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Posted by mji 9 hours ago

California lawmakers pass SB 79, housing bill that brings dense housing(www.latimes.com)
170 points | 66 commentspage 2
mutator 7 hours ago|
The discourse around high density housing does not make it clear what specific type of development do advocates prefer. Its likely that the market will have to decide for itself, but if we end up with an abundance of just 1/2 bedroom rental apartments, targeted towards transient younger people, I fear it's just going to enrich the property management class, and families with kids/older parents looking for larger places and hoping to establish roots are still going to stuck fighting the pricing/supply wars.
lalaland1125 6 hours ago||
I think you are incorrectly missing that many larger units (both 3+ bedroom apartments and houses) are currently filled with singles or couples with roommates who would rather live alone in 1 or 2 bedrooms, but can't due to inadequate supply.

Building 1/2 bedrooms would help those people move out, freeing up larger units for families.

> I fear it's just going to enrich the property management class

The property management class benefits most from the current system with no construction and high rents. Building a bunch of 1/2 bedrooms, triggering lower rents, would cause them to lose money.

rs186 6 hours ago|||
I'll choose tall apartments with 1/2 bedroom rental units over nothing every day.

The only people who don't like to see "young people" paying $2500 in rent instead of $3500 for a 400sqft studio are landlords.

nilsbunger 7 hours ago|||
The economics of 3BR family units are typically hard for developers to make money on. Bobby Fijan (https://x.com/bobbyfijan) is an example of a developer who is a vocal advocate of family-centric apartments and townhomes. His projects look amazing. He also talks about the challenges creating family housing.
davidw 7 hours ago||
Single stair reform is something that helps in terms of making more family sized units (aka 'homes').

I saw the author of this book give a talk earlier this year and found his point of view pretty convincing: https://islandpress.org/books/building-people#desc

epistasis 6 hours ago|||
You don't think that younger people need housing too?

How about all the empty nesters that are sitting on 4 bedroom homes but are unwilling to move. Are you going to propose legislation to make them?

Will you propose legislation to specially encourage more multi bedroom homes?

The attitude of "this doesn't benefit a narrow band of people that I want to benefit, therefore it must be stopped" is why California is in such a housing mess right now.

summerlight 6 hours ago|||
Unless we see unexpected side effects (like a lower number of housing or even more housing demands due to SB 79) I guess this will indirectly help the buyers looking for larger properties since so many people have no choice but purchasing a unnecessarily spacious house thanks to inflexible zoning.
eclipticplane 7 hours ago|||
> but if we end up with an abundance of just 1/2 bedroom rental apartments

That's still a massive win. To replace 10 single family homes supporting 2-3 people each with a 9 story building supporting many multiples of that is a win for society.

If the people chasing 3 and 4 bedroom apartments accepted smaller rooms, they could still be economical vs studio/1/2 BR apartments and condos.

terribleperson 6 hours ago||
An abundance of 1/2 bedroom rental apartments would reduce the price of larger places, because there would be lower demand.
standardUser 8 hours ago||
https://archive.is/a5Mwi
wewewedxfgdf 4 hours ago||
All so the new housing can be sold to investors and foreign buyers.
Schnitz 6 hours ago||
This bill is going to result in massive redistribution of wealth from the bottom to the top 0.1%. It’ll blow up middle class SFH neighborhoods where people own their homes and replace them with forever rentals owned by developers that’ll jack up rents every year. You will own nothing and be happy. Now get in line to be milked by the system!
lalaland1125 6 hours ago||
What middle class SFHs? There are no middle class SFH neighborhoods remaining in Los Angeles or the Bay Area. Take a look at Zillow. Your average young person isn't buying anything anyways.

Your information is at least two decades, maybe three, out of date.

But this bill will help lower rents, which is a very worthy goal in and of itself.

epistasis 6 hours ago|||
Those SFH are already rentals, from small landlords that bought a second, then a third, then a fourth home.

The ship has already sailed on the redistribution, because 1) California created an artificial housing shortage from regulatory capture by home owners, and 2) condo defect law differs so much from SFH defect law that it's almost always insane to sell condos instead of renting apartments.

This is not the doing of SB 79, this was Boomers deciding to milk future generations and prevent them from having the same easy opportunity that they enjoyed.

ezfe 6 hours ago||
lol we already own nothing suck it
ec109685 6 hours ago||
In addition to condos next to transit, California should be fixing roads, so people can move further from their job.

I know it’s unpopular nimby opinion but hoping people in these homes won’t be driving cars is misguided. Give them parking, fix roads for further commute and let people live where they want.

Save money by reducing regulations on elevator size, allow for single egress buildings and ensure we aren’t kowtowing to labor too much.

Future Waymo like technology makes driving your own car even less stressful and furthers the gap between public transit and cars.

