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Posted by jxmorris12 3 days ago

Tinkering is a way to acquire good taste(seated.ro)
447 points | 344 commentspage 3
kayodelycaon 3 days ago|
What exactly does "taste" mean in this context? Taste is about artistic quality. Aesthetics is generally a tertiary concern when it comes to software or hardware tinkering. That assumes it's a concern at all.

And while I'm talking about artistic quality on HN, I have to take some obligatory potshots at the website in question. When I have to use Safari's reader mode to see what you wrote, something has gone terribly wrong.

PantaloonFlames 3 days ago|
I know everyone is busy but the author provides the definition explicitly:

> And what I mean by taste here is simply the honed ability to distinguish mediocrity from excellence. This will be highly subjective, and not everyone’s taste will be the same, but that is the point, you should NOT have the same taste as someone else.

Concisely, discernment.

So your comment about “artistic quality” may apply. But from your ends sentence It seems you equate “artistic quality” to aesthetics , and I don’t think that’s what the author intended.

kayodelycaon 3 days ago||
That's on me, I missed that.

If you could indulge me a bit, the author in me wants to be pedantic about this. :)

In my defense, changing the definition of a term at the end of the article is begging to be misunderstood.

Rileyen 3 days ago||
I’m starting to believe that taste in code isn’t something you’re born with. It’s something you build after getting burned by your own mistakes again and again. I used to think some code just looked nice, but now I can explain why it works.

How did you develop your sense of taste in code? Any stories or lessons worth sharing?

gilbetron 2 days ago||
> I have come to understand that there are two kinds of people, those who do things only if it helps them achieve a goal, and those who do things just because.

There are two kinds of people, those that think it is clever to split people into just two groups, and everyone else.

Kinrany 3 days ago||
> This will be highly subjective, and not everyone’s taste will be the same, but that is the point, you should NOT have the same taste as someone else.

Lost me here. If tastes don't converge in the limit, then there's no point and you're just justifying a hobby.

hooskerdu 3 days ago|
Wrong. ;P
sowbug 3 days ago||
In my day, we'd say that as kids we'd take apart all our toys to see how they worked. We didn't necessarily call the end goal "taste"; it was to understand how things work, and to learn which results require which trade-offs.
adastrapa 2 days ago|
agreed, tinkering in my experience is either understanding how something works, or fixing something that is broken, or, building something new entirely (and in my mind all of these are hardware based) and usually involves disassembling things into their constituent components, whether or not you're supposed to. I also don't think tinkering is required for taste, I think being exposed to things, exploring things you're interested in, and questioning things is how you develop taste, which is also highly subjective.
citruscomputing 3 days ago||
This applies to fashion as well. Hackers should tinker with their clothes and jewelry more.
SchemaLoad 3 days ago|
My coworkers are shocked and confused that I own/use a sewing machine and see at as some legacy old timey thing. It's true that you certainly don't need to own one anymore and you won't save any money making your own clothes. But you can modify and make loads of custom cool stuff that are impossible to buy new.

I've got a few things I made that just bring a lot of joy knowing it's the exact thing I wanted which you can't buy, and couldn't justify paying someone else to make either.

tambourine_man 3 days ago||
> In fact, the last meaningful change to my config was 6 months ago.

I know that's supposed to convey restraint, but it seems too much fiddling to me. But I've been using Vim for decades, so I only touch my .vimrc when something breaks.

nonethewiser 2 days ago||
The author gives several examples of tinkering. Tweaking mouse sensitivity in FPS, installing a linux distro, experimenting with windows managers, changing mechanical keyboard caps etc.

Then he looks at one specific example of tinkering, the IDE, and sorts people as tinkerers based on that.

>There are plenty of people who still use the VSCode terminal as their default terminal, do not know what vim bindings are, GitHub desktop rather than the cli (at the very least). I’m not saying these are bad things necessarily, just that this should be the minimum, not the median.

Couldn't someone not tinker with an IDE and still tinker with other things? I mean clearly you dont have to tinker with everything that can possibly be tinkered with, right? What is it about the IDE that makes it necessary to tinker with?

It seems like this was the main motivation for the article and then it got a bit over-abstracted.

gnarlouse 3 days ago||
Reminds me of the Steve Jobs biography. He was a notorious tinkerer. He obsessed over the design of Macintosh, the NeXT step cube, and a bunch of other products.
al_borland 3 days ago||
He also valued taste a lot. It seemed like the worst insult Jobs could have for someone was to say they had no taste. Other insults may have used stronger language, but it always felt that him saying someone had no taste was to say they were worthless and he had no respect for them as a human being.
layer8 3 days ago||
I don’t think he tinkered much himself. He let others tinker until their output met his vision.
gnarlouse 3 days ago||
No he definitely tinkered. Yes, his primary tinkering mechanism was "having others execute his vision," but like if that's not tinkering then neither is editing config files like the article author mentions, because you're directing other peoples code into configuration.

There's one story from Macintosh era where he spent weeks harassing one engineer over the calculator app: "it looks too bloated, it looks afwul, these lines are terrible.." until the engineer got fed up and said "here this is the Macintosh Calculator App: Steve Edition. You get to pick your font, your layout, your color theme." And Steve sat there for hours literally tinkering on a calculator app until he got what he wanted.

He tried to get Paul Rand to change the colors on the NeXT logo--who promptly directed Steve to go have s*x with himself.

There was one point in the Apple Store's inception where they had basically reached done, and Steve decides that he didn't like a certain aspect of it, which was essentially going to require them to redo the entire thing. So he did, and they started from scratch. I think it might have been the Carrara marble floors but I can't remember for certain.

I'm not saying I have immense respect for the guy as a human being, but he was absolutely a notorious tinkerer--a complete menace of one.

ambicapter 3 days ago|
If anyone's wondering, author makes no attempt to demonstrate the veracity of the title, he just talks about being a tinkerer and why it's important to have taste nowadays, and lets the reader make the connection.

edit: I lied, the connection is that if you don't try many things, you won't know what's good and what's bad, and if you don't tinker, you won't try many things.

johnfn 3 days ago|
Ah yes, time for the daily article of the form "If you don't do <thing I frequently do>, you aren't <a good person>"
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