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Posted by xeonmc 2 days ago

This World of Ours (2014) [pdf](www.usenix.org)
243 points | 189 comments
eirini1 1 day ago|
Never agreed with this logic. For a lot of people (anyone that does political activism of some sort for example) the threat model can be a lot more nuanced. It might not be Mossad or the CIA gunning for you, specifically, but it might police searching you and your friend's laptops or phones. It might be burglars targetting the office of the small organization you have and the small servers you have running there.
some_random 1 day ago||
Yeah it's extremely immature, even within police agencies there's a huge variation on their ability to perform digital forensics. Furthermore, just because the feds don't like you for whatever reason doesn't mean they're going to deploy their top-of-the-line exploits against you, or detain and torture you, or whatever magic voodoo bullshit the author thinks the Mossad can do.
rini17 1 day ago|||
You did not write what you actually disagree with....
coldtea 1 day ago|||
the maximalist false dillema of "all or nothing": either it's a super-poweful super-human agency and you can't do anything, else any half-measure is fine
turboturbo 1 day ago|||
The false dichotomy
rini17 1 day ago||
The dichotomy between what average people(including political activists) can actually handle and stuff proposed by security researchers is real.
anonym29 1 day ago||
The idea that average people can't handle incremental improvements like a password manager, MFA, full disk encryption, etc is unhealthy infantilization of people who are entirely capable of understanding the concepts, the benefits, the risks they address, and appreciating the benefits of them.

Most people just don't care enough until after they're hacked, at which point they care just enough to wish they'd done something more previously, which is just shy of enough to start doing something differently going forward.

It's not that normies are too stupid figure this out, it's that they make risk accept decisions on risks they don't thoroughly understand or care enough about to want to understand. My personal observation is that the concept of even thinking about potential future technology risks at all (let alone considering changing behavior to mitigate those risks) seems to represent an almost an almost pathological level of proactive preparation to normies, the same way that preppers building bunkers with years of food and water storage look to the rest of us.

rini17 1 day ago||
I do understand the concepts and exactly because of that I doubt I myself would be able of airtight opsec against any determined adversary, not even state-level one. I think it's humility, you think I infantilize myself lol.

I do use password manager and disk encryption, just for case of theft. Still feels like one stupid sleepy misclick away from losing stuff and no amount of MFAs or whatever is going to save me, they actually feel like added complexity which leads to mistakes.

YesThatTom2 1 day ago|||
I'm pretty sure his point was that security labels are a dead end.

(Have you ever attended an academic security conference like Usenix Security?)

shermantanktop 1 day ago|||
The third mode is enabled by scale of data and compute. If enough data from enough sources is processed by enough compute, Mossad does not need to have a prior interest in you in order for you to fit a profile that they are interested in.

Anyone else see all the drones flying over a peaceful No Kings assembly?

bell-cot 1 day ago||
Yep. While there might be some use cases for his ultra-simplistic "Mossad/not-Mossad duality" - say, convincing Bob Jones that "b0bj0nes" is not a great password - it's 99% fairy tale.

And even if the CIA/Mossad/NSA/whoever is "interested" in you - this is the era of mass surveillance. The chances that you're worth a Stuxnet level of effort is 0.000000001%. Vs. 99.999% chance that they'll happily hoover up your data, if you make it pretty easy for their automated systems to do that.

tonnydourado 1 day ago|||
Also worth noting that Mossad/CIA/etc. are not monoliths. Maybe you got a top agent assigned to you, but maybe your file is on the desk of the Mossad's version of Hitchcock and Scully from Brooklyn 99.
zahlman 1 day ago|||
> Yep. While there might be some use cases for his ultra-simplistic "Mossad/not-Mossad duality" - say, convincing Bob Jones that "b0bj0nes" is not a great password - it's 99% fairy tale.

