days ago

Germany is not supporting ChatControl – blocking minority secured(digitalcourage.social)

1094 points | 350 commentspage 4

PicassoCTs 2 days ago|

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dcabot 1 day ago||

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nickslaughter02 2 days ago|

Just think for a moment how broken the EU model is. You don't want something to pass. Other citizens of your country don't want the thing to pass. Your politicians don't want that thing to pass. Your euro politicians don't want that thing to pass. Yet in the current model that doesn't matter one bit because your SOVEREIGN country may still be overruled by foreign countries and politicians.

It's unbelievable that we have allowed EU to spread into this all encompassing monster that deals with anything but economic cooperation among member countries.

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> European law has priority over any contravening national law, including the constitution of a member state itself

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law

seabass-labrax 2 days ago||

That is factually untrue. While governments of member states of the EU no longer have a direct veto against proposed EU legislation in many cases, the EU does not claim any sovereignty over member states.

If a member state fails to block a proposal, all that simply means is that the qualified majority[1] of representatives of other member states believes the legislation to be so important that the union would not work without it. Dissenting member states can seek to reverse or temper the legislation later, or simply leave the union - see Brexit. No sovereignty is violated at any point.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_the_Council_of_the_E...

nickslaughter02 2 days ago||

> Primacy of European Union law

> The primacy of European Union law (sometimes referred to as supremacy or precedence of European law[1]) is a legal principle of rule according to higher law establishing precedence of European Union law over conflicting national laws of EU member states.

The principle was derived from an interpretation of the European Court of Justice, which ruled that European law has priority over any contravening national law, including the constitution of a member state itself.[2][3][4] For the European Court of Justice, national courts and public officials must disapply a national norm that they consider not to be compliant with the EU law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law

seabass-labrax 2 days ago||

The primacy of European Union law applies to member states of the European Union. That is part of what the countries agreed to in order to become a member state. Some countries negotiated opt-outs for specific laws that they felt shouldn't apply to them before joining - and disgruntled member states could attempt the same by threatening to leave.

The only way that the European Union can 'force' compliance of a member state is for the EU Commission (or, exceptionally, the Parliament and Council) to withhold EU funds from that member state. Those funds were never the property of the member state in the first place though - again, no infringement on national sovereignty.

Vinnl 2 days ago|||

Other inhabitants of my town don't want something to pass. The local politicians of my town don't want something to pass. The politicians I elected to the national government don't want it to pass. Yet that doesn't matter one bit because my town my still be overruled by non-local towns and politicians.

This will always be a problem at every level.

fabbbbb 2 days ago|||

Is this a EU thing? Replace Country by municipality, province, state.

shakesbeard 2 days ago|||

That's literally how any representative democracy work, just at a different level? The Free State of Bavaria could say the same about the Federal Republic of Germany.

arlort 2 days ago|||

> Yet in the current model that doesn't matter one bit

It matters because if it's that important to you then you have a sovereign right to leave the EU and do away with all the rules you don't want

Staying inside of it and accepting primacy of EU law when decisions are lawfully taken following the process you've agreed to of your own country's free will is a choice

paintbox 2 days ago||

If entities comprising the union are not forced to compromise (and compromise by some type of majority is the most logical one), and want to pick and choose, then that is no union. And there can be no union like that.