Top
Best
New

Posted by keybits 2 days ago

We need a clearer framework for AI-assisted contributions to open source(samsaffron.com)
287 points | 151 commentspage 3
anal_reactor 2 days ago|
An idea occurred to me. What if:

1. Someone raises a PR

2. Entry-level maintainers skim through it and either reject or pass higher up

3. If the PR has sufficient quality, the PR gets reviewed by someone who actually has merge permissions

jongjong 2 days ago||
2 months ago, after I started using Claude Code on my side project, within the space of days, I went from not allowing a single line of AI code into my codebase to almost 100% AI-written code. It basically codes in my exact style and I know ahead of time what code I expect to see so reviewing is really easy.

I cannot justify to myself writing code by hand when there is literally no difference in the output from how I would have done it myself. It might as well be reading my mind, that's what it feels like.

For me, vibe coding is essentially a 5x speed increase with no downside. I cannot believe how fast I can churn out features. All the stuff I used to type out by hand now seems impossibly boring. I just don't have the patience to hand-code anymore.

I've stuck to vanilla JavaScript because I don't have the patience to wait for the TypeScript transpiler. TS iteration speed is too slow. By the time it finishes transpiling, I can't even remember what I was trying to do. So you bet I don't have the patience to write by hand now. I really need momentum (fast iteration speed) when I code and LLMs provide that.

listenallyall 2 days ago|
I dont mean to question you personally, after all this is the internet, but comments like yours do make the reader think, if he has 5x'ed his coding, was he any good to begin with? I guess what I'm saying is, without knowing your baseline skill level, I dont know whether to be impressed by your story. Have you become a super-programmer, or is it just cleaning up stupid stuff that you shouldn't have been doing in the first place? If someone is already a clear-headed, efficient, experienced programmer, would that person be seeing anywhere near the benefits you have? Again, this isn't a slight on you personally, it's just, a reader doesnt really know how to place your experience into context.
jongjong 1 day ago||
I have a computer science degree and quite experienced. In the last 10 years, I've created a few side projects and also worked as a senior engineer professionally. I was engineer #3 at what later became the #1 biggest Maths e-learning platform in my country. I later built a popular distributed open source WebSocket pub/sub system which auto-scales on Kubernetes (with load balancing and sharding). I lead the development of the P2P layer of a $300 million+ market cap crypto project in Germany. I wrote a multi-chain Decentralized Exchange from scratch along with a minimalist PoS blockchain with support for instant finality. Then I wrote a multi-tenant no-code serverless platform to build/host any kind of app. Then (in part to demonstrate the search and indexing capabilities of the serverless no-code platform), I used this platform to build a multi-tenant people/company search platform which allows users to crawl the web and tag data using vector embeddings using a BFS algorithm (current side project). I'm still running all these projects in parallel because they require very little maintenance. My blockchain nodes have been running for 4 years straight. I restarted a node twice in 4 years due to infrastructure issue so very reliable.

Obviously, I suck at business and marketing. I only had one relatively financially successful product (my open source project, ironically) but I'm definitely able to build features quickly and in a stable way according to spec.

lapcat 2 days ago||
> That said it is a living demo that can help make an idea feel more real. It is also enormously fun. Think of it as a delightful movie set.

[pedantry] It bothers me that the photo for "think of prototype PRs as movie sets" is clearly not a movie set but rather the set of the TV show Seinfeld. Anyone who watched the show would immediately recognize Jerry's apartment.

DerThorsten 2 days ago|
Its not the set of the TV show I beliefe, but a recreation.

https://nypost.com/2015/06/23/you-can-now-visit-the-iconic-s...

It looks a bit different wrt. the stuff on the fridge and the items in the cupboard

throwawaysoxjje 2 days ago|||
It’s this Sony Picture Studios recreation actually:

https://www.reddit.com/r/seinfeld/comments/yfbmn2/sony_pictu...

lapcat 2 days ago|||
I'm not sure what you mean. Those two photos are very different. The floors are entirely different, the tables are entirely different, one of the chairs/couches is different, even the intercom and light switch are different.

In any case, though, neither one is a movie set.

DerThorsten 2 days ago||
I think we agree, it looks like the seinfeld set, but it not the orginal set, just something looking very similar.
insane_dreamer 1 day ago||
related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45330378
dearilos 2 days ago||
We’re fixing this slop problem - engineers write rules that are enforced on PRs. Fixes the problem pretty well so far.
mattlondon 2 days ago||
The way we do it is to use AI to review the PR before a human reviewer sees it. Obvious errors, non-consistent patterns, weirdness etc is flagged before it goes any further. "Vibe coded" slop usually gets caught, but "vibe engineered" surgical changes that adhere to common patterns and standards and have tests etc get to be seen by a real live human for their normal review.

It's not rocket science.

franktankbank 2 days ago|
Do you work at a profitable company?
jcgrillo 2 days ago||
> Some go so far as to say “AI not welcome here” find another project.

This feels extremely counterproductive and fundamentally unenforceable to me.

