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Posted by toomanyrichies 11/1/2025

Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway(www.tomshardware.com)
371 points | 167 commentspage 2
markus_zhang 11/6/2025|
Thanks for sharing. Removed this company from my list.
amelius 11/6/2025|
Wouldn't a blacklist make more sense than a whitelist?
Sharlin 11/6/2025||
These days? Probably not.
bitwize 11/5/2025||
Probably a felony under the DMCA.

I'm reminded of when AWS us-east-1 went down and all the beds made by EightSleep (business model: Juicero for beds) became disabled. EightSleep put all the significant control for their beds in the cloud, doubtless because they couldn't or didn't know how to hire embedded engineers, and the only devs they could find were node.js flunkies who only knew how to do cloud. Looks like the makers of this vacuum did the same thing; they didn't know how or didn't want to build just enough smarts to do the localization and mapping itself, and said "fuck it, we'll do it in the cloud".

observationist 11/5/2025||
That's awfully generous. Forcing phone-home, remote control, data harvesting features to be always-on creates a huge amount of data that can be sold for a lot of money. It gets all the wrong people excited about investing and normalizing the level of intrusion into your privacy, with some faceless corporation harvesting gigabytes of data per month from the most intimate and vulnerable physical location in nearly anyone's life.
fron 11/6/2025|||
"Never attribute to incompetence that which can be attributed to malice" or something.

Clearly automatic beds have some degree of embedded software. The decision to put the controls in the cloud was certainly a conscious one.

goku12 11/6/2025||
> "Never attribute to incompetence that which can be attributed to malice" or something.

Isn't that the inverse of the Hanlon's razor? But I agree - the Occam's razor says that the inverse Hanlon's razor is most likely the case here.

cyberax 11/6/2025||
And what the company did is a felony under CFAA.
StillBored 11/6/2025||
Yes, I was thinking he needs an attorney to file suit against them for intentionally damaging his property, and then charge them for the 'repair' which would be the months he probably spent fixing it at a top grade engineering salary.
Sharlin 11/6/2025||
How did we let things get to this point? (A rhetorical question.)
m463 11/4/2025||
I block this nonsense before it gets to the cash register.
HiPhish 11/5/2025||
That's always a good idea, but how many people have the resources to research these details? First of all you have to be aware that this issue even exists. Then you have to scrape the corners of the internet for whether an appliance has any anti-features, because no manufacturer will ever write "collects unsolicited data about you, we will break the appliance if you refuse us your personal information" on the box. And finally you need to be able to afford the time and patience for the whole process.

I don't own a smart vacuum cleaner because the trouble is not worth it to me. However, I can see smart vacuum cleaners being very good for elderly or disabled people, or someone who has very limited free time and could let the robot clean the house on its own while the owner is out. It is really disgusting that scumbag manufacturers are exploiting those people.

pfdietz 11/6/2025||
The simplest way is to just not buy any IoT devices.
jacquesm 11/6/2025||
I don't. I take it home, open the package and return it as defective.

You see the same everywhere. Lawnmowers even. A goat is more user friendly.

xaxaxa123 11/6/2025||
[dead]
homeonthemtn 11/2/2025||
[flagged]
Sanzig 11/5/2025||
The owner did not hack the vacuum, he blocked the IP address on his network for the telemetry server. Same thing tons of people do with Pi-Hole DNS blocking, for example.

There's no sane world where it is defensible to remotely brick a device because it can't communicate with a telemetry server.

hulitu 11/6/2025|||
> There's no sane world where it is defensible to remotely brick a device because it can't communicate with a telemetry server.

Just today: Setting up an old smartphone: "Google assistant cannot work on this device." The only choice was "back". Had to search on the internet the solution: do not connect to wi-fi.

consp 11/6/2025|||
Not just devices. Same for apps. If you block the live monitoring features of some crash accumulators apps will not function. (Looking at you dexcom)
Zak 11/5/2025|||
> As the business running the servers of smart vacuums, if I saw an atypical device reporting in, without context, I too would kill that device.

If you want to block a device from accessing your servers because it's behaving in an odd way, such as this one that was contacting the update server but not the telemetry server, that's not entirely unreasonable. Sending it a command to modify its software to stop it from operating entirely is outrageous.

bigbadfeline 11/2/2025|||
> Why would they not be homogenous?

