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Posted by abhaynayar 7 hours ago

AI Coding(geohot.github.io)
228 points | 163 commentspage 2
ChrisMarshallNY 6 hours ago||
> AI makes you feel 20% more productive but in reality makes you 19% slower. How many more billions are we going to waste on this?

Adderall is similar. It makes people feel a lot more productive, but research on its effectiveness[0] seems to show that, at best, we get only a mild improvement in productivity, and marked deterioration of cognitive abilities.

[0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6165228/

joefourier 6 hours ago||
I’m someone with ADHD who takes prescribed stimulants and they don’t make me work faster or smarter, they just make me work. Without them I’ll languish in an unfocused haze for hours, or zone in on irrelevant details until I realise I have an hour left in the day to get anything done. It could make me 20% less intelligent and it would still be worth it; this is obviously an extreme, but given the choice, I’d rather be an average developer that gets boring, functional code done on time than a dysfunctional genius who keeps missing deadlines and cannot be motivated to work on anything but the most exciting shiny new tech.
ChrisMarshallNY 6 hours ago||
I have family that had ADHD, as a kid (they called it “hyperactivity,” back then). He is also dyslexic.

The ADHD was caught early, and treated, but the dyslexia was not. He thought he was a moron, for much of his early life, and his peers and employers did nothing to discourage that self-diagnosis.

Since he learned of his dyslexia, and started treating it, he has been an engineer at Intel, for most of his career (not that I envy him, right now).

hereme888 5 hours ago|||
You have to realize that ADD meds are meant only for people with ADD, not healthy people at the prime of their life. Excess neurochemicals can have the opposite effect.

Their benefits when used as intended are solidly documented in research literature.

diarrhea 6 hours ago|||
Note that the study is just n=13 and on subjects without ADHD.
ChrisMarshallNY 6 hours ago|||
That’s the deal.

People without ADHD take it, believing that it makes them “super[wo]men.”

bdcravens 6 hours ago||
I had a problem client that I ended up firing and giving money back to about 15 years ago. Lot of red flags, but the breaking point was when they offered me adderall so I could "work faster".

That said, I'll leave the conclusions about whether it's valuable for those with ADHD to the mental health professionals.

gobdovan 6 hours ago|||
Thanks again, diarrhea
luckylion 6 hours ago||
Research on _13_ people, that's a very important caveat when evaluating something like adderal.
ChrisMarshallNY 6 hours ago|||
I’m quite sure that there’s a ton more research on it. The drug’s been around for decades. Lots of time for plenty of studies.

If legitimate research had found it to be drastically better, that study would definitely have been published in a big way.

Unscientifically, I personally know quite a number of folks that sincerely believed that they couldn’t function without it, but have since learned that they do far better on their own. I haven’t met a single one that actually had their productivity decline (after an adjustment period, of course), after giving up Adderall. In fact, I know several, that have had their careers really take off, after giving it up.

luckylion 5 hours ago||
My point is that micro-studies like that on a tiny random (or even counter-indicated, "healthy") selection of the general population don't tell you much for drugs that do specific things.

"Antibiotics don't improve your life, but can damage your health" would likely be the outcome on 13 randomly selected healthy individuals. But do the same study on 13 people with a bacterial infection susceptible to antibiotics and your results will be vastly different.

ChrisMarshallNY 5 hours ago||
I don't think that it matters, in this context, as a lot of folks here, have their minds made up, already, and won't let anything interfere.

They'll need to learn, the same way I see lots of people learn.

It's been around long enough, though, that all the Adderall-eating people should have established a Gattaca-like "elite," with all us "undermen," scrabbling around at their feet.

Not sure why that never happened...

Eikon 6 hours ago|||
It’s interesting how science can become closer to pseudoscience than proper research through paper-milling.

It seems like that with such small groups and effects you could run the same “study” again and again until you get the result that you initially desired.

