Posted by coloneltcb 10/28/2025
They being the oligarchs, the goal being to privatize public services, consolidate control and power, own the information space, or make it such a mess no one knows the truth anymore, idea popularity trumps facts
Moldova elected a pro-EU instead of sliding into alt-right territory. So to declare it (or anything) never fails is never going to be true. Looking to Russia as an example, what hasn't been failing? They went from being #2 to being a a pariah state
It's a failure of lost opportunity for the oligarchs too. Authoritarian regimes have a much lower upper-limit that holds everyone and everything back
Took me a while after that to accept it wasn't just an aberration.
My perspective now is that it continues a pattern of behaviour also seen with his response to Top Gear; it's just that when he reacted to Top Gear, I had an even lower regard for Top Gear…
> I don't know that "evil" is a really useful word to fling around, full stop, because it's actually quite subjective.
I agree. FWIW, I think "evil" is mostly a strong overlap with dark triad personality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad
But clearly the word is used far more broadly, and it does not reliably keep any meaning from one person to the next.
It's a classic case of delusions of grandeur, his story will be told, but not in the way he hopes. We just need to tank few more shit years I guess.
Grokipedia:
The Biden–Ukraine controversy pertains to allegations that U.S. Vice President Joe Biden conditioned $1 billion in loan guarantees on the Ukrainian government's dismissal of Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin in March 2016, purportedly to obstruct an ongoing investigation into Burisma Holdings, the Ukrainian energy firm where Biden's son, Robert Hunter Biden, served as a board member receiving substantial compensation since May 2014.[1][2] Shokin, whose office had pursued corruption charges against Burisma's founder Mykola Zlochevsky—including probes into illicit asset acquisition and bribery—publicly stated that his removal derailed these efforts, coinciding with Hunter Biden's role amid the company's efforts to mitigate regulatory pressures.[2][3]
Wikipedia:
The Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory is a series of false allegations that Joe Biden, while he was vice president of the United States, improperly withheld a loan guarantee and took a bribe to pressure Ukraine into firing prosecutor general Viktor Shokin to prevent a corruption investigation of Ukrainian gas company Burisma and to protect his son Hunter Biden, who was on the Burisma board.[1] As part of efforts by Donald Trump[2] and his campaign in the Trump–Ukraine scandal, which led to Trump's first impeachment, these falsehoods were spread in an attempt to damage Joe Biden's reputation and chances during the 2020 presidential campaign, and later in an effort to impeach him.[3]
Grokipedia:
Gamergate was a grassroots online movement that emerged in August 2014, primarily focused on exposing conflicts of interest and lack of transparency in video game journalism, initiated by a blog post detailing the romantic involvement of indie developer Zoë Quinn with journalists who covered her work without disclosure.[1] The controversy began when Eron Gjoni, Quinn's ex-boyfriend, published "The Zoe Post," accusing her of infidelity with multiple individuals, including Kotaku journalist Nathan Grayson, whose article on Quinn's game Depression Quest omitted any mention of their prior personal contact.[2] This revelation highlighted broader patterns of undisclosed relationships and coordinated industry practices, such as private mailing lists among journalists, fueling demands for ethical reforms like mandatory disclosure policies.
Wikipedia:
Gamergate or GamerGate (GG)[1] was a loosely organized misogynistic online harassment campaign motivated by a right-wing backlash against feminism, diversity, and progressivism in video game culture.[2][3][4] It was conducted using the hashtag "#Gamergate" primarily in 2014 and 2015.[a] Gamergate targeted women in the video game industry, most notably feminist media critic Anita Sarkeesian and video game developers Zoë Quinn and Brianna Wu.[b]
Likewise, it's absurd to claim Gamergate was about "ethics in game journalism", even a cursory look at what the movement actually did makes it very clear that was never the focus.
It's not biased to look at what happened and report that people didn't do what they claimed to be doing.
Situation: there is one mediocre online crowdsourced encyclopedia
"The crowdsourced encyclopedia is untrustworthy? How ridiculous! We need to develop an AI-powered black-box that replaces everyone's Wikipedia use-cases!"
Soon: there is one mediocre online crowdsourced encyclopedia, and Elon Musk's website developed in response to crowdsourced encyclopedias
It's the Full Self Driving of online research. Who wouldn't trust it?We already have people reacting to completely incorrect AI-generated pages about their own lives: https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2025/10/28/Grokipedi...
I would say the same to someone who would boldly claim "reality has a conservative bias"
I quoted the joke verbatim. The performative pearl clutchers on HN are very entertaining.
By British standards, the US Democrats are dangerously radical libertarians owing to the fact the Democrats support even the slightest right to personal access to firearms. There's only a rounding error of support in the British policians for "republican" policies, i.e. ceasing to be a monarchy.
Musk is, in the UK, supporting a man who identifies as "Tommy Robinson" (real name "Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon"), and has called for Farage, the leader of the UK's populist far right party Reform, to stop leading that party after Farage distanced himself from Yaxley-Lennon.