Honestly, the oversimplification here reads to me more like something Bob Jones could use to justify not caring about "b0bj0nes" not being a great password.

bell-cot 1 day ago||
I was thinking, "Bob, stop making excuses about how it's hopeless, and you'd need a 'U0hBNTEyICgvdmFyL2xvZy9tZXNzYWdlcykgPSBjNGU2NGM1MmI5MDhiYWU3MDU5NzdlMzUzZDlk'-level password to be safe. That 'b0bj0nes' is so easy that a bored kid might get it in a few dozen guesses, and you need to change it to something better."
wpollock 1 day ago||
That password should include symbols too! Without symbols, each character is one of 62 values (sticking to ASCII letters and digits). Including symbols makes it much harder to guess passwords of a given length. Even better would be Unicode letters, digits, and symbols, even if you stick to the Basic Multilingual Plane.

Best would be non-text, binary strings. Since I already use a password manager, I don't really need to type passwords by hand. But I do understand most people prefer text passwords that could be entered by hand if necessary.

bell-cot 1 day ago||
Except that's exactly what the Mossad will be expecting us to use, for our uber-secure password! By eschewing symbols and binary, we are actually meta-out-smarting their ultimate giga-quantum nuclear crypto cracker.

Or: This is Bob "Dim Bulb" Jones we're talking to. KISS, and maybe we can convince him to upgrade his password to "iwantacoldbeernow".

jasomill 1 day ago||
“iwantacoldbeernow”

Sorry, your password does not meet complexity requirements because it does not contain at least one of each of the following: uppercase letters, lowercase letters, numeric digits, nonalphanumeric symbols.

“I want 1 cold beer now.”

Sorry, your password may not contain spaces.

“Iwant1coldbeernow.”

Sorry, your password is too long.

“Iwant1beernow.”

Sorry, your password is too long.

“1Beer?”

Sorry, your password is too short.

“Password1!”

Thank you. Your password has been changed.

kragen 1 day ago||
Both Assange and Snowden are apparently alive and well, despite Mossad-like agencies wishing otherwise, largely thanks to Tor; and Hamas, whose adversary was in fact the Mossad, apparently still exists. Hizbullah has hopefully taught us all a good lesson about supply-chain attacks.

Debian is probably the only example of a successful public public-key infrastructure, but SSH keys are a perfectly serviceable form of public-key infrastructure in everyday life. At least for developers.

Mickens's skepticism about security labels is, however, justified; the problems he identifies are why object-capability models seem more successful in practice.

I do agree that better passwords are a good idea, and, prior to the widespread deployment of malicious microphones, were adequate authentication for many purposes—if you can avoid being phished. My own secure password generator is http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/netbook-misc-devel/bitwords...., and some of its modes are memorable correct-horse-battery-staple-type passwords. It's arguably slightly blasphemous, so you may be offended if you are an observant Hindu.

uvaursi 1 day ago||
Neither Assange nor Snowden are a threat anymore. They are contained and have next to no ability anymore. So it would be a waste of resources to pursue them. The lackeys (police etc) are all that’s needed here to harass them and make their lives miserable. What’s Mossad going to do? Kill them with explosives? That takes all the fun out of torturing them and making their lives miserable by proxy.

The only thing I see is that both are contained and quarantined. The threat of both has been neutralized to the degree where I think the espionage agencies of all these countries are playing along together to keep the engine of their craft going uninterrupted without fuss.

In other words, you have to be gullible to think an embassy cares about protecting Assange. It’s a phone call from the secret service director saying “Keep him there for now, it’s where we want him.”

prometheus76 1 day ago|||
> prior to the widespread deployment of malicious microphones, were adequate authentication for many purposes

Can you elaborate on this? I don't understand the context for malicious microphones and how that affects secure passwords.

kragen 1 day ago||
Oh, well, it turns out that keyboard sounds leak enough entropy to make it easy to attack even very strong passwords.

Microphones on devices such as Ring doorbell cameras are explicitly exfiltrating audio data out of your control whenever they're activated. Features like Alexa and Siri require, in some sense, 24/7 microphone activation, although normally that data isn't transmitted off-device except on explicit (vocal) user request. But that control is imposed by non-user-auditable device firmware that can be remotely updated at any time.

Finally, for a variety of reasons, it's becoming increasingly common to have a microphone active and transmitting data intentionally, often to public contexts like livestreaming video.

With the proliferation of such potentially vulnerable microphones in our daily lives, we should not rely too heavily on the secrecy of short strings that can easily leak through the audio channel.

antonvs 1 day ago||
Using a password manager is an easy and useful protection against audio leaks of passwords.