But it's trivially enforceable. Accept PRs from unverified contributors, look at them for inspiration if you like, but don't ever merge one. It's probably not a satisfying answer, but if you want or need to ensure your project hasn't been infected by AI generated code you need to only accept contributions from people you know and trust.

anon3242 2 days ago|
This is sad. The barrier of entry will be raised extremely high, maybe even requiring some real world personal connections to the maintainer.
jcgrillo 2 days ago||
Real world personal connections are how we establish trust. At some point you have to be able to trust the people you're collaborating with.
ninju 2 days ago||
Well...just have AI review the PR to have it highlight the slop

/s

jmpeax 2 days ago||
[flagged]
colesantiago 2 days ago|
I wouldn't call it "vibe coded slop" the models are getting way better and I can work with my engineers a lot faster.

I am the founder and a product person so it helps in reducing the number of needed engineers at my business. We are currently doing $2.5M ARR and the engineers aren't complaining, in fact it is the opposite, they are actually more productive.

We still prioritize architecture planning, testing and having a CI, but code is getting less and less important in our team, so we don't need many engineers.

pards 2 days ago||
> code is getting less and less important in our team, so we don't need many engineers.

That's a bit reductive. Programmers write code; engineers build systems.

I'd argue that you still need engineers for architecture, system design, protocol design, API design, tech stack evaluation & selection, rollout strategies, etc, and most of this has to be unambiguously documented in a format LLMs can understand.

While I agree that the value of code has decreased now that we can generate and regenerate code from specs, we still need a substantial number of experienced engineers to curate all the specs and inputs that we feed into LLMs.

didericis 2 days ago|||
> we can generate and regenerate code from specs

We can (unreliably) write more code in natural english now. At its core it’s the same thing: detailed instructions telling the computer what it should do.

HPsquared 2 days ago|||
Maybe the code itself is less important now, relative to the specification.
wycy 2 days ago|||
> the engineers aren't complaining, in fact it is the opposite, they are actually more productive.

More productive isn't the opposite of complaining.

colesantiago 2 days ago||
I don't hear any either way.
blitzar 2 days ago||
If an engineer complains in the woods and nobody is around to hear them, did they even complain at all?
hansmayer 2 days ago|||
> and a product person

Tells me all I need to know about your ability for sound judgement on technical topics right there.

lawn 2 days ago|||
> so it helps in reducing the number of needed engineers at my business

> the engineers aren't complaining

You're missing a piece of the puzzle here, Mr business person.

colesantiago 2 days ago||
I mean our MRR and ARR is growing so we must be doing something right.
sgarland 2 days ago||
WeWork thought that as well.
theultdev 2 days ago|||
> reducing the number of needed engineers at my business

> code is getting less and less important in our team

> the engineers aren't complaining

lays off engineers for ai trained off of other engineer's code and says code is less important and engineers aren't complaining.

colesantiago 2 days ago||
Um, yes?

They can focus on other things that are more impactful in the business rather than just slinging code all day, they can actually look at design and the product!

Maximum headcount for engineers is around 7, no more than that now. I used to have 20, but with AI we don't need that many for our size.

BigTTYGothGF 2 days ago|||
> Maximum headcount for engineers is around 7, no more than that now. I used to have 20,

If I survived having 65% of my colleagues laid off you'd better believe I wouldn't complain in public.

fusslo 2 days ago||
BigTTYGothGF is right

I'd also be looking for a new job that values the skills I've spent a decade building.

I wonder if the remaining engineers' salary increased by the salary of the laid off coworkers'

theultdev 2 days ago|||
Yeah or start my own company since they're basically doing everything now it sounds like.

Someone barking orders at you to generate code because they are too stupid to be able to read it is not very fun.

These people hire developers because their own brains are inferior, and now they think they can replace them because they don't want to share the wages with them.

theultdev 1 day ago|||
> I wonder if the remaining engineers' salary increased by the salary of the laid off coworkers'

Never does.

theultdev 2 days ago|||
Yeah I'm sure they aren't complaining because you'll just lay them off like the others.

I don't see how you could think 7 engineers would love the workload of 20 engineers, extra tooling or not.

Have fun with the tech debt in a few years.

fusslo 2 days ago||
thats the trouble I see with AI and management.

Management may see a churn of a few years as acceptable. If management makes 1$M in that time.. they wont care. "Once I get mine, I don't care"

Like my old CEO who moved out of state to avoid a massive tax bill, got his payout, became hands off, and let the company slide to be almost worthless.

Or at my current company there is no care for quality since we're just going to launch a new generation of product in 3 years. We're doing things here that will CAUSE a ground up rewrite. We're writing code to rely on undocumented features of the mcu that the vendor have said 'we cannot guarantee it will always behave this way' But our management cycles out every 3-4 years. Just enough time to kill the old, champion the new, get their bonus, and move on. Bonuses are handed out every January. Like clockwork there's between 3-7 directors and above who either get promoted or leave in February.

I don't see how any business person would see any value in engineering that extends past their tenure. They see value in launching/delivering/selling, and are rolling the dice that we're JUST able to not cause a nation wide outage or brick every device.

So AI is great... as long as I've 'gotten mine' before it explodes

sangeeth96 2 days ago|||
What do the spends for AI/LLM services look like per person? Do you track any dev/AI metrics related to how the usage is in the company?
oompydoompy74 2 days ago||
Did you read the full article?
colesantiago 2 days ago||
Of course I did, however:

> Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that".

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html