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Posted by 1659447091 3 days ago

The last European train that travels by sea(www.bbc.com)
174 points | 163 commentspage 3
gregoriol 3 days ago|
I'd thought this would have been somewhere in Denmark or Norway
mrweasel 3 days ago||
Denmark had an unfortunate situation about 13 years ago, where the only rail bridge to the northern part of the country was hit by a ship, cutting rail network in two. Some trains where stuck in the north and had to be ferried to Sweden and the take the trip down from Gotenburg, via Malmö and then across the bridge to Copenhagen, because those trains where needed to maintain the service level.

Since then I've been wary of dismantling too much backup infrastructure. The rail tracks to the ferry terminal was still in place in this case, because they are listed as NATO infrastructure, still they where barely maintained.

nemetroid 3 days ago|||
The tracks on the Gothenburg side have since been removed, so even this workaround would not be possible today (they would have to go to Trelleborg instead).
KurSix 3 days ago|||
That's a fascinating bit of rail history
mrweasel 3 days ago||
https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jernbanebroen_over_Limfjorden#... See the 2012 collision, in Danish only, sorry.
AntonTrollback 3 days ago|||
It used be one between Denmark and Germany. Likely that one you are thinking about. Canceled due to the Fehmarn Belt bridge construction.
robin_reala 3 days ago||
If that’s a new term to you, more info at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Belt_fixed_link. It’s a new submerged tunnel that’s being constructed between Germany and Denmark, hopefully opening in 4 years time (though that’s looking increasing unlikely at this point).

I’m looking forwards to it as it’ll nearly halve the Copenhagen <-> Hamburg train time, down to 2 hours and 20 minutes.

sdoering 3 days ago||
Meanwhile on the other side of that lovely little island:

> In 2025 when the tunnel (the Fehmarn Sound Tunnel) was still not approved by authorities it was revealed that it would not be opened in 2029 as it was then planned but in 2032, which would delay train traffic along the new connection until then. Road traffic can use the old bridge.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Sound_Tunnel

I would bet actual money that we (as in we Germans) don't get that tunnel done before 2035.

ncruces 3 days ago|||
There's a bridge between Denmark and Sweden.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Øresund_Bridge

sib 3 days ago||
In 1989 I took the rail/ferry link traveling from Germany to Copenhagen (and back)... It's faster now, but not as "cool"
perihelions 3 days ago||
I'm struggling to come to terms with the depth of anti-modernity sentiment in the West, that it's considered normal (and not mortifying) to read a BBC piece praising a twenty-hour rail journey as a thing of "lyrical beauty", quoting authorities like a "philosophy researcher". Who elevated this flowery nonsense over the common sense of the masses of sane people, with lives and goals and needs and places to be?
Xylakant 3 days ago||
We just took the train to get from Berlin to Sicily for our holiday and will take it back on Sunday. There’s no one forcing you to take the train - there’s plenty of airports around here. But night trains are - at least for some - a great way to travel. You boards the train a 8pm in Milano, and by the time you had breakfast, you’re almost in Messina. Now, I wish that they’d refurbish the rolling stock and make the train run faster on the last legs, but that’s fundamentally a maintenance and upkeep issue. The technology is perfectly fine.
rurban 2 days ago|||
Technology is fine, but this night train is dangerous between Rome and Messina. I got robbed twice. Once you are over in Sicily everything is fine again. We left our luggage in a small Sicilian town center for some hours, and nothing got stolen. Near Napoli it would be gone in 10m.
p1anecrazy 2 days ago|||
Please share the details of the journey
Xylakant 2 days ago|||
The experience was okay, I would take it again. We went all the way from the start in Milano to Messina. The train left Milano on time and pretty much remained on time except for a minor delay in Rome (15 minutes).

We had a 3 person sleeper cabin for ourselves. They do serve a little breakfast - espresso, shrink-wrapped croissants, some biscuits with Marmelade and some salty crackers. Not a great meal, but good enough. If you’re going beyond Messina to Syracuse or Palermo, you should bring food along - or pick something up on the ferry.

The rolling stock is old - as in the toilets are still the kind where you can see the tracks, not a closed system. So they close the toilets a while before you get on the ferry.