But this is an example of the kind of thing the OP is talking about. You're probably not at a very realistic risk of having your password hacked via audio exfiltrated from the Ring camera at your front door. Unless it's Mossad et al who want your password.

kragen 1 day ago||
Like "you're probably not at a very realistic risk of having your phone wiretapped", this is overindexing on past experience—remember that until Room 641A commenced operations in 02003 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A), you weren't, and after it did, your phone was virtually guaranteed to be wiretapped. Similarly, you aren't at a very realistic risk of having your password hacked via audio, until someone is doing this to 80% of the people in the world. As far as we know, this hasn't happened yet, but it certainly will.
antonvs 1 day ago||
But again, that’s the Mossad scenario - NSA in this case. You’re essentially reinforcing the OP point. There are three threat models given in Figure 1 of the OP doc, and what you’re saying really only applies to the third.
kragen 1 day ago||
No, their Mossad threat model is that the Mossad wants to kill particular people, not steal the passwords of literally every single person on Earth.
sigwinch 1 day ago|||
Why did you choose random’s SystemRandom rather than secrets?
kragen 1 day ago||
What?

Oh, you mean PEP 506. I wrote this program in 02012, and PEP 506 wasn't written until 02015, didn't ship in a released Python until 3.6 in 02016, and even then was only available in Python 3, which I didn't use because it basically didn't work at the time.

PEP 506 is just 22 lines of code wrapping SystemRandom. There's no advantage over just using SystemRandom directly.

_zoltan_ 1 day ago||
what is 02012 and why write it so strange?
ahoka 1 day ago|||
Obviously it's octal and the person is a time traveler from the 11th century.
dredmorbius 1 day ago||||
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45505856>

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43463920>

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39175614>

namibj 1 day ago||||
They want to feel like they matter in over 10k years from now, where a 4-digit year would start to wrap.
zahlman 1 day ago||
In fact that will be not even 8k years from now.
sigwinch 1 day ago||
I’ll be very embarrassed when I’m still writing 9999 on my checks.
will4274 1 day ago|||
It's the long now foundation thing. The long now foundation encourages writing years with five digits to encourage readers to think about long term planning, to plan for a future of humanity that is measured in more than thousands of years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Now_Foundation

psunavy03 1 day ago|||
The idea that either of them are at risk of being whacked is utter tinfoil-hattery. The worst Snowden has to fear is being convicted and jailed, and it says a lot about him that he fled to Russia of all places instead of manning up and facing trial.
willmarch 1 day ago|||
Snowden didn’t choose Russia as a destination. He left Hong Kong for Latin America and got stranded in Moscow when the U.S. revoked his passport mid-transit. He spent weeks in the airport transit zone while seeking asylum from multiple countries; Russia gave him temporary asylum after that.

“Manning up and facing trial” sounds fair in theory, but under the Espionage Act there’s no public-interest defense. He’d be barred from explaining motive or the public value of the disclosures, much of the case would be classified, and past national-security whistleblowers have faced severe penalties. That’s why he sought asylum.

alwa 1 day ago||||
Being convicted and jailed can be pretty bad. Didn’t Robert Hanssen end up in Florence ADMAX until he died [0]? And, maybe a more direct comparison, Wikileaker Joshua Schulte [1]?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Schulte

BLKNSLVR 1 day ago|||
It was the US that forced Snowden into Russia.
eykanal 1 day ago||
> ...Assange and Snowden...

I'd argue that for every Assange and Snowden, there are 100 (1k? 100k?) people using Tor for illegal, immoral, and otherwise terrible things. If you're OK with that, then sure, fine point.

> SSH keys

Heartbleed and Terrapin were both pretty brutal attacks on common PKI infra. It's definitely serviceable and very good, but vulnerabilities can go for forever without being noticed, and when they are found they're devastating.

kragen 1 day ago|||
Mickens was arguing that security was illusory, not, as you are, that it was subversive and immoral. My comments were directed at his point. I am not interested in your idea that it would be better for nobody to have any privacy.
eykanal 1 day ago||
> ...who non-ironically believes that Tor is used for things besides drug deals and kidnapping plots.