Why would a business have the power to decide what should and what shouldn't be homogeneous about the property of others? A transaction took place, property has legally changed hands and the former owner is exerting control over property that isn't theirs any more.

How about if the builder of your house comes into your home via an access route unknown to you, and starts rearranging where things are placed, or where you and your wife are placed, etc. in order to maintain homogeneous layout?

HiPhish 11/5/2025|||
> How about if the builder of your house comes into your home via an access route unknown to you, and starts rearranging where things are placed, or where you and your wife are placed, etc. in order to maintain homogeneous layout?

And if you complain he kicks you and your wife out of the house you bought. And if you dare to close off the backdoor he sends you to jail.

dylan604 11/5/2025||||
> How about if the builder of your house comes into your home via an access route unknown to you, and starts rearranging where things are placed, or where you and your wife are placed, etc. in order to maintain homogeneous layout?

I've seen this movie. Only, the twist was that the home was built 100+ years ago and the builder long since dead. The family living in the home currently had to resort to an exorcist.

Edit to say that the sarcasm is direct rebuttal with the preposterous nature of the hypothetical.

below43 11/5/2025|||
This is a cool article, and neat he got it working in the end.

One thing that is odd - if he blocked it calling home, it doesn't make sense that the kill code was issued remotely. It makes more sense that there is a line of code internally that kills the machine when it can't call home (which would be far less malicious).

jacquesm 11/6/2025|||
That would in many ways be even worse because it means that if the manufacturer were to go out of business all of the stuff they sold would stop working. That's more malicious, not less.
DaSHacka 11/6/2025|||
> It makes more sense that there is a line of code internally that kills the machine when it can't call home (which would be far less malicious).

Would it be? Whether the line of code is on the server or the device, what's the difference?

below43 11/6/2025|||
He implied they were remoting in after he blocked network traffic. It could easilyl be a standard exception handling approache when it can't call home and fetch latest settings etc. It might not be malicious - not defending the architecture, just think that there is an assumption of intent here.
foobarchu 11/6/2025||
Whether they remote into his device or it kills itself is irrelevant except that if it's local code that's even worse, as they've programmed in future obsolescence. That is indefensible, full stop, do not pass go.
fragmede 11/6/2025|||
If you bring me your silverware from the kitchen, or I go into your house to take it, what's the difference?

(CFAA charges)

DaSHacka 11/7/2025||
If you sell me silverware that, unless I share my eating habits with you, automatically disintegrates, or if you break in and steal them back, what truly is the difference?

It's funny you think a vacuum automatically bricking itself if you try to prevent its connection to the mothership is at all equivalent to someone choosing to give someone silverware.

fragmede 11/7/2025||
it's funny you read my comment in a way I did not write. User asked for an explanation of the difference between two fairly scenarios, so I provided one.

How has making up things that other people haven't said been working out for you?

DaSHacka 11/8/2025||
And yet you're unable to vocalize the contrast in my interpretation and your message, because I interpreted it exactly as you intended for it to be.

How's that backpedaling working out for you?

fragmede 11/9/2025||
Your comments would come off a lot better, and the conversation would be less shitty, if you'd just leave off the last sentence. It's pervasive across HN, so it's not just you, but just FYI. Just write out the whole comment, including the qwip at the end that you just can't help, and post it, and then edit the comment and delete it.

The contrast is that the vacuum isn't a sentient being, and so from there, you don't see the device reaching out, vs being told what to do, as being any different. I'm not a judge in overseeing a court case in your jurisdiction though, so no matter how much of a distinction I personally may think there is, is irrelevant.