“ California Senate Bill (SB) 79 reduces or eliminates parking minimums for new residential developments located near Transit-Oriented Development (TOD) stops”

stouset 6 hours ago||
More roads just does not scale. Look at LA. Look at San Francisco. More capacity isn’t just going to magically appear.

Waymo is only going to increase overall utilization by reducing the marginal cost of running a car. They aren’t magic traffic-solving devices, they are traffic-adding like DoorDash and Uber have been.

fooker 5 hours ago||
It doesn't matter what you think scales.

If you don't design infrastructure based on what people want, they are going to do it anyway. And things will be extremely chaotic.

No amount of fees, fines, etc will change that.

stouset 5 hours ago||
If you design infrastructure based on what you think people want instead of what actually produces good outcomes, you end up with gridlock.

Travel some time. Take a look at what’s happened in Paris over the last several years. See what’s happened in Utrecht and Amsterdam. These are far from the only examples.

1659447091 5 hours ago|||
> furthers the gap between public transit and cars.

It doesn't have to. If Waymo (and other autonomous taxis) were clever -- and maybe they are -- they would spend their lobbing money on high speed trains and then capture the "last mile" market.

Some years ago I was riding with a friend north on the 15 (San Diego, after a decade+ absences) and my noticeable wtf face prompted a "yeah, they built a freeway in the center of the freeway". It's an abomination. When I was there, I-15 was generally for the longer drives. My friends that lived in Temecula/North County etc would spend hours of their life driving (or slowly rolling) into SD for school/work/play.

A high speed train would have fit where they put the supplemental freeway. Now there is no more room to expand once they need more capacity; extra trains or cars could be added to a train to solve the same thing and placed along the freeway there is minimal to no neighborhood inconvenience. Then companies like waymo can take people to their final destination.

rconti 4 hours ago|||
People who pay a premium to live in a condo close to transit will almost certainly have vastly lower VMT than people who live in a SFH in a non-walkable area. Do they need more roads than the handful of houses that condo building replaced? Sure, so I can't disagree with you there. But they're all going to have massive underground garages, so a spot per unit on average is probably plenty.
mayneack 4 hours ago|||
People who want to live in less dense houses farther from the city can already do that!
baron816 5 hours ago||
Robotaxis are good, but everyone owning a driverless car is bad.

Imagine you get to your destination, there’s no parking (or no free parking), so you tell your car to just circle the block while you’re inside. You spend an hour there at the tanning salon, and the car has just been circling, using the street as a parking lot and creating congestion. What happens when everyone does that?

I’m a big proponent of driverless cars, but we will need laws that ban individual private ownership. We’re going to have to experience the tragedy of the commons first because people really won’t want to give up their cars.

aianus 3 hours ago||
This is only a problem if the energy to drive around for an hour is cheaper than the cost to park for an hour, which it isn't.
sokoloff 1 hour ago||
I paid $40 to park for 3 hours in Boston yesterday. I could drive around the city at an average speed of 10-15 miles per hour for under $3 in gas per hour.
TinkersW 7 hours ago|
Nine stories anywhere in the state near a bus stop seems abit much, most small towns don't have anything over 2 or 3 stories(nor do they have a housing shortage).

CA lawmakers seem to pass laws focused on cities, and ignore the fact that maybe this isn't such a good idea in smaller towns & rural areas.

nilsbunger 7 hours ago||
I don't think we're going to see much of that:

* The projects won't be profitable in smaller towns, because rents aren't high enough to recoup the cost.

* Tall buildings cost MORE per square foot than short buildings, so tall buildings only get built where land costs are very high.

* This law's top density (7-8 floors I think?) only applies in a narrow window (0.25 to 0.5 miles) around major transit stops with LOTS of service, like < 15 minute bus intervals with dedicated BRT lanes, or trains with > 48 arrivals per day each way. Small towns don't have that kind of infrastructure.

* The law only applies in cities with > 35,000 people.

cortesoft 7 hours ago|||
No one is going to build a 9 story building in a small town or rural area, it wouldn’t make any economic sense. Only places where land is valuable and scarce are economically viable for a 9 story building.
Rebelgecko 7 hours ago|||
9 stories buildings are only for areas with heavy rail.

It's a lower limit for bus stops, and my understanding is that bus stations only count if they have dedicated bus lanes, <15 minute headways, and meet some other requirements. I've never seen dedicated bus lanes in a rural area (which are basically exempt for the law for other reasons) and you're lucky if your headways are under an hour lol

nullc 7 hours ago|||
I don't believe it applies in any smaller towns or rural areas, the area has to cross some threshold.

If not for that the headline we might see in the news: California towns rip out transit systems. Already this might create some weird incentives to oppose transit expansions.

epistasis 6 hours ago||
You are spreading basic misinformation, please read the article so that you do not continue to do more of it.