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Posted by DaveZale 12 hours ago

Myocardial infarction may be an infectious disease(www.tuni.fi)
Paper: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.125.041521
412 points | 135 commentspage 2
A_D_E_P_T 11 hours ago|
This raises two questions.

- Does this suggest that courses of antibiotics might reduce heart attack risk?

- Does this suggest that regular use of, e.g., Listerine might reduce heart attack risk? (While, perhaps, slightly increasing esophageal cancer risk.)

It would be interesting to run an epidemiological study to see if current interventions move the needle in a meaningful way.

prmph 10 hours ago||
Listerine would make it worse for sure.

Don't use "antiseptic" mouthwash; it kills beneficial bacteria in the mouth, causing bad bacteria to multiply.

I have personal experience of this.

dionian 10 hours ago||
agreed, after much research the only mouth wash i use is therasol
ygouzerh 10 hours ago|||
For the Listerine part: they are referencing this study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16373688/ that seems to show a correlation between poor oral health and sudden cardiac death, so it might help indeed, with other good oral health practices.
DaveZale 9 hours ago||
I only use very dilute Listerine - for the fluoride. A dentist told me that undiluted, alcohol based products can cause tissue damage (which conceivably would result in a vector for oral bacteria infiltrating to the bloodstream?)
inferiorhuman 8 hours ago||
Most Listerine products do not contain fluoride. Additionally, there are a variety of readily available alcohol-free mouthwashes that have fluoride.
gertop 7 hours ago||
Alcohol-free mouthwash is even more likely to cause tissue damage because they almost all contain SLS. Some people are more sensitive to it than others (causing the mucosa to peel) but it causes mild damage to everybody.
steadicat 6 hours ago||
Almost all? I just checked and Act, Crest, CloSYS and many others are all SLS-free and alcohol-free. The only one with SLS I could find is Listerine Cool Mint.

Maybe you’re thinking toothpastes? SLS in toothpaste is indeed hard to avoid.

syntaxing 10 hours ago|||
I probably should find sources first but I was always under the impression that the mouth biome is strongly correlated to gut biome which strongly correlated to immune system.
tim333 10 hours ago|||
Yes, there are studies where they compared heart attack rates for people who'd taken a course of antibiotics with those who hadn't and there was quite a large effect in some of them.

eg. https://www.science.org/content/article/antibiotics-cut-hear...

dreamcompiler 9 hours ago||
TFA says the biofilms protect the bacteria from antibiotics. Better approach is probably engineered antibodies or even a phage (engineered virus that attacks the bacteria).
_heimdall 7 hours ago||
Titles like this are very confusing. The paper better explains it, but a disease can't be contagious or infectious. The paper describes a link between a potential bacterial infection and myocardial infarctions that may take years or decades to develop.

The disease is only the named group of symptoms. The potential cause of the disease is the bacterial infection. Those are very different concepts.

liveoneggs 7 hours ago||
There are already pretty serious blood disorders linked directly to oral health (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actinomycosis almost took down slackware linux)

I think I'll go floss.

DaveZale 6 hours ago|
yeah and dehydration is not good, saliva flow is protective
dogmatism 7 hours ago||
The bacterial contribution to MACE has been an ongoing subject of investigation for decades

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa043526

still hasn't really panned out

op00to 11 hours ago||
This seems like a good explanation of how my father died. He had the flu, and died overnight from a massive heart attack.
awesome_dude 11 hours ago||
https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/what-does-the-fl...

How does flu affect the heart? The virus only rarely infects the heart directly. Instead, the adverse effects of the virus on the heart are due to atherosclerosis of the arteries of the heart. Many people over age 50 have atherosclerosis — and in some people it has not yet been diagnosed. Because atherosclerosis narrows the arteries and reduces the flow of blood, less oxygen reaches the heart muscle. When the effect of the flu on the lungs lowers the amount of oxygen in the blood, this further reduces the supply of oxygen to the heart. This can lead to a heart attack or cardiac arrest (sudden death).

Is this risk more than theoretical? Many careful studies have shown there is an increased risk of heart disease following a bout of flu. In one study of 80,000 adults with influenza, nearly 12% had a serious cardiac event, such as a heart attack, during or in the weeks after getting the flu.

weird-eye-issue 8 hours ago|||
> In one study of 80,000 adults with influenza, nearly 12% had a serious cardiac event, such as a heart attack, during or in the weeks after getting the flu.

That sounds really high

Okay I just looked it up and this was only among hospitalized individuals which makes a lot more sense because most people just stay home unless it's very bad but that is still surprising to me

op00to 10 hours ago||||
For sure it exacerbated an existing cardiovascular system. Once the system is weakened things cause big problems quickly.
y1n0 10 hours ago||||
In the context of the article, it's inflammation rupturing the 'fibrous cap' on plaque deposits leading to a heart attack, so I presume OP is talking about the inflammatory response to having the flu.
smt88 10 hours ago|||
> How does flu affect the heart?

Even temporary stress on the respiratory system can cause long-term damage to the brain, lungs, and heart. Because of Covid, we started to learn that an acute, severe infection can affect people much later.

That research led to the beginning of an understanding that repeated flu infections can contribute to premature death even many decades later.

DaveZale 11 hours ago||
sure does. chain of events. The epidemiologists should be able to validate these claims.
faangguyindia 9 hours ago||
Wasn't that a plot in DBZ where a virus weakens Goku's heart?
jondwillis 7 hours ago|
https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Heart_Virus Indeed!
neehao 11 hours ago||
see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17420199/
scloudfox 3 hours ago||
Great concept..
banthegays 9 hours ago|
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