Top
Best
New

Posted by samfriedman 4 days ago

ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship(www.404media.co)
387 points | 343 commentspage 5
boston_clone 4 days ago|
All, I recommend you familiarize yourself with relevant state laws regarding your protections when assisting folks that are in immediate danger, e.g.: https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_161.200

I'm not a lawyer. So, if you have counsel on retainer and can stomach the bill, get clarity there first. But know that many states have such protections on the books.

The veil of immunity for DHS agents may soon be pierced. Apathy and ignorance are no longer acceptable for this situation.

hackingonempty 4 days ago||
You can be arrested and charged with a federal criminal law, 18 USC 111 "assaulting, resisting, or impeding certain officers or employees." The judge wont entertain your arguments about state law.

Fines and up to 8 years in a federal prison, 20 years if you use a deadly or dangerous weapon or actually inflict injury. You can get up to 15% off for good behavior, there is no parole.

boston_clone 4 days ago|||
Good points! Quite the cost / benefit analysis.

One on hand, I'd really love to punch a neo-nazi to interrupt them disappearing people to concentration camps. On the other, ooooh scary federal charges.

boston_clone 4 days ago|||
would a case like that go to a grand jury allowing for nullification to be on the table?
HaZeust 4 days ago|||
Sort of. You have to look up if your state has "necessity/choice-of-evils” defense and the standard defense-of-others rule - and what scopes it has.

I'll tell you this much, most judges will regard a circumstance for you to exert force against a peace officer - seeming or actual - as an extralegal action, and will very rarely affirm it as a protected action from the books. And even if you beat such a case, it ruins your life in the process. Their qualified immunity will remain longer than you can remain solvent.

boston_clone 4 days ago||
I asked a similar question elsewhere, but in states like Texas you can have a jury trial for just about any offense. Could federal charges go before a grand jury allowing nullification to be an option?
HaZeust 4 days ago||
If you want to take a bet that enough of your peers have varying degrees of distrust in police AND that they are aware of jury nullification in procedure or in principle, sure.
UniverseHacker 4 days ago||
We need states to step in and encourage local police to arrest federal agents breaking the law, and allow victims to sue in state courts.
bdangubic 4 days ago||
lovely ideas that no longer work in america given that SCOTUS is now a branch of a political party so all the suing leads to nothing but time-wasting unfortunately
UniverseHacker 4 days ago||
I am not a lawyer, but might it be possible to do entirely within a state using state law, in a way that fundamentally cannot be escalated to the supreme court because it does not involve federal law in any way? I expect this might require some changes to state laws to make it possible in the first place.
dragonwriter 4 days ago||
> I am not a lawyer, but might it be possible to do entirely within a state using state law, in a way that fundamentally cannot be escalated to the supreme court because it does not involve federal law in any way?

No, any arrests of federal agents notionally doing what they are assigned by the federal government will have an easy route for the federal government to raise justiciable questions of federal law regarding state interference with exercise of federal powers. The feds may not always have a good case—they won't always win in a fair court—but it's hard to imagine them not being able to actually get in the door with a federal court in that basis.

OTOH, when you have armed agents of the state attempting to forcibly arrest armed federal agents, you also have a very real risk of creating the kind of conflict that is resolved kinetically—and in a way that rapidly speaks out of control in scale—rather than in court.

kelseyfrog 4 days ago|
They can be trivially defeated with a 6 dollar product[1].

1. https://www.amazon.com/Custom-Personalized-Print-Bandana-Reu...

pavel_lishin 4 days ago||
Do... do you think ICE agents would come up to you and just scan the mask you clearly have pulled over your head?
gs17 4 days ago||
Worse, scanning the mask would guarantee no match to a citizen's face.
gruez 4 days ago||
https://xkcd.com/1105/