ChrisMarshallNY 6 hours ago||
So it should be easy to find studies that prove that non-ADHD people that take it, have dramatically improved productivity.
raincole 6 hours ago||
It's very easy to find studies that prove that Adderall (etc.) improve non-ADHD people's cognition ability. And it's equally easy to find studies that prove otherwise. The parent comment is very spot on. You can find evidence supporting anything nowadays.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3489818/table/tbl1/

lukaslalinsky 5 hours ago||
AI coding is the one thing that got my back to programming. I got to the point in life, when my ability to focus is reducing, and I prefer to send the remaining energy elsewhere. I kind of gave up on programming, just doing architecture and occasionally doing very small programming tasks. It all changed when I discovered Claude Code and saw that the way it works, is kind of how I work. I also use a lot of grep to find my way through a new codebase, I also debug stuff by adding logs to see the context, I also rely on automated tests to tell me something is broken. I'm still very good at reading code, I'm good at architecture, and with these tools, I feel I can safely delegate the boring bits of writing code and debugging trivial things to AI. Yes, it's slower than if I focused on the task myself, but the point is that I'd not be able to focus on the task myself.
stevex 3 hours ago|
I feel the same way. After 30+ years coding, I know what I want to build, but finding the time to work on it and the focus is harder than it used to be.
runningmike 5 hours ago||
Great short read. But this “ It’s why the world wasted $10B+ on self driving car companies that obviously made no sense.”

Not everything should make sense. Playing , trying and failing is crucial to make our world nicer. Not overthinking is key, see later what works and why.

stevex 3 hours ago||
"that obviously made no sense" is bizarre.

Waymo's driving people around with an injuries-per-mile rate that's lower than having humans do it. I don't see how that reconciles with "obviously made no sense".

skydhash 4 hours ago||
> Playing , trying and failing is crucial to make our world nicer. Not overthinking is key, see later what works and why.

It would be, if there weren't actual important works that needs funding.

piker 5 hours ago||
Pretty much nailed it. Once you’re at about 40k LOC you can just turn off the autocomplete features and use Claude or GPT to evaluate specific high-level issues. My sense is 40k LOC is the point at which the suggestions are offset by the rabbit holes they sometimes send you down, but, more importantly by obscuring from you the complexity of the thing you’re building—temporarily.
ako 5 hours ago|
I expect much of this can be solved with better architecture: smaller, more independent components. Break large code bases up into independent libraries, and LLMs can work again because they need much less code in their context.
piker 3 hours ago||
Suggesting I restructure my code base to work better with a non-deterministic black box feels like an instance of Conway’s law[1] that should be avoided.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law

ako 2 hours ago||
You’re free to avoid it but maybe your competition will do it and may outpace you because of it. Conways law just states that architecture follows organizational structure so it’s only to be expected that ai generated software has an ai influenced architecture.
piker 1 hour ago||
Yes, I think that’s the other position. But my bet is that significant software projects built today on today’s LLMs will be outpaced by teams in the future who avoided delegating that complexity to them. It’s a bet, but perhaps it’s wrong.
viraptor 6 hours ago||
There's a lot of complaining about current compilers / languages / codebase in similar posts, but barely any ideas for how to make them better. It doesn't seem surprising that people go for the easier problem (make the current process simpler with LLMs) than for the harder one (change the whole programming landscape to something new and actually make it better).
blinkingled 5 hours ago||
I have been working on finding out ways to make use of AI a net-positive in my professional life as opposed to yet another thing I have to work around and have cognitive load of. Some notes so far in getting great benefits out of it on couple projects -

* Getting good results from AI forced me to think through and think clearly - up front and even harder.

* AI almost forces me to structure and break down my thoughts into smaller more manageable chunks - which is a good thing. (You can't just throw a giant project at it - it gets really far off from what you want if you do that.)