DaSHacka 11/9/2025||
The last sentence of my comment was a parodic reversal of the last sentence of your previous comment.
ThePowerOfFuet 11/2/2025|||
The business has no right to remotely kill a device purchased by an end user.
whycome 11/5/2025|||
Yeah! Just degrade the battery life and user experience through forced updates so they are pushed to upgrade instead!
dylan604 11/5/2025||||
Did you accept the EULA?
SchemaLoad 11/5/2025|||
Consumer law comes above the EULA. A clause which states the company can remotely brick your hardware should be rendered invalid.
ptrl600 11/6/2025||||
OK, no _moral_ right. They could probably stick a clause in there about the vacuum eating my pets for nourishment, but...
dylan604 11/6/2025||
And now you've lost the plot or jumped the shark depending on which side of the pond you're on.
ptrl600 11/6/2025||
The point is it's good to complain
homeonthemtn 11/5/2025|||
Only sane comment in this thread
sidewndr46 11/5/2025|||
You don't own the software on the device, they do. If they choose to revoke that license, that is their choice.
chrismcb 11/5/2025|||
Well, no. You can't just revoke a license. As far as owning the software in the device, I works would argue that you do own a copy of it. I'm sure there is some buried tos claiming you just own a license to run it, and I know this is still being litigated. But when the average person purchases someone their expectation is that they've purchased it, not licensed it.
awefasdf 11/5/2025||||
I own the device and all of its storage. The exact state of that storage is my business and precisely no one else's.
sidewndr46 11/6/2025||
You can own as many storage devices as you wish, it doesn't give you the right to make copies of others works and use them without license.
kdmtctl 11/6/2025|||
In EU you have the right to use bundled software as long as you own the appliance. Not sure this is true for US.
sidewndr46 11/6/2025||
How does that work? What if the company licenses technology from company A to build product B, but the license is only good for 2 years? What happens 2 years after you buy product B?

Also doesn't Apple, Google, & other remove features from people's smartphones after release all the time in the EU?

kdmtctl 11/6/2025||
This is not legal to sell a finished product which has a license time bomb, I suppose.

Google and Apple can change the future set but they do not brick the device which was discussed and it works as advertised at the moment of purchase.

sidewndr46 11/6/2025||
What is the "future set" ?
kdmtctl 11/6/2025||
Typo. "Feature set", referring to your comment. Functions of software. Quoted below, source is widely available.

“The notion of goods with digital elements should refer to goods that incorporate or are inter-connected with digital content or a digital service in such a way that the absence of that digital content or digital service would prevent the goods from performing their functions.” — Recital 14, Directive (EU) 2019/771.

alvah 11/5/2025||
Does low-effort rage-bait belong on HN? aka, are you f**ing kidding?
CGamesPlay 11/6/2025||
Sounds like the "remote kill switch" was probably "log buffer was full", given that it comes back to life when used on a different network.
charcircuit 11/5/2025|
I suspect this is not the full story. Why would someone waste their time manually disabling a device? That makes me think that this device was doing something malicous to their servers, enough to trip an alert.
Telaneo 11/6/2025||
> Why would someone waste their time manually disabling a device?

What what makes you think it was manual?

> That makes me think that this device was doing something malicous to their servers, enough to trip an alert.

Sounds like a them problem, and not a problem that should affect the consumer (beyond losing functionality directly tied to the server, which bricking of any kind goes far beyond)

charcircuit 11/7/2025||
>What what makes you think it was manual?

The article said that someone from the company logged in to his device and edited a file on it to disable it. Even if it was automatic someone would manually have to write a script to login and edit a file.

Telaneo 11/7/2025||
> The article said that someone from the company logged in to his device and edited a file on it to disable it.

I can't find that in the article. Could you quote it?

The closest I got to finding this is:

> The manufacturer added a makeshift security protocol by omitting a crucial file, which caused it to disconnect soon after booting, but Harishankar easily bypassed it.

> deep in the logs of his non-functioning smart vacuum, he found a command with a timestamp that matched exactly the time the gadget stopped working. This was clearly a kill command

> So, why did the A11 work at the service center but refuse to run in his home? The technicians would reset the firmware on the smart vacuum, thus removing the kill code, and then connect it to an open network, making it run normally. But once it connected again to the network that had its telemetry servers blocked, it was bricked remotely because it couldn’t communicate with the manufacturer’s servers.

Which to me reads 'automatic script on the server tells device to delete file and reboot, causing it to brick', using the same kind of mechanism that an automatic firmware update would use, not 'human at company logs into device and tells it to brick'.

close04 11/6/2025|||
To "encourage" the owner to re-enable the connectivity. Google threatens to ban your Youtube account if you block ads. Companies will go out of their way to nudge, push, or force you to keep the data collection (or ads) gravy train going.
xupybd 11/5/2025|||
Not really. They probably flagged this as someone modifying the device and thought it could be someone reverse engineering it.
Mashimo 11/6/2025||
Might just be a "could not contact server for X days in a row" thing.