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Posted by zerosizedweasle 2 days ago

Amazon targets as many as 30k corporate job cuts, sources say(www.reuters.com)
180 points | 121 commentspage 2
pasola 2 days ago|
Jassy's most notable accomplishment in the last five years.

Seconded only by the time he ended WFH in a stealth blog post the day after hosting the all-hands meeting.

tacticalturtle 2 days ago||
> This latest move signals that Amazon is likely realizing enough AI-driven productivity gains within corporate teams to support a substantial reduction in force," said Sky Canaves, an eMarketer analyst. "Amazon has also been under pressure in the short-term to offset the long-term investments in building out its AI infrastructure."

What is this take based on?

How likely are the cuts due to overhiring for projects that are being axed, vs for projects that are continuing with automation?

And no offense to Ms Canaves, but why is an “eMarketer analyst” being called on to explain Amazon hiring decisions relating to their progress in AI?

JCM9 2 days ago|
The layoffs have nothing to do with AI.

It’s sorting out org bloat, span of control issues, and teams without a clear ROI. Normal “leadership mismanaged the company and now there’s a mess to cleanup” stuff.

disgruntledphd2 2 days ago||
But AI is both expensive (from a capital standpoint) and a great excuse for investors, hence the spin.
christhecaribou 2 days ago||
Right after that egregious U.S.-east-1 outage?
belter 2 days ago||
Now its just an api call...

  aws hr reduce workforce --region us-east-1
webdevver 2 days ago||
replacing hr with claude code powered bash scripts might just be what the industry desperately needs
motorest 2 days ago||
Amazon and AWS are two separate companies.

From the article:

> The cuts beginning this week may impact a variety of divisions within Amazon, including human resources, known as People Experience and Technology, devices and services and operations, among others, the people said.

JCM9 2 days ago||
Amazon includes AWS. They’re not “separate companies.”
tonyedgecombe 2 days ago|||
> They’re not “separate companies.”

They should be completely separate. If they were two independent companies, a low margin distribution and logistics company on one side and a high margin software services company on the other then nobody would suggest merging the two together.

whatever1 2 days ago||
How is AWS getting billions of cash and low interest rate loans for capex?

That’s right. The trillion dollar low margin dinosaur pays cash by writing close to zero profit in the books, and signs the bonds.

motorest 2 days ago||
> How is AWS getting billions of cash and low interest rate loans for capex?

AWS is the cash cow. It owns between a third and half of the world's cloud computing market. Do you think it's hard for AWS to get financing?

whatever1 2 days ago||
Yes. This year only they announced they will exceed 100B in AWS investment. This is almost as high as their 2024 revenue (not profit).

Which cloud company can casually find 100B cash in a year?

motorest 2 days ago||
> Which cloud company can casually find 100B cash in a year?

AWS. Because AWS reports close to $11B/quarter, which is over half Amazon's entire revenue, and AWS owns the cloud computing market, on which the whole world runs.

whatever1 2 days ago||
AMZN revenue was over $150B/quarter in 2024. AWS was around 25B. So closer 20% of AMZN revenue.

Probably you mean operating income.

The key number for operating a company is the free cash flow.

AWS does not have the cash flow to maintain its CAPEX. It currently uses part of Retail FCF and additional debt that the entire AMZN company takes.

NVIDIA does not offer you 10 year payment plan (like depreciation schedules assume). They ask for their cash upfront.

If it was that easy to find cash OpenAI would not have given up so much equity to dinosaurs with strong balance sheet.

motorest 2 days ago||||
> Amazon includes AWS. They’re not “separate companies.”

Actually, they are. Perhaps what is causing your confusion is that other parts of Amazon, such as Ring or Rivian, are also separate companies, whereas parts such as Alexa and Amazon Music aren't.

JCM9 2 days ago||
By your definition then every little part of “Amazon” is technically a separate “company” including every geo. For the purposes of the discussion at hand they’re all the same. Amazon PXT and finance is the same team as AWS PXT and finance.
motorest 2 days ago||
> By your definition then every little part of “Amazon” is technically a separate “company” including every geo.

