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Posted by doener 1 day ago

Picture gallery: Amiga prototype "Lorraine" at the Amiga 40 event(www.amiga-news.de)
173 points | 81 comments
FarmerPotato 1 day ago|
At VCFMW last month, my table was adjacent to Lorraine and her friends.

Ben Heck walked by during setup, and asked me what it was. I was clueless, so we started making educated guesses. The Amiga poster was a start.

I do wire-wrap. This thing is a marvel to behold. It is quite orderly, but could have used colors more effectively.

The three units implement the VLSI chips and the main board of the Amiga that was first shown at CES (I believe.)

Each VLSI is a stack of PCB such as you might get from Vector, with columns of pads for ICs in wire-wrap sockets, buss bars, and edge areas having mounting holes for connectors. The layers are connected by ribbon cables.

(they are not called breadboard!)

Wire wrap is a superior technology. There are no cold solder joints. They are gas-tight.

It is not hard to debug. If you follow some rules, and don't make a spaghetti bird's nest.

Such workmanship can be seen on minicomputers of the early 1970s.

Whole computers were made by wire-wrap around MSI chips. My wire-wrapped PDP-11/10 functioned perfectly thru the 1990s.

Recently, I implemented a microcomputer design in wire-wrap. That was enjoyable!

My design was captured in KiCad, laid out as a PCB, which I translated to perf-board and wire-wrap sockets

This approach is perfect for prototyping, as you can simply add new blocks.

jacquesm 1 day ago||
I probably still have my wire-wrap gun in storage somewhere but I would much rather use an FPGA. If you don't mind, answering, why do you still use this tech instead of FPGAs?

As for cold solder joints: no, they don't do that. But when you start making modifications you have to be extremely careful not to cause any damage because tracing a loose joint on a wire wrap board is the stuff of nightmares.

FarmerPotato 20 hours ago||
Because I want to play with original chips. Many of them are in DIP sockets and are 5V. Not to mention linear and analog functions! No matter what, there's always wires or traces between packages.

When I want to do FPGA, I start with an IceStick or BlackIce board (Lattice ICE40 FPGA). But then it comes down to interfacing it to some other chip. So if I make a little PCB that needs more than 16 I/O pins at the edge, I've got myself into extra ribbon cable to jumper to more I/Os..

I even made one wire-wrap board with 4 socketed 74LVC245 level shifters that the BlackIce board would plug into. From there, I could do what I wanted.

I agree that damaging your wires is a serious risk. I guess I'm lucky that this never derailed me. I follow the color rule: blue on the bottom layer, yellow on the second. No daisy chains! Rather than unwrapping to get to a hidden blue wire, I can just cut it.

Also I should mention that I'm not doing anything above 25 MHz.

jacquesm 11 hours ago||
I see, very interesting. I try really hard to get everything in the digital domain as soon as possible but yes, if you are into analog and linear and use the original chips then it makes good sense.

Thank you for the explanation and much good luck with your projects.

aquariusDue 1 day ago||
For a clumsy person like me wire-wrap seems even harder than the usual stuff around soldering, that said I'll look into it more because it seems incredibly interesting.

Also it's nice hearing about Ben Heck in the wild, when I first started fiddling with Arduino I watched his YouTube videos on the element14 channel. Though from what I remember he's long since left. Another channel that I remember fondly is EEVblog even though both were about electronics the content itself didn't have much overlap if I recall correctly.

danby 1 day ago||
FWIW when wire wrapping you can get handy little hollow tools. You feed the wire in to a hole in the tool, drop the tool over the pin and just spin the tool to wrap the wire round the pin. It's all very neat and tidy and requires pretty minimal hand-eye-coordination to get it looking nice.

I bought a tiny little one of the tools a while ago when doing some raspberry pi prototyping. Makes it easy to attach a wire to the GPIO header if it's not a dupont lead/wire

FarmerPotato 17 hours ago||
The important thing about wire-wrap sockets: they have square-ish pins.

As you wrap the wire around the square pin, there is a mind-boggling degree of force between the corner and the wire, creating a gas-tight seal.

