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Posted by izhak 3 days ago

How the cochlea computes (2024)(www.dissonances.blog)
477 points | 148 commentspage 2
javier_e06 2 days ago|
This is fascinating.

I know of vocoders in the military hardware that encode voices to resemble something more simple for compression (a low-tone male voice), smaller packets that take less bandwidth. This evolution of the ear to must also have evolved with our vocal chords and mouth to occupy available frequencies for transmission and reception for optimal communication.

The parallels with waveforms don't end there. Waveforms are also optimized for different terrains (urban, jungle).

Are languages organic waveforms optimized to ethnicity and terrain?

Cool article indeed.

tsoukase 2 days ago||
As the auditory associative cortex in parietal lobe discriminates frequencies, there must be some time-frequency transform between the ear and the brain. This must be discrete (as neurons fire in bursts and there is a finite frequency resolution capacity) and finite time.

The poor man's conversion of finite to equivalent infinite time is if you assume an infinite signal where the initial finite one is repeated infinately to the past and the future.

shannifin 2 days ago||
I've always thought the basilar membrane was a fascinating piece of biological engineering. Whether or not the difference between its behavior vs FT really matters depends on the context. Audio processing on a computer, FFT is often great. Trying to understand / model human sound perception, particularly in relation to time, FFT has weaknesses.
fennec-posix 2 days ago||
"It appears that human speech occupies a distinct time-frequency space. Some speculate that speech evolved to fill a time-frequency space that wasn’t yet occupied by other existing sounds."

I found this quite interesting, as I have noticed that I can detect voices in high-noise environments. E.g. HF Radio where noise is almost a constant if you don't use a digital mode.

rolph 2 days ago||
supplemental:

Neuroanatomy, Auditory Pathway

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK532311/

Cochlear nerve and central auditory pathways

https://www.britannica.com/science/ear/Cochlear-nerve-and-ce...

Molecular Aspects of the Development and Function of Auditory Neurons

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7796308/

rolph 3 days ago||
FT is frequency domain representation.

neural signaling by action potential, is also a representation of intensity by frequency.

the cochlea is where you can begin to talk about bio-FT phenomenon.

however the format "changes" along the signal path, whenever a synapse occurs.

gowld 3 days ago||
Why is there no box diagram for cochlea "between wavelet and Gabor" ?
anticensor 2 days ago|
Would look still too much like wavelet.
p0w3n3d 3 days ago||
Tbh I used to think that it does. For example, when playing higher notes, it's harder to hear the out-of-tune frequencies than on the lower notes.
fallingfrog 3 days ago||
I haven't noticed that effect, to be honest. Actually I think its the really low bass frequencies that are harder to tune- especially if you remove the harmonics and just leave the fundamental.

Are you perhaps experiencing some high frequency hearing loss?

jacquesm 3 days ago||
It's even more complex than that. The low notes are hard to tune because the fundamentals are very close to each other and you need to have super good hearing to match the beats, fortunately they sound for a long time so that helps. Missing fundamentals are a funny thing too, you might not be 'hearing' what you think you hear at all! The high notes are hard to tune because they sound very briefly (definitely on a piano) and even the slightest movement of the pin will change the pitch considerably.

In the middle range (say, A2 through A6) neither of these issues apply, so it is - by far - the easiest to tune.

TheOtherHobbes 3 days ago|||
See also, psychoacoustics. The ear doesn't just do frequency decomposition. It's not clear if it even does frequency decomposition. What actually happens is lot of perceptual modelling and relative amplitude masking which makes it possible to do real-time source separation.

Which is why we can hear individual instruments in a mix.

And this ability to separate sources can be trained. Just as pitch perception can be trained, with varying results from increased acuity up to full perfect pitch.

A component near the bottom of all that is range-based perception of consonance and dissonance, based on the relationships between beat frequencies and fundamentals.

Instead of a vanilla Fourier transform, frequencies are divided into multiple critical bands (q.v.) with different properties and effects.

What's interesting is that the critical bands seem to be dynamic, so they can be tuned to some extent depending on what's being heard.

Most audio theory has a vanilla EE take on all of this, with concepts like SNR, dynamic range, and frequency resolution.

But the experience of audio is hugely more complex. The brain-ear system is an intelligent system which actively classifies, models, and predicts sounds, speech, and music as they're being heard, at various perceptual levels, all in real time.

jacquesm 3 days ago||
Yes, indeed, to think about the ear as the thing that hears is already a huge error. The ear is - at best - a faulty transducer with its own unique way of turning air pressure variations into nerve impulses and what the brain does with those impulses is as much a part of hearing as the mechanics of the ear, just like a computer keyboard does not interpret your keystrokes, it just turns them into electrical signals.
fallingfrog 2 days ago|||
Welll. On guitar you cant really use the "matching the beats" or the thing where you play the 4th on the string below and make them sound in unison, because if you do that all the way up the neck your guitar will be tuned to Just intonation instead of equal interval intonation and certain chords will sound very bad. A series of perfect 4ths and a perfect 3rd does not add up to an octave. Its better to reference everything to the low e string and just kind of know where the pitches are supposed to land.

That's a side note, the rest of what you wrote was very informative!

philip-b 2 days ago||
No, it's vice versa. If two wind instruments play unison slightly out of tune from each other, it will be very noticeable. If the bass is slightly out of tune or mistakenly plays a different note a semitone up or down, it's easy to not notice it.
dboreham 2 days ago|
Spoiler: yes it does, but the author isn't familiar with how the term Fourier Transform is used in signal processing.
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