No. My definition is Amazon's actual organization chart as a holding. AWS is an independent first-level branch of direct reports of Andy Jassy, who was AWS's CEO before replacing Bezos. A similar branch is Worldwide Consumer, which groups what you think Amazon actually is, which means the online store, prime, books, devices, etc.

asteroidburger 2 days ago|||
Amazon Web Services, Inc. is a subsidiary of Amazon.com, Inc.
heywintermute 2 days ago||
roughly 10% of their corporate workforce wow
triceratops 2 days ago|
Wow they have 300k corporate workers?
nylon4831 2 days ago||
350k according to the article
sharts 2 days ago||
Don’t worry, most of those people will end up elsewhere and still think that employee protections are a bad thing because innovation.
raincom 2 days ago||
Are warehouse workers considered as corporate?
bugbuddy 2 days ago|
No
insane_dreamer 2 days ago||
Is $59B in _net profit_ last year (~double the year before) enough?

No, it's not! Let's transfer another few $B from workers to our needy shareholders.

Upward and onward!

HDThoreaun 2 days ago||
The goal of a company is to maximize profit, not reach a number and decide that is enough.
Ekaros 2 days ago|||
I think these days goal of a publicly traded company is to maximise the stock price for next 3 months.
yifanl 2 days ago|||
If this was the case, then every company on the planet would be dealing fent on the side. Given this is not happening, we can conclude that there are secondary objectives of companies.
ThrowawayR2 2 days ago||
Why would anyone gripe about "needy shareholders" on a site paid for and run by a tech VC firm for tech startups, founders, and fellow venture capitalists? If you disapprove of too much money going to shareholders, you're in the wrong place to find a receptive audience.
insane_dreamer 1 day ago||
> If you disapprove of too much money going to shareholders, you're in the wrong place to find a receptive audience.

On this point the audience and I are on opposite sides, and that's fine by me :)

JCM9 2 days ago||
Not surprising given folks have been saying Amazon/AWS has been a bloated mess for a while now. After periods of strong growth it’s not unusual for things to need a good cleanup.

Unfortunately good folks find themselves on the wrong team at the wrong time while top leadership, which created the bloated mess, generally squeaks by.

thewebguyd 2 days ago||
> After periods of strong growth it’s not unusual for things to need a good cleanup.

30k, nearly 10% of their workforce, isn't a little "cleanup to reduce bloat" it's a massacre.

sunir 2 days ago||
The word decimate is sitting right there.
Insanity 2 days ago|||
And in this case actually correct! Decimate is often used to mean “almost wipe out”, but the word actually comes from “killing every 10th person”.. I.e 10% of a group.
webdevver 2 days ago|||
eviscerated!
motorest 2 days ago|||
> Not surprising given folks have been saying Amazon/AWS has been a bloated mess for a while now.

Who exactly do you think is saying this? Because from what I'm understanding, so far Amazon has been decimating teams at the expense of overworking them even more, and by cutting projects at the expense of cancelling maintenance and feature work.

JCM9 2 days ago||
Like a lot of big tech companies Amazon is a small number of teams with profitable products and a whole bunch of other things that don’t make money. Events like this are when the teams not contributing to the bottom line are cleaned up.
_DeadFred_ 2 days ago|||
Reminder 'cleaned up' means lives ruined, sick people losing the ability to afford insurance (COBRA is insanely expensive especially considering you just lost your job), homes lost, families forced to move and children losing their friends/forced to new schools, and in some cases suicide.
motorest 2 days ago|||
> Like a lot of big tech companies Amazon is a small number of teams with profitable products and a whole bunch of other things that don’t make money.

I think that's a simplistic view of the issue. At Amazon, each team owns at best specific features embedded in products. Some projects such as e-readers are there as loss leaders to support cash cows such as it's ebook market. From your simplistic opinion, Amazon would have cut zero employees from it's books organization as it's business is booming and it's a profit center. But that doesn't match reality.

