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Posted by spf13 11/3/2025

Why engineers can't be rational about programming languages(spf13.com)
164 points | 200 commentspage 3
insane_dreamer 11/4/2025|
> “Everyone’s talking about Rust.” There it was: a 50 million dollar decision made on hype, about to be green lit.

I've seen this with React. You might have a great website working with some solid MVC framework + good'ol jQuery or equivalent, but no, the whole thing has to be rewritten from scratch to be an SPA in React, to "keep up".

phibz 11/4/2025||
Isn't senior leadership choosing languages or core technology, doing things wrong? Shouldn't senior leadership focus on outlining the business opportunities, value case, and requirements for their solution?
lproven 11/4/2025|
No?

The point of the article is that if you delegate this choice, the people to whom you delegate it will get it wrong.

egorelik 11/3/2025||
The only conclusion I can draw from this is that some engineers are not great at arguing the merits and challenges of a programming language. GC vs non-GC should be one of the first and most straightforward decisions made when picking a language. It's hard to tell in this situation given that there are no concrete examples of what the arguments were, but if one is seriously considering Go for a domain, then they don't actually need the complexity a non-GC language brings.

If anything, maybe this says there is room for a Rust-like GC'd language.

lproven 11/4/2025|
The only conclusion I can draw from your comment is that you wanted to provide an example of the sort of flawed reasoning that the article is in fact discussing.
antfarm 11/3/2025||
For anyone interested: Takkle was "a social networking and media site geared toward those involved in high school sports: players, coaches, and fans" as per this article from 2006, aptly titled "Takkle.com, social networking for jocks".

[https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/takkle-com-s...]

dzonga 11/4/2025||
> “which language is best?” we need to ask “what is this language going to cost us?” Not just in salaries, but in velocity, in technical debt, in hiring difficulty, in operational complexity, in every dimension that actually determines whether you survive.

then boom suddenly php, ruby & java are pragmatic choices in economic sense for business systems. same as c++ for hedge funds & video games etc.

js-j 11/4/2025||
For some time now, I've come to the conclusion that the choice of a programming language is of crucial importance to the success of a project: programmers are inspired by beautiful tech solutions, that's what motivates them to give the best of themselves. PHP has never been such a piece of technology for me, whereas Perl used to be...
pjmlp 11/5/2025||
Very well put article, every single time I see a session like that I also ask about the business cost evaluation, especially regarding rewrites.

Have they done in math in FTE salaries, times the estimated effort in days, mappend into money, and what is the expectation of ROI in that investment.

tailrecursion 11/3/2025||
The story at the beginning proves that choosing your VP is significantly more important than choosing a PL.
ChicagoDave 11/4/2025||
I’d have agreed with this three years ago, but GenAI has made me language agnostic. I’ve created apps with Typescript, Rust, Python, and completely open on more even though my background is 20 years in C#.
Freedom2 11/3/2025|
I don't agree with the title - I've seen many engineers be rational and pragmatic about programming languages. I'm not entirely sure why the author decided to lead with such a charged headline.
Balinares 11/3/2025||
I've seen a lot more engineers self-describe as rational and pragmatic than I've seen act like it. This here website is quite a marvelous zoological gallery in that respect. (Love you folks, you are messy complicated humans the lot of you and I wish I could cogently convey how good it is to embrace that instead of pretending elsewise.)

We do pick tools in good part based on how we feel about them (especially engineers who believe themselves beings of pure rationality, tbh), and I think that's in fact okay; how we feel doesn't come from nowhere, it's informed by decades of experience often acquired the hard way. But it's still a squishy metric that can only be trusted to a point, and being aware of how this sort of decision making occurs, in yourself and in others, is highly valuable IMO.

aj_hackman 11/4/2025||
90% of the time I've witnessed someone assert themselves to have some positive trait, they've espoused the complete opposite... especially when it came to morality or rationality. If someone tells you they're a logical person, they're probably highly limited in their thinking. If someone tells you they're a good person, run.
hunterpayne 11/3/2025|||
Because his first experience with this debate was forcing PHP on engineers who knew that would be a bad choice. No matter what you are doing, PHP isn't the right choice for it if more than 1 person will ever use or depend upon the software.

PS I've seen PHP destroy billions in value in my career. It and Brainfuck are the only 2 languages you should never use to make software for other people. Every other language has a core use it is good at. JS in the browser, Python for scripting, Java when you need good observability and 3rd party libraries, etc...

necovek 11/4/2025|||
I've used PHP early in my career (around the time PHP 5 came about), and I was never a fan, but to claim that you can't built successful products with it is simply crazy: look at Facebook, Wordpress just to name the two!

And similarly, "Python for scripting" (Instagram?)... It's the effectiveness you achieve with it that is perfect for many new projects, based on language itself (dynamism, introspectiveness, readability...) and rich standard library and ecosystem.

I'd say you are not looking objectively at language choices despite the evidence being there in plain sight to counter the claims you are making.