(Keeping the [num]s in the quotations, those are the only citations that really matter).
On 10 May 2017, Robinson was charged with contempt of court, and convicted.[149][150][151] He had filmed inside Canterbury Crown Court and posted prejudicial statements calling the defendants "Muslim child rapists" while the jury was deliberating.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Robinson#Contempt_of_cou...Now, here's the thing: the bit in quotation marks was 100% true. But by saying so before they were actually convicted threatened to undermine the trial, and without a fair trial they could not be convicted. His actions made justice harder.
If you really care about such crimes, the last thing you should do is what Yaxley-Lennon actually did. The only outcome for which Yaxley-Lennon behaviour is coherent is where Yaxley-Lennon was engineering a riot either by causing their release or getting himself arrested. He got a riot for being arrested:
At a demonstration in London on 9 June, over 10,000 protesters blocked the roads around Trafalgar Square and some attacked police, injuring five officers.[198] Some demonstrators prevented a Muslim woman from driving a bus,[199] performed Nazi salutes, threw scaffolding, glass bottles, and street furniture at police, and damaged vehicles and buildings.[200]
- ibid.Regarding his libel that harmed a child:
The clip shows the victim, with his arm in a cast, being dragged to the floor by his neck as his attacker says "I'll drown you" and "what are you saying now" on a school playing field, while forcing water from a bottle into the victim's mouth. The video was filmed in a lunch break. The clip shows the victim walking away, without reacting, as the attacker and others can be heard continuing to verbally abuse him.[1]
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almondbury_Community_School_bu...And thats apart from the whole "kicked the officer in the head as he lay on the ground" and "entered the United States illegally [on a false passport]" convictions that Yaxley-Lennon has.
One child. Jamal Hijazi.
> Regarding his libel that harmed a child
The interview with the girl Jamal Hijazi hit in her spine with a hockey stick starts at 21:49, and is followed by discussions with staff at the school, a student he spat at, other staff discussing him knocking a kid out by throwing him against a wall, school records of him bringing a knife and screwdriver to school, photos of the other girl he hit from text messages with the girl’s mother, an interview with the head teacher of the time about Jamal Hijazi bullying other children, and more:
I think it’s fairly likely that Bailey, the boy that tackled Jamal Hijazi for saying something in that video - allegedly Jamal Hijazi said he would rape Bailey’s 9 year old sister - was telling the truth.
> Musk is, in the UK, supporting a man who identifies as "Tommy Robinson"
Good. Why aren’t you?
To quote the video description:
“Silenced” is a documentary that was originally made by Tommy Robinson."
You want to treat a video created and edited by the person who lost a libel case in this specific matter, as a valid source of truth about the matters of fact in this specific matter? Where the film itself constitutes a contempt of court for repeating a libel he had been found guilty of, resulting in him being sentenced to 18 months in prison?That is the "evidence" you bring?
I wouldn't even trust that any video meeting this description accurately represents the views of someone who is literally filmed speaking in it.
To quote another source:
But the founder of the English Defence League has been told he will face legal action after reposting a screenshot of a message from a mother claiming the youngster had bullied her daughter.
The mother later posted a message on Robinson’s page denying it was Jamal who had attacked her daughter.
- https://web.archive.org/web/20181202204147/https://www.indep...> Good. Why aren’t you?
The assorted list of crimes I just gave you, some of which threatened to set some rapists free without conviction.
Also some others I didn't mention, like libelling a journalist's partner by calling them a paedophile, something he later admitted was false. The journalist got this treatment from him after she had asked for his comment for a story she was writing about allegations that he had misused financial donations from his supporters. You know, silencing journalism, just like he accused the judicial system of doing, except he admitted using dishonesty to try to get silence, and was also seen to be dishonest with the libellous statements.
Anyway, here's what he and his former associates have to say on the matter of misused donations: https://web.archive.org/web/20210317214553/https://www.indep...
Lots of examples of him being less than honest — mortgage fraud, using someone else's passport, listing "Ireland" on his Irish passport — so why do you trust his take on anything?
As I said, the documentary contains the interview with the girl Jamal Hijazi hit in her spine with a hockey stick starts at 21:49, and is followed by discussions with staff at the school, a student he spat at, other staff discussing him knocking a kid out by throwing him against a wall, school records of him bringing a knife and screwdriver to school, photos of the other girl he hit from text messages with the girl’s mother, an interview with the head teacher of the time about Jamal Hijazi bullying other children.
You don't have to believe Robinson, you can believe everyone else. I haven't read the rest of your comment as you haven't bothered to read mine, so there's little point.
HN intended purpose is curious conversation, and phrases like this are not consistent with that ideal:
> I'd challenge someone to provide
> It's disturbing how indoctrinated in ... thought
> if you think ... you are truly indoctrinated
Please take a moment to read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future especially these ones:
Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."
Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.
Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes.
Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity.
No-one is going to accept your "challenge".
Yeah, it's too soon to be making claims about misinformation campaigns. The Grokpedia approach should be on the same footing as Wikipedia was when it was launched. Use it cautiously and wait for the apples-to-apples comparisons to come out.
