Sure, some people might argue that there are specialized tools for each of these functions. And that’s true. But the tradeoff is that you'd need to manage a lot more with individual services. With Nextcloud, you get a unified platform that might be good enough to run a company, even if it’s not very fast and some features might have bugs.
The AIO has addressed issues like update management and reliability, it been very good in my experience. You get a fully tested, ready-to-go package from Nextcloud.
That said, I wonder, if the platform were rewritten in a more performance-efficient language than PHP, with a simplified codebase and trimmed-down features, would it run faster? The UI could also be more polished (see Synology DSM web interface). The interface in Synology looks really nice!
That said there's an Owncloud version called Infinite Scale which is written in Go.[1] Honestly I tried to go that route but it's requirements are pretty opinionated (Ubuntu LTS 22.04 or 24.04 and lots of docker containers littering your system) but it looks like it's getting a lot of development.
Hm?
> This guide describes an installation of Infinite Scale based on Ubuntu LTS and docker compose. The underlying hardware of the server can be anything as listed below as long it meets the OS requirements defined in the Software Stack
https://doc.owncloud.com/ocis/next/depl-examples/ubuntu-comp...
The Software Stack section goes on to say it's just needs Docker, Docker Compose, shell access, and sudo.
Ubuntu and sudo are probably only mentioned because the guide walks you through installing docker and docker compose.
And I wish it was "containerized" but really it's "dockerized" as this thread demonstrates: https://central.owncloud.org/t/owncloud-docker-image-with-ro...
So yeah like I said in my original comment, for personal use it's just not right for me (because I choose not to use docker in my personal projects), but I hope it's right for other people because it looks like a killer app.
I'd definitely like to see what other options are available on other distros so I'll dig through their documentation more.
And yeah, trying to use podman with something that's based on docker compose is ... probably gonna give you some headaches, I'd guess. I don't particularly know the pitfalls but if you're expecting it to be transparently swappable, I don't think that's an owncloud issue.
I've seen some flame in this community, but damn this thread has just been a bunch of polite people helping correct the record.
You really consider 1 MB of JS too heavy for an application with hundreds of features? How exactly are developers supposed to fit an entire web app into that? Why does this minimalism suddenly apply only to JavaScript? Should every desktop app be under 1 MB too? Is Windows Calculator 30 MB binary also an offense to your principles?
What year is it, 2002? Even low-band 5G gives you 30–250 Mbps down. At those speeds, 20 MB of JS downloads in well under a second. So whats the math beihnd the 5–10 second figure? What about the cache? Is it turned off for you and you redownload the whole nextcloud from scratch every time?
Nextcloud is undeniably slow, but the real reasons show up in the profiler, not the network tab.
On paper. In practice, it can be worse than that.
I've spent the past year using a network called O2 here in the UK. Their 5G SA coverage depends a lot on low band (n28/700MHz) and had issues in places where you'd expect it to work well (London, for example). I've experienced sub 1Mbps speeds and even data failing outdoors more than once. I have a good phone, I'm in a city, and using what until a recent merger was the largest network in the country.
I know it's not like this everywhere or all the time, but for those working on sites, apps, etc, please don't assume good speeds are available.
I sometimes see +1Gbps with 100MHz of n78 (3500MHz), a frequency that wasn't used for any of the previous Gs, but as you are aware, 5G can also be deployed on low band and while more efficient, it can't do miracles. For example, networks here use 700MHz. A 10MHz slice of 700MHz seems to provide around 75Mbps on 4G and around 80Mbps on 5G under good conditions. It's better, but not a huge improvement.
The problem in my case is a lack of capacity. Not all sites have been upgraded to have faster backhaul or to broadcast the higher, faster frequencies they use for 5G, so I may end up using low band from a site further away... Low frequencies = less capacity to carry data. Have too many users using something with limited capacity and sometimes it will be too slow or not work at all. It's usually the network's fault as they're not upgrading/expanding/investing enough or fast enough... sometimes it's the local authority being difficult and blocking upgrades/new sites (and we also have the "5G = deadly waves" crowd here).
It shouldn't happen, but it does happen[0], and that's we shouldn't assume that a user - even in a developed country - will have signal or good speeds everywhere. Every network has weak spots, coverage inside buildings depends a lot on the materials used, large events can cause networks to slow down, etc. Other than trying to pick a better network, there's not much a user can do.
The less data we use to do something, the better it is for users.
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[0] Here's a 2022 article from BBC's technology editor complaining about her speeds: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-63798292
First and foremost, I agree with the meat of your comment.
But I wanted to point about your comment, that it DOES very much matter that apps meant to be transmitted over a remote connection are, indeed, as slim as possible.
You must be thinking about 5G on a city with good infrastructure, right?
I'm right now having a coffee on a road trip, with a 4G connection, and just loading this HN page took like 8~10 seconds. Imagine a bulky and bloated web app if I needed to quickly check a copy of my ID stored in NextCloud.