That was the quote I was referring to. Also, of course I didn't say that no one should have any privacy; I simply implied a high moral cost for this particular form of privacy.

atomic128 1 day ago||
Continuously updated HTTP response dumps from all the major Tor hidden services: https://rnsaffn.com/zg4/

It is accurate to say that Tor's hidden service ecosystem is focused on drugs, ransomware, cryptocurrency, and sex crime.

However, there are other important things happening there. You can think of the crime as cover traffic to hide those important things. So it's all good.

JohnBooty 1 day ago||
Definitely some heinous-sounding stuff.

The third result was "FREE $FOO PORN" where $FOO was something that nearly the entire human race recognizes as deeply Not Okay and is illegal everywhere.

I wonder what % of the heinous-sounding sites are actually providing the things they say they are.

I'm sure that some (most?) of them actually offer heinous stuff. But surely some of them are honeypots run by law enforcement and some are just straight up scams. However, I have no sense of whether that percentage is 1% or 99%.

yapyap 1 day ago|||
If you truly have a secure tool you won’t be able to control what your users do with it.
jones89176 1 day ago||
I enjoyed "The Night Watch" a lot:

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/mickens/files/thenightwatc...

> A systems programmer will know what to do when society breaks down, because the systems programmer already lives in a world without law.

broodbucket 1 day ago||
Remember, you don't have to be unhackable, just sufficiently unimportant to not be worth burning any novel capability on
itsnowandnever 1 day ago||
I think people don't understand what this means either. the nation-state "agencies" that can and will get into your network/devices can do so because they would employ tactics like kidnapping and blackmailing a local telco field technician. or if it's your own government, they can show up with some police and tell them to do whatever and most will comply without even receiving a proper court order.

so unless you're worth all that trouble, you're really just trying to avoid being "low hanging fruit" compromised by some batch script probing known (and usually very old) vulnerabilities

red-iron-pine 1 day ago||
plenty of big telcos push back to gub'mnt orders. they usually get a warrant.

or they just pay the $2100 per API call to download it from the telco or social media company.

it's not improper if you agreed to give a company the ability to sell your data to anyone -- the government is anyone, and they have the money.

shiandow 1 day ago|||
Given that choice I'd rather choose to be unhackable.
andai 1 day ago|||
So the advice would be for an activist to choose extremely boring forms of activism? ;)
broodbucket 1 day ago||
If you're at that level where some powerful entity really takes an interest in you, you just have to operate as if you're always compromised, I think.
lisbbb 1 day ago|||
I like the "gray man" concept, but can't predict when you end up on the radar or why. As a young graduate student, I once wrote an article that rebuffed the government's "Total Information Awareness" trial balloon and suddenly found myself embroiled in much unexpected controversy, including some big name journalists e-mailing me and asking questions. You just never know when you stumble into something that you're not supposed to know about and what might happen.
aa-jv 1 day ago|||
I think the more important maxim to follow is this: if you didn't manufacture your own sillicon, you are infinitely more hackable than if you did.

Alas, no matter how hard we try to trust our compilers, we must also adopt methods to trust our foundries.

Oh, we don't have our own foundries?

Yeah, thats the real problem. Who owns the foundries?

smithkl42 1 day ago|||
Nah, if I manufactured my own silicon, I'd be infinitely more hackable than I am right now - just like if I wrote my own crypto code. 99.9999% of people are going to be more secure if they just rely on publicly accessible cryptography (and silicon). Otherwise you're just going to be making stupid mistakes that real cryptographers and security folks found and wrote defenses against three decades ago.
MomsAVoxell 1 day ago||
If you could make your own silicon, you could create a guild or a federation to audit it, and then your trust circle would be smaller and therefore safer.

>Otherwise you're just going to be making stupid mistakes that real cryptographers and security folks found and wrote defenses against three decades ago.

Yeah, thats the point, learn those same techniques, get it in the guild, and watch each others backs.

Rather than just 'trusting' some faceless war profiteers from the midst of an out of control military-industrial complex.

pydry 1 day ago|||
When has anybody ever been hacked via a foundry?

While having your own foundry is undoubtedly a good thing from the perspective of supply chain resiliency, if hacking is what you're worried about there are probably easier ways to mitigate (e.g. a bit more rigor in QC).

kragen 1 day ago|||
Roughly everybody you've ever met, 100% of the time.