* I have to make it a habit of reading what code it has added - so I understand it and point to it some improvements or rarely fixes (Claude)

* Everyone has what they think are uninteresting parts of a project that they have to put effort into to see the bigger project succeed - AI really helps with those mundane, cog in the wheel things - it not only speeds things up, personally it gives me more momentum/energy to work on the parts that I think are important.

* It's really bad at reusability - most humans will automatically know oh I have a function I wrote to do this thing in this project which I can use in that project. At some point they will turn that into a library. With AI that amount of context is a problem. I found that filling in for AI for this is just as much work and I best do that myself upfront before feeding it to AI - then I have a hope of getting it to understand the dependency structure and what does what.

* Domain specific knowledge - I deal with Google Cloud a lot and use Gemini for understanding what features exist in some GCP product and how I can use it to solve a problem - works amazingly well to save me time. At the least optioning the solution is a big part of work it makes easier.

* Your Git habits have to be top notch so you can untangle any mess AI creates - you reach a point where you have iterated over a feature addition using AI and it's a mess and you know it went off the rails after some point. If you just made one or two commits now you have to unwind everything and hope the good parts return or try to get AI to deal with it which can be risky.

saejox 6 hours ago||
> AI makes you feel 20% more productive but in reality makes you 19% slower. How many more billions are we going to waste on this?

True in the long run. Like a car with a high acceleration but low top speed.

AI makes you start fast, but regret later because you don't have the top speed.

net01 6 hours ago||
This is shown in figure 5 of the paper. https://arxiv.org/pdf/2507.09089
isaacremuant 6 hours ago||
People repeating articles or papers. I know myself. I know from my own experiences what the good and bad of practice A or database B is. I don't need to read a conclusion by some Muppet.

Chill. Interesting times. Learn stuff, like always. Iterate. Be mindful and intentional and don't just chase mirrors but be practical.

The rest is fluff. You know yourself.

roxolotl 4 hours ago||
The takeaway from the paper is you don’t know yourself. It’s one paper, and a small sample size, but attempting to refute its conclusion by stating it’s false doesn’t really get us anywhere.
roflcopter69 2 hours ago||
> Or we could, you know, do the hard work and build better programming languages, compilers, and libraries. But that can’t be hyped up for billions.

100% this. I fear that AI will cause us to be stuck in a local optimum for the next decades where most of the code will be Python or JS because these are the languages best supported by LLMs. Don't get me wrong, Python and JS and mature and productive languages. That's fine. But we could have it so much better if there was more effort put into a next generation of tools that take all the harsh lessons learnt from the tools before and "just" do it better. I acknowledge that we get incremental improvements here and there but some things are just unfixable without breaking existing ecosystems.

joefourier 6 hours ago|
Vibe coding large projects isn’t feasible yet, but as a developer here’s how I use AI to great effect, to the point where losing the tool greatly decreases my productivity:

- Autocomplete in Cursor. People think of AI agents first when they talk about AI coding but LLM-powered autocomplete is a huge productivity boost. It merges seamlessly with your existing workflow, prompting is just writings comments, it can edit multiple lines at once or redirect you to the appropriate part of the codebase, and if the output isn’t what you need you don’t waste much time because you can just choose to ignore it and write code as you usually do.

- Generating coding examples from documentation. Hallucination is basically a non-problem with Gemini Pro 2.5 especially if you give it the right context. This gets me up to speed on a new library or framework very quickly. Basically a stack overflow replacement.

- Debugging. Not always guaranteed to work, but when I’m stuck at a problem for too long, it can provide a solution, or give me a fresh new perspective.

- Self contained scripts. It’s ideal for this, like making package installers, cmake configurations, data processing, serverless micro services, etc.

- Understanding and brainstorming new solutions.

- Vibe coding parts of the codebase that don’t need deep integration. E.g. create a web component with X and Y feature, a C++ function that does a well defined purpose, or a simple file browser. I do wonder if a functional programming paradigm would be better when working with LLMs since by avoiding side effects you can work around their weaknesses when it comes to large codebases.

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