It's tougher to get a good wrap onto a round pin. You can buy square-pin headers from peconnectors

yzydserd 1 day ago||
The display was in a booth replicating the 1984 Winter CES booth. Here is a Creative Computing article from the 1984 event.

https://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v10n4/150_Amiga_Lorr...

Forbodingly, the article signs off with "Amiga, please don't join the sorrowful ranks that have wasted technological superiority through marketing muck-ups."

krige 1 day ago|
Well, lucky Amiga, it was wasted by executive muck-ups rather than mere marketing foibles.
actionfromafar 1 day ago||
The marketing managed to miss most of the time, too. (Mostly because of exec-level misguidance, though.)
hmstx 1 day ago||
Never seen wire wrapped boards besides photos of this and maybe some other early micro. So of course I had to do a little search and one of the first results has Bil Herd from Commodore (Plus/4, C128...) explaining it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvEDM-m9CE

8bitsrule 1 day ago|
Thanks for sharing that! Never got to see any pro wrapping.

By the time this stuff started, I'd started forgetting all the hobbyist hardware electronics I'd learned (thinking it would last) and had moved to software ... at right about the time that manu's stopped documenting their internals ... but while disassemblers still existed.

hmstx 1 day ago||
In retrospect, it seems almost nuts that appliances from the past came with not only a block diagram, but a schematic. Especially now that everything is not only too complex to be documented "for your own good", and even potential repair techs, and now with DMCA protected software locks.

I still sometimes use the old Scott amplifier my parents got 50 years ago, with manual - and it has everything you need for a repair (besides a list of modern day replacement for some of these, of course). Same with the ol' Amiga 500 in a box over at their house. A lot of tinkering you could scheme on your own without going online (my quartz oscillator overclocking replacement never materialized, but hey).

Schlagbohrer 1 day ago||
What a godawful mess that must have been to debug. I've never used wirewrap, it looks awful to me.

I am trying to imagine what it would have been like to design such a system using only pencil and paper. Going from block diagram to the lowest level, just on big sheets of paper... the pencil sharpeners must have been emptied twice a day.

rwmj 1 day ago||
I made wirewrap boards back in the early 90s and it was extremely tedious, both following the netlist instructions to do the initial work, and then the inevitable debugging when it didn't work. Of course you can have two kinds of bugs - either you made a mistake doing the wirewrap, or your design has a problem! For the complexity of the boards I did, I think it took 2-3 days to do the initial wirewrap, and then days or weeks to debug and get it working.

It was, however, both cheaper and easier than doing a prototype PCB. For that, I'd have to use the institution's darkroom with their flatbed photoplotter connected to a PDP-something that you had to boot from reel-to-reel tape. The plot happened overnight, and then had to be developed next day in the darkroom, and then if you were lucky you'd have transparencies of each layer of the PCB that you could send off to a local company who would etch you a single PCB for a lot of money in a few weeks. Even that wasn't trouble-free, since PCBs can have manufacturing faults, or you could screw up when soldering the components to the board, or your design could be wrong.

It was very rare that I as the most junior person was allowed to go the PCB route. I think for my boards it happened only once on an ECL design that simply wouldn't have been possible with wirewrap. Although I was tasked with doing the transparencies for other team members. Since I was being paid only £40/week through a government benefits scheme, it was much cheaper to pay for my time than to pay an external company.

Also as the other reply says, I used CPLDs a lot which were much faster to iterate. With practice you could pull out the QFP package, put it in the programmer, recompile and upload the new logic, and put it back into the board in an hour. Luxury!

We never used pencil and paper (except for notes). The software for drawing schematics, laying out PCBs, making netlists, and compiling CPLDs was pretty advanced even then. Although all of it was horribly proprietary. No KiCAD for you.

Taught you to check everything in your design early and often.

Gibbon1 1 day ago||
The existence of wire wrap tells you a lot how painfully tedious it was to layout PCB's at the time. I did a couple of wire wrap boards. But eventually just started soldering wire wrap wire to the sockets. By the early 90's it was faster to layout a PCB and have it fabbed. Bonus you could outsource that and use the 3-4 weeks to do less tedious things.