I suspect your 2nd paragraph will be less well received here.
Can anyone give a coherent explanation of why the intention behind Grokipedia is... bad?
If one takes Musk at his word that his only intention is to provide an alternative Wikipedia, there is no problem; it is simply an alternative Wikipedia with a different editorial bias. If one believes that Musk is the modern day Joseph Goebbels, then his stated intention is likely false; Goebbels' strategy was to provide 60% truths and 40% lies, which is expressly facilitated with something like Wikipedia (Grokipedia in Musk's case). There are many possibilities in between the two which seem to suggest the likely fallibility of Grokipedia. All things considered, especially Musk's track record with the truth, it is reasonably assumed that this is a propaganda tool more than an education tool.
Please remember that you asked for "a coherent explanation" rather than something you will necessarily agree with. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who believes the opinions in this explanation.
"an alternative Wikipedia with a different editorial bias"
I think the stated goal is to reduce bias, not to just rotate it to another view. Of course some things are difficult to reduce to facts, but plenty of others are not.
This is not possible.
Flat earth may be a better example, since everyone HN user is hopefully a round-earther. Suppose you are talking to someone who thinks the earth is flat. Flat-earth belief used to be a joke, one or two decades ago, but now these debates actually happen with some regularity and the round-earther never wins. Do you think you could do better than every other round-earther? The proverb about playing chess with a pigeon is relevant here. What you call "objective reality", they all "round-earth bias".
Not exactly but kinda. I'd like to think it's less nihilistic than this makes it sound, at least. Here's a definition which I think is a good working one:
https://www.wordnik.com/words/bias
> A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.
To attempt to answer the question directly, there is still agreed truth, such as in the practice of law where a judge decides what facts are relevant to the case. In that context, the legal framework is, barring appeals, simply to accept the judge's "truth"; at least, once they've made their decision. To prevent that from devolving into madness, we train lawyers and judges to understand the meaning of certain legal terms so that they all have a similar understanding and can argue using terms which have an agreed-upon meaning. Still, there is much bias in this. If there wasn't, there would be no need for lawyers. The closest thing we get to objective truth is something like 1 + 1 = 2, but it's still agreed truth.
There are facts, but even the reporting of facts can be biased. Which facts you report, the context in which they're reported, the details that are included, the order in which they're reported. These choices have an effect on how the facts are interpreted; they are a bias. If I want to say, "The sky is blue and the Blue Man Group are entertainers," but you want to say, "Mars is called the red planet and Mars Attacks! is a movie," who is being less biased? Is a news article that reports, "Mars is called the red planet and the sky is blue," more or less biased than either of the other statements? Is one more objective than the other? How come the author didn't mention the tall smurfs if they're unbiased? Surely reporters aren't required to report all of the facts in every instance. How do they, unbiased, decide which facts are relevant to their report?
With the idea of "reducing bias", it is obvious that in order to verify that bias has been reduced, one must accurately measure "how much" bias there is. So how do you do that? Further, how do you do it in an unbiased way? How do you even know if you're doing it in an unbiased way without an unbiased measurement?
Another way to think about it is in terms of opinions. How do you express an opinion without bias? How do you express the same opinion with less or more bias? Is, "I don't care," less biased than, "I care a lot."? Is, "This makes me angry," more biased than, "I'm indifferent to this."? I would say they're equally biased. At least, I can't come up with a good reason to claim that indifference is not a bias. So, neutrality is a bias. I'm not sure what isn't a bias. I guess a bare fact. But, again, that doesn't mean the presentation of a fact is not without bias.
To give an example, it is a fact that Donald Trump is serving his second term as President. Do people often present that fact without bias? It's also a fact that Donald Trump has not served two consecutive terms as President. Is that presented without bias? Both of those decisions are biased: minimally, why would one present either of these facts in a given context?
Or an example of indifference: if someone says, "I don't care about Biden's capability to serve as President," does their indifference suggest a lack of bias? Is it more or less biased than, "I think it's bad that Biden is President given his apparent senility."? Is it more or less biased than, "I think it's good that Biden is President given his apparent senility."?
Biases are simply different or the same, neither lesser nor greater. I don't know how I could even go about measuring bias without introducing bias.
To the (neo-reactionaries), words are weapons and not conveyers of information. Extreme statements are, in many cases, better weapons than accurate ones, certainly better than moderate ones - they sieze the initiative, put the speaker on offense, put their opponent on their heels because the words are so unexpected and aggressive.
To people who think the words convey information, the words and behavior make no sense. You think you're having a political debate, but they are fighting a war to destroy you. It's like you listening to their signal, trying to decode what makes no sense, when they are really trying to electrocute you.
In a sense I don't fault people for not grokking that (ha ha) but I do fault them for seeing something is wrong, for all these years, and not making the intellectual effort to figure it out. It seems like almost nobody, national and world leaders and leading intellectuals included, has figured it out.
That is a great insult!