There's a reason the NSA can get Intel CPUs without IME and you can't. Given the incentives and competence of the people involved, it's probably an intentional vulnerability that you can't escape because you don't fab your own chips. There's strong circumstantial evidence that Huawei got banned from selling their products in the US for doing the same thing. And the Crypto AG backdoor (in hardware but probably not in silicon) was probably central to a lot of 20th-century international relations, though that wasn't publicly known until much later.

And this is before we get into penny-ante malicious hardware like laser printer toner cartridges, carrier-locked cellphones, and HDMI copy protection.

No amount of QC is going to remove malicious hardware; at best, it can tell you it's there.

pydry 12 hours ago||
I can. Purism and system76 disable the IME.

This is also a completely different threat model but whatever.

kragen 12 hours ago||
I think they're using me_cleaner, which does appear to work, but using software to disable a hardware backdoor is inherently unreliable.
purplehat_ 1 day ago||||
Not exactly what you're asking, but multiple CVEs have been found in Intel's Management Engine (ME) which have been used in spyware.

It might not be an intentional backdoor, but it very much seems designed with out-of-band access in mind, with the AMT remote management features and the fact that the network controller has DMA (this enables packet interception).

IAmBroom 1 day ago||||
"When" is what we will likely never know, given the subterranean depth of trust and visibility there. Probably never...
aa-jv 1 day ago|||
Do you know what "your" CPU is doing? Do you really?
lisbbb 1 day ago||
I always figured the spy crap was programmed right in to the chips themselves and the BIOS.
INTPenis 1 day ago||
That's right, just keep your head down, smile and nod, do your job and nothing will ever go wrong. /s
brigandish 1 day ago|||
A more charitable view would be to act like a zebra in a herd of zebra rather than a zebra in a herd of horses.
IAmBroom 1 day ago||
Charitable, but also privileged. Many people only have the option of looking like a cow in a cattle yard.
impossiblefork 1 day ago||||
I don't think that's the interpretation, but make your computer systems disconnected from what you do.

If relevant adversaries don't know which computer to burn the exploit on, then they won't burn it on the right one.

GreenWatermelon 1 day ago|||
You /s but this is actually valid advice for someone who just wants to get by in life and is content.
throwaway_dang 1 day ago|||
Do the bombs dropping in war zones avoid apolitical people? If not, when is the appropriate time to get sufficiently political to avoid having a bomb dropped on one's head?
GreenWatermelon 1 day ago|||
"Keeping your head down" means not doing anything that would cause a government (especially your own) to want to disappear you.

If you vocally oppose your tyrannical government, you won't avoid a bomb on your head. In the best case you'll get a bullet through your head. Worst case, you spend a lifetime in a prison.

adrianN 1 day ago|||
Very few individuals can influence whether or not bombs drop. The best way to avoid having bombs dropped on your head is moving to a place where fewer bombs are dropped.
jimnotgym 1 day ago||
But many people together, although none of them individually influencial enough, certainly can influence where bombs get dropped.

When you start successfully reaching many people you can be sure that security agencies will start watching you.

adrianN 1 day ago||
In areas where bombs are dropped there is generally a large majority in favor of stopping that, but they have little influence.
ragazzina 1 day ago||||
>someone who just wants to get by in life and is content

"It’s the reductionist approach to life: if you keep it small, you’ll keep it under control. If you don’t make any noise, the bogeyman won’t find you. But it’s all an illusion, because they die too, those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. Safe?! From what? Life is always on the edge of death; narrow streets lead to the same place as wide avenues, and a little candle burns itself out just like a flaming torch does."