Still, the ride was comfortable enough to actually sleep, even though the top bunk is a bit short for people of my size (1,85) - but neither wife nor kid could be convinced to climb up there.

Going to bed in Milano and waking up with a view of the coast was amazing. The beds fold up and you have a proper 3 seat cabin for the rest of the ride.

The ride was amazingly cheap - we paid 160 EUR for two adults and one 8year old, one way, so 330 in total.

jmchisel 2 days ago|||
Not the parent but took this train (Rome -> Palermo) in 2019 and had a middling experience. Based on previous excellent night train experiences (in France) I'd recommended the sleeper train as a great way to get our family down to Sicily. With 3- and 6-year-olds the idea of travelling while sleeping had much appeal.

Unfortunately I should have factored Trenitalia (Italian train operator) into the mix. The train departed an hour late - not such a big deal you'd think for an overnight sleeper train - but it arrived late at Roma Centrale so we couldn't board it and get comfortable. Two small kids at 10pm on a train platform in a big city is not much fun.

The sleeper car was tired, but clean enough. Unfortunately, we'd been mis-advised and there were no buffet/restaurant facilities on the train. We'd assumed that breakfast (either delivered or in said car) was provided, and all we had were a few snacks.

Once the train started moving, the gentle rock-you-to-sleep I remembered from previous night trains was notably absent; rather it was a violent side-to-side pitching that increased concerningly when the train got up to full speed. As the bunks in our compartment were transverse to the direction of travel, in my upper bunk this ended up feeling like lying on a see-saw.

Unsettling accompanying grinding noises pointed to a lack of maintenance, and sure enough, at ARGH o'clock, a frantic banging on the compartment door and some italo-english gesturing from a Trenitalia attendant made it clear that we were being ejected from our broken car. We had to pack up all our stuff which we'd exploded all over the compartment, plus wake up two sleeping kids, and pajama-clad, move onto the 3am platform of Who-knows-where while new compartments were found for all the unlucky residents of our little cocktail-shaker.

Our new digs were much more stable and the overnight ferry crossing passed so smoothly that none of us even woke for more than a second or two when there were some bumps and clanks. I second the request for more speed on the Sicily side though; when you've got a hungry family with no breakfast available, you just wanna get there ASAP. Pretty nice scenery though. Needless to say we demolished everything we could find at Palermo station on arrival though!

blitzar 3 days ago|||
"These people" just dont have the same grindset as you sadly.

They will never know the joy of a 4am ice water facial followed by 21 hours of grinding before 3 hours of sleep before another 4am ice water facial.

perihelions 3 days ago||
"I'd prefer to spend time with my family at the end of this rail journey rather than spend that time contemplating the history-rich aesthetics of the rail carriage" isn't a "grindset".

Transport is a *tool* for most people—a means, not an end, as it is for a tiny subset of travel reporters (overrepresented in print). It dehumanizes people to delegitimatize their subjective valuation of their own lives' priorities. Wanting to go fast, deprioritizing transport as a mere tool, doesn't make them defective people.

High-speed rail is an awesome thing and it weirds me out to have been shamed and mocked for advocating for it.

n4r9 3 days ago||
Please consider that your original post could also be seen as shaming people who appreciate the beauty of train journeys.

Some of the best quality time I've spent with my son has been during train journeys. Like many two-year olds he loves the whole experience. Watching out of the window while the train is moved onto a ferry would blow his mind. I agree that high-speed trains are marvellous; I'm sad that their introduction deprives us of some rich cultural experiences.

rafram 3 days ago|||
As the article states, they’re planning to build a bridge. You can have an efficient option and a scenic/nostalgic option on the same route. This is just a bit of sentimentality about a cool train journey that might be replaced, not “anti-modernity sentiment.”
n4r9 3 days ago||
Is continuous hurry your ideal state of civilization?
lukan 3 days ago||
Is spending life time in a train your goal? I like trains. To get quickly, safe and comfortable from A to B. Changing to a ferry is ... what I would consider a one time experience, but I rather would have the option to go by fast train straight to sicily whenever I feel like.

As of now, flying remains way cheaper, despite being worse ecological. But this won't change like that.

Xylakant 3 days ago||
The time you spend on a night trains is spent sleeping. They deliberately don’t run full pace - no one wants to arrive at 5 in the morning. So they slow-roll on a long stretch to make arrival times reasonable.