It's time we normalize testing network-bounded apps through low-bandwidth, high-latency network simulators.
Pretty much the same with JavaScript - modern engines are amazingly fast or at least they really not depend on amount of raw javascript feed to them.
Yes, I don't know, because it runs in the browser, yes, yes.
I'm extremely tempted to write a lightweight alternative. I'm thinking sourcehut [1] vs GitHub.
It works very well, has polished UI and uses very little resources. It also does a lot less than Nextcloud.
Nextcloud is an old product that inherit from Owncloud developed in php since 2010. It has extensibility at its core through the thousands of extensions available.
So yaaay compare it with source hut ...
> So yaaay compare it with source hut ...
I'm not saying that sourcehut is the same in any way, but I want the difference between GitHub and sourcehut to be the difference between NextCloud and alternative.
> Nextcloud is an old product that inherit from Owncloud developed in php since 2010.
Tough situation to be in, I don't envy it.
> It has extensibility at its core through the thousands of extensions available.
Sure, but I think for some limited use cases, something better could be imagined.
Nextcloud's client support is very good though and it has some great apps, I use PhoneTrack on road trips a lot
If every aspect of Nextcloud was as clean, quick and light-weight as PhoneTrack this world would be a different place. The interface is a little confusing but once I got the hang of it it's been awesome and there's just nothing like it. I use an old phone in my murse with PhoneTrack on it and that way if I leave it on the bus (again) I actually have a chance of finding it.
No $35/month subscription, and I'm not sharing my location data with some data aggregator (aside from Android of course).
It does not support Nextcloud apps (and I don't ever plan to). If you're looking for extensibility, it's not a great option for you (I've been feeling some "pressure" to add a plugin system, but I'm very concerned it'll compromise bewCloud's main value drivers — it's speed, low resource use, simplicity, and ease of use).
But now I think the right train of thought is there should be an webdav-based notes app that just looks in a notes folder for a combination of folders and text files, which it displays in a Nextcloud Notes-app kind of way. But that could be done and benefit people without it having to be your job to do it.
I wish there was a better client-side view/share app. I've been meaning to try Dawarich, I've heard it does this better.
82 / 86 requests 1,694 kB / 1,754 kB transferred 6,220 kB / 6,281 kB resources Finish: 11.73 s DOMContentLoaded: 1.07 s Load: 1.26 s
Radicale is a good calendar replacement. I'd rather have single-function apps at this point.
Does the AI run locally?
For anyone who might find it useful, here's a Reddit thread from 3 years ago on a few concerns about SeaFile I'd love to see revisited with some updated discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/wzdp2p/are_ther...
You can try it out easily here: https://peergos-demo.net
Our iOS app is still in the works still though.
Owncloud infinite scale might be the best option for a full featured file sync setup, as thats all it does.
Awesome experience, but you really have to stick to the happy path. Even with a super powerful CPU, Videoplayback was unusable, until a dedicated AMD GPU handled the transcodes. Even though it's Fiber To the home, sometimes Upload speeds collapse for no apparent reason and it's unusable.
All in all impressive such a massive FOSS project runs at all.
There are a lot of requests made in general, these can be good, bad or indifferent depending on the actual connection channels and configuration with the server itself. The pieces are too disconnected from each other... the NextCloud org has 350 repositories on Github. I'm frankly surprised it's more than 30 or so... it's literally 10x what would be a larger expectation... I'd rather deal with a crazy mono-repo at that point.
> On a clean page load [of nextcloud], you will be downloading about 15-20 MB of Javascript, which does compress down to about 4-5 MB in transit, but that is still a huge amount of Javascript. For context, I consider 1 MB of Javascript to be on the heavy side for a web page/app.
> …Yes, that Javascript will be cached in the browser for a while, but you will still be executing all of that on each visit to your Nextcloud instance, and that will take a long time due to the sheer amount of code your browser now has to execute on the page.
While Nextcloud may have a ~60% bigger JS payload, sounds like perhaps that could have been a bit of a misdirection/misdiagnosis, and it's really about performance characteristics of the JS rather than strictly payload size or number of lines of code executed.
On a Google Doc load chosen by whatever my browser location bar autocompleted, I get around twenty JS files, the two biggest are 1MB and 2MB compressed.
What frustrates me about modern web development is that everyone is focused on making it work much more than they are making it sure it works fast. Then when you go to push back, the response is always something like "we need to not spend time over-optimizing."
Sent this straight to the team slack haha.
maybe paying customers are getting a different/updated/tuned version of it. maybe not. but the only thing that keeps me using it is there isn't any real selfhosted alternatives.
why is it slow? if you just blink or take a breath, it touches the database. years ago i've tried to optimise it a bit and noticed that there are horrible amount of DB transactions there without any apparent reason.
also, the android client is so broken...
but the feeling is that the outdated or simply bad decisions aren't fixed or redesigned.
it could be made 100 times better.