lisbbb 1 day ago||
That's stupid. It's not all an illusion. The scale definitely matters. If you are buying stocks you can make a profit as a little guy that if the big guys tried to do it they would quickly become the "market maker" and the strategy would not scale up. It's the same with criminal activity or insurgency--small mosquitoes are ignored while the major threats get swatted hard.
INTPenis 1 day ago||||
True enough. I'm content as long as I don't hear the news anywhere. Recently had my dad over and he can't go 5 minutes without the news on in the background. Really hard to be content then.
energy123 1 day ago|||
Downvoted, but so much evil is caused by people due to their distorted yet sincerely believed moral virtues. Not due to an absence of morality but because of it. Whatever you have in your mind as the image of quintessential evil is probably caused by those people's sincerely held moral system, a moral system they believed in as strongly as you do yours. So people who just live their lives and do not grasp on external change are fine by me.
6510 21 hours ago|||
Unless you believe in the extinction of bad people the burden of restoring normality is for everyone else. Those who are not part of the solution are not part of the problem, they are the problem. You cant have the problem without them and you cant have them without having the problems.
GreenWatermelon 1 day ago|||
are you saying that you've downvoted me, or just pointing out that I've been downvoted? If the former, why?
ChrisMarshallNY 1 day ago||
I've always enjoyed Mikens' writing. He has a great sense of humor.

I like his using Mossad as the extreme. I guess "Mossad'd" is now a verb.

samlinnfer 1 day ago||
This will always be my favourite Mikens essay (The Slow Winter): https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1309_14-17_mickens.pdf
chao- 1 day ago||
Mine as well.

I have a fond memory of being at a party where someone had the idea to do dramatic readings of various Mickens Usenix papers. Even just doing partial readings, it was slow going, lots of pauses to recover from overwhelming laughter. When the reading of The Slow Winter got to "THE MAGMA PEOPLE ARE WAITING FOR OUR MISTAKES", we had to stop because someone had laughed so hard they threw up. Not in an awful way, but enough to give us a pause in the action, and to decide we couldn't go on.

Good times.

eeeficus 1 day ago|||
Sounds like you found nerd heaven. I couldn't imagine a situation like yours in my world! :)
purplehat_ 1 day ago|||
Bit of an aside, but I'm wondering in what city this was in.

I'm going to be job hunting soon and I was planning to prioritize the Bay Area because that's the only place I've encountered a decent density of people like this, but maybe I'm setting my sights too short.

chao- 1 day ago||
Houston, Texas.

There are nerds everywhere.

purplehat_ 1 day ago|||
If people want to read all six, here they are! https://mickens.seas.harvard.edu/wisdom-james-mickens

My favorite is The Night Watch.

isoprophlex 1 day ago||
> [...] it’s pretty clear that compilers are a thing of the past, and the next generation of processors will run English-level pseudocode directly.

hilarious AND scary levels of prescient writing...

tomhow 1 day ago||
Previously:

This World of Ours (2014) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27915173 - July 2021 (6 comments)

edu 1 day ago||
That's a fun take, similar to the classic XKCD 538: Security. https://xkcd.com/538/
hshdhdhehd 1 day ago||
The 4096 bits just stops it being so easy to surveil you that it is hyper-automated. So there is some use. The $5 wrench needs a million dollar operation to get that guy to your house.
ta1243 1 day ago|||
Depends how strong the protections of your civil society is, but it doesn't cost $1m to send a goon with a crowbar or shotgun. Sure that doesn't scale, but if you are a target you're screwed
hshdhdhehd 1 day ago||
The $1m is the stuff they did to the point where they knew where to send the goon.

If you are a target you are screwed. But clever crypto isn't useless.

sigwinch 1 day ago||
Probably used to average over $1m. Nowadays, those operations (polonium, novachuk, expending expensive KGB resources) send a signal. Otherwise, swatting your home while they drain your wallets; or threatening to swat; quite inexpensive.
bbarnett 1 day ago|||
Oh come on, that's way over budget! Every time I managed such an operation, we'd just rent a van and... uh, I mean, um, I heard it costs less.

<NO CARRIER>

hshdhdhehd 1 day ago||
Its a million dollars to the defense contractor who lobbies for more wrench attacks.
dominicrose 1 day ago||
this is why you need a fake password that provides access to fake content that looks like the real content
tuzemec 1 day ago||
Somewhat related video: https://vimeo.com/95066828
mike_hearn 1 day ago|
It's hilarious, but the hilarity gets in the way of recognizing how much insight there is also there. It makes serious points. This part about the Mossad is especially astonishing given the pager attack:

> If your adversary is the Mossad, YOU’RE GONNA DIE AND THERE’S NOTHING THAT YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. The Mossad is not intimidated by the fact that you employ https://. If the Mossad wants your data, they’re going to use a drone to replace your cellphone with a piece of uranium that’s shaped like a cellphone

It's like a Mossad agent read this paper and thought hey that's actually not a bad idea.