Very often you can make an earlier arrival at a destination via night train than you can via plane - unless you fly in the evening before.

lukan 3 days ago|||
There are often distances I like to travel, far longer than one night. I really don't see the point in making it harder on purpose. There are plenty of places where getting there is an adventure. I like adventures. But not when just visiting family or alike.
Xylakant 3 days ago||
Nobody is making anything harder on purpose. You can take a plane. But for a lot of European distances, night trains are perfectly good. I would love if they’d resurrect the night train that went to my parents place - I would board it on Friday 10pm to go home, be there Saturday for breakfast, board the train back at midnight on Sunday and roll into the Berlin main station in time to make it to work. Not a single lost minute for the trip, maximize time at the destination.
lukan 3 days ago||
"You can take a plane."

I know. But my ecological consciousness has a problem with that. So yes, I also like night trains. And I also like bridges in general for better connection. I did not run the numbers to see if it makes sense here or just for the Mafiosi (I heard that complaint a lot). I am arguing against the romanticed point above, keeping the ferry because some think it is romantic.

ac29 3 days ago|||
> The time you spend on a night trains is spent sleeping.

Have you ever been on a night train?

I love train travel but night trains are rough since I find it very difficult to sleep. But, I cant really sleep on planes either.

Xylakant 3 days ago||
Yes, I have. As I wrote in the sibling comments the last time just a week ago, the actual train that’s being discussed here. I’ll be again on Friday, for the return. I’ve taken multiple other night train connections before and in my experience, the quality depends to a large extend on the operator and the rolling stock. Older stock makes for less comfort, especially if not well maintained.

In my experience sleeping on the train also takes a bit of getting used to. Then again, maybe it’s really not for you - that’s ok.

Lucian6 2 days ago||
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ochrist 3 days ago|
That's not the last European train that travels by sea. If you go from Sweden or Denmark towards Germany the train crosses from Denmark to Germany by ferry (that is until the new Femern tunnel is finished): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8DPuDsYe_k https://femern.com/the-tunnel/fehmarnbelt-tunnel/
PinguTS 3 days ago||
You should read the whole article before claiming things.

> After the 2019 closure of the Puttgarden-Rødby service between Germany and Denmark and the seasonal Sassnitz-Trelleborg route linking Germany and Sweden in 2020, the Intercity is now the last one running. All the rest were replaced by bridges or tunnels, or proved too expensive to maintain as demand fell in favour of air travel.

ochrist 3 days ago||
Yes, sorry. I sometimes pass the connection Rødby - Puttgarden by car, and I have seen trains there recently. But they obviously don't use the ferry anymore.
detaro 3 days ago||
The line you mention doesn't run anymore, and hasn't since 2019.
Reason077 3 days ago|||
Yep. I took that train, Hamburg to Copenhagen, back when it still ran on the the ferry. Lots of fun!

The route actually does still run, of course, but it takes the long way around via land until the Fehmarn Belt tunnel[1] opens around 2029.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Belt_fixed_link

ochrist 3 days ago||||
My bad. Sorry. I see that they changed the route to go via Jutland because of the upcoming tunnel. So yes, the Italian line is probably the last one of its kind. The Danish-German connection will probably not be reestablished, as the new tunnel will replace the ferry.
eesmith 3 days ago|||
Its closure is also mentioned in the text: "After the 2019 closure of the Puttgarden-Rødby service between Germany and Denmark and the seasonal Sassnitz-Trelleborg route linking Germany and Sweden in 2020, the Intercity is now the last one running."
halper 3 days ago||
Ah, sweet memories. Grumpy German border guards boarding to loudly demand papers, but if you were slow to pull the ID card out they just kept walking. Semi-open border policy ;)
Findecanor 3 days ago||
During the Cold War, the train on the Trelleborg-Sassnitz ferry went to West Berlin ... through East Germany with no getting on or off over that stretch.

BTW. I was on the Hamburg-Copenhagen train on the Puttgarten-Rødby ferry in 2015 during the height of the Syrian refugee crisis. I had changed my booking to earlier trains because of expected delays. It and connecting trains were packed, as were the train stations, also with immigration officials and volunteers. Brings tears to my eyes to this day.