Also note that you are making that unfounded claim while commenting on news that Amazon is going to focus it's firing round on HR. Is HR a profit center now?

> Events like this are when the teams not contributing to the bottom line are cleaned up.

Except that's bullshit. Amazon decimated teams by firing new arrivals and by transferring projects out of the US into Europe and Asia. This hasn't anything to do with efficiency or performance in mind.

bix6 2 days ago||
Kindle is a loss leader?
motorest 2 days ago|||
> Kindle is a loss leader?

What do you think "Kindle" is? Is it a specific device? Is it Kindle for Web? Is it the Android or iPhone apps? Is it Kindle for Windows or Kindle for Mac? Among these, can you count how many are paid?

apparent 1 day ago|||
At $50, Kindle Fire tablets sure are. The regular Kindles, maybe less so.
bugbuddy 2 days ago||
The most interesting question is how many management positions got axed as part of this.
christhecaribou 2 days ago||
The first level or two of management are completely useless and operate more as “slave drivers” than engineers.
rvz 2 days ago||
That's a lot of employees getting punished for that AWS outage.

Either way, that's in line with the true definition of "AGI" and getting closer to the timeframe of 2030 to do more with less.

Supermancho 2 days ago|
> That's a lot of employees getting punished for that AWS outage.

This is obviously not that. This is a cut before reporting quarterly earnings.

jnaina 2 days ago|
As an AWS shareholder, I applaud this.

The org suffers from several systemic issues: entrenched tenured employees coasting on accumulated RSUs who resist change, middle management engaged in territorial conflicts/fiefdom turf wars that prioritize their own self-preservation over company goals, numerous underperforming hires made to meet diversity targets rather than capability needs, and leaders whose primary competencies lie in mastering the silly cliched "Amazon speak" (Amazon LP this and LP that, quoting Bezos as opening lines, day ones, etc) and the usual de rigueur rituals such as churning out obligatory, meaningless six-pagers, instead of driving genuine innovation or results.

AWS is fast becoming a parody of itself and needs a reset. The recent outage is a harbinger of things to come, if things continue as is.

pasola 2 days ago||
Jassy is going about this the wrong way. In practice, reducing the number of line managers meant that engineers are having to do the managerial work themselves.

So they're writing even more six-pagers to satisfy the other managers which they're no longer shielded from having to interact with directly.

sharts 2 days ago|||
How does one become an AWS shareholder but not a rest-of-Amazon shareholder?

Amazon as a retailer has far worse problems than AWS.

silisili 2 days ago|||
On the contrary, I feel the opposite. Layoffs are a cheap way to goose your stock price, not much unlike buybacks. I exit positions in companies in either case, as it shows they have no immediate plans for growth.

I don't disagree with the rest. But you can effect a lot of change without mass layoffs...

jnaina 2 days ago|||
If Andy Jassy is also part of the 30K to be let go, AMZN will be up 50 points in no time
rsanek 2 days ago|||
you must have a pretty short list of companies you can continue to hold. something like 90% of S&P500 does stock buybacks. if you also include layoffs that's going to reach close to every single company.
silisili 1 day ago||
No, as it's not permanent. Going from no buybacks to buybacks for example can be a bad sign to me. Companies who have been doing them for years perhaps less so. Same with layoffs. It's not like a boycott list, it's more of a near term indicator for me.
oenton 1 day ago|||
As another AWS shareholder, I can agree with most of your points however this one requires citation (emphasis mine)

> numerous underperforming hires _made to meet diversity targets rather than capability needs_

mji 2 days ago|||
Even if we suppose all those things are true (not a given), I would not expect these layoffs to meaningfully change them.
UncleMeat 2 days ago||
And the way we will break through this problem is to fire a shitload of people such that everybody is frightened for their continued employment such that they focus on looking the part and fight for the most valuable turf so that they aren't likely to be on the chopping block next time.

/s