But the core rant is about dubious assumptions in academic cryptography papers. I was also reading a lot of academic crypto papers in 2014, and the assumptions got old real fast. Mickens mocks these ideas:

• "There are heroes and villains with fantastic (yet oddly constrained) powers". Totally standard way to get a paper published. Especially annoying were the mathematical proofs that sound rigorous to outsiders but quietly assume that the adversary just can't/won't solve a certain kind of equation, because it would be inconvenient to prove the scheme secure if they did. Or the "exploits" that only worked if nobody had upgraded their software stack for five years. Or the systems that assume a perfect implementation with no way to recover if anything goes wrong.

• "you could enlist a well-known technology company to [run a PKI], but this would offend the refined aesthetics of the vaguely Marxist but comfortably bourgeoisie hacker community who wants everything to be decentralized", lol. This got really tiresome when I worked on Bitcoin. Lots of semi-technical people who had never run any large system constantly attacking every plausible design of implementable complexity because it wasn't decentralized enough for their tastes, sometimes not even proposing anything better.

• "These [social networks] are not the best people in the history of people, yet somehow, I am supposed to stitch these clowns into a rich cryptographic tapestry that supports key revocation and verifiable audit trails" - another variant of believing decentralized cryptography and PKI is easy.

He also talks about security labels like in SELinux but I never read those papers. I think Mickens used humor to try and get people talking about some of the bad patterns in academic cryptography, but if you want a more serious paper that makes some similar points there's one here:

https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/1336.pdf

Yizahi 1 day ago||
> Lots of semi-technical people who had never run any large system constantly attacking every plausible design of implementable complexity because it wasn't decentralized enough for their tastes, sometimes not even proposing anything better.

And for added fun, that same radical decentralization crowd, finally settling on the extremely centralized Lightning crutch, which is not only centralized but also computationally over complicated and buggy.

commandlinefan 1 day ago|||
> going to use a drone to replace your cellphone with a piece of uranium

That's assuming they can figure out who you are in the first place. My pipe dream for the internet (that I thought we were getting way back in the 90's) is total anonymity. You can say whatever you like about the mossad, or the NSA or the KGB or whatever you like, and they'll never be able to figure out whose cellphone to replace with a piece of uranium.

We have the technology to make it happen (thanks to the paranoid security researchers!) just not the collective will to allow it.

nathan_compton 1 day ago|||
The biggest social challenge to this is astro-turfing, from my own point of view. Even total anonymity with proof of work doesn't solve the problem. Like the idea we want is that people can speak truth to power. But total anonymity makes it quite difficult to figure out if its power speaking lies to create a false perception of the truth.

I mean go read 4chan, a place where there is something like total anonymity. Those people are constantly imagining that half the comments on the site are generated by intelligence agencies and, who knows, maybe they are right? I really do wonder if there is any way to reap the rewards of total anonymity without the poison of bad actors.

I'm somewhat moderate on the issue from a practical point of view. I think citizens have a right to some sort of reasonable privacy and I don't think laws which try to regulate the technical mechanisms by which we can have it make sense, no matter how evil the use of the technology is. But I don't think that, in the end, it is beyond the remit of authority to snoop with, for example, a court order, and the means to do so. I expect authority to abuse power, but I don't think that technological solutions can prevent that. Only a vigilant citizenry can do it.

ikamm 1 day ago|||
If you think the bots and bad actors are bad now...
jojobas 1 day ago|||
It is kinda funny, but cost and benefit analysis is not foreign even to Mossad. Mossad would prefer quite a few people's data stolen, but they are not going to carry out a black abroad for most of them.
ta1243 1 day ago||
> you could enlist a well-known technology company to [run a PKI],

If you have a single company, then that's easy enough for a group like Mossad to infiltrate. Probably easier than a distributed system.

mike_hearn 1 day ago||
The best known PKI (webtrust) is many companies, not a single company. So it's distributed but that makes it easier to hack not harder because you have many possible targets instead of just one.
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