This is just around the time that programmable logic became readily available. It'd be much easier to iterate with that than wiring up logic gates. Last 30 years you can do all this debugging with simulations and then test using FPGA's.

FarmerPotato 1 day ago|||
Present day: I can fabricate a wire-wrap version from my PCB footprints, much faster than I can route the PCB!

With wire-wrap, you can route multiple traces between the same pins, or I like to neatly bundle a whole bus' worth.

I'm far more pleased with the results of my wire-wrap, than the quality of my SMT soldering once I get a PCB made.

I had a tutor for wire-wrap in the 1980s. But I'm self-taught in PCB routing, and I start it over at least 3 times.

pjmlp 1 day ago||||
When I was a kid helping my father with in-house electronics, early 1980's, this meant using specific pens and paper to layout them into boards, and then do chemical baths, drying the boards, and then hope for the best when starting to solder components on top.

Usually a mistake in any step would mean throw away the whole board and start from scratch.

FarmerPotato 1 day ago|||
I'm old-young enough to be aware of the evolution of minicomputers implemented in MSI TTL with wire-wrap (1970) to VLSI integration (1975). Examples are the LSI-11 and TMS9900.

My first home-brew micro was done in 1987 using the Radio Shack hand-tool and an OK Industries' motorized wrap gun.

Now, I add CPLD to my wire-wrap designs! Just like on an iterated PCB, you must lock the physical pins to functions.

TheOtherHobbes 1 day ago||
Some DEC CPUs were wire-wrapped until VLSI became a thing. The KL-10 was notoriously an ECL wire-wrap design.

But they had a semi-automated machine to handle it. I don't think anyone mass-produced non-trivial numbers of wire-wrap boards by hand. It's fine for prototypes, but it's a very error-prone process and makes it difficult to handle noise, especially at fast clock speeds.

Lio 1 day ago||
I love this, it’s like a holy relic. :D
Jolter 1 day ago||
I’m amazed someone preserved that! In whose ownership is it currently?
gpderetta 1 day ago||
I remember seeing old photos of the prototype. I assumed it was lost decades ago.
hmstx 1 day ago||
Dale Luck (from the original team) is preserving it, apparently.
verytrivial 1 day ago||
Wire wrap is/was an underrated prototyping technique prior to PCB automation. Nasa flew missions with wire wrap boards.
mikepurvis 1 day ago|
I had an old Kenwood amplifier for years that had wire wrap board to board connectors; it worked great.
ivolimmen 1 day ago||
I was there and it was glorious to watch. Beautiful to see an interesting part of history up close.
guerrilla 1 day ago||
If they could build that then, imagine what Ben Eater could build today. ;)
ra 1 day ago|
When I was a kid I had a Dragon32 and my little brother had an Amiga 500. I thought it was so cool with the demos and the sound but he was always getting worms that spread via floppy disc.
squarefoot 1 day ago||
Yes, that was a real problem. The Amiga would access disks every time they were inserted to id them, but viruses too would use that feature to spread themselves; they would remain resident in memory (also after warm resets) then write themselves on the bootblock of every inserted floppy. Seeing the computer access every inserted disk was then normal, no way to know if it was for reading or writing, so back then I built a small device that would take the writing pulse on the floppy port, make it a bit longer and drive a beeper. If I then inserted a floppy and it started beeping that meant that floppy and the one I read before it were infected so that I could restrict the suspects list and clean them. It was very effective, built some for friends and also sold some of them on local listings.
ra 11 hours ago||
Ha! that was genius of your younger self.
bbarnett 1 day ago|||
Yup, heh. And you'd infect all your floppies if you just warm booted, and put in the next game.

Flipping the read only tab on every floppy was the first thing I did, after my first infection.

attila-lendvai 1 day ago||
there was a distinct floppy sound when the filesystem was updated after a write.

i noticed my first virus pretty quickly, and even though i couldn't remove it, i could disable it in some files that i couldn't reproduce (no internet back then, and i was on the wrong side of the iron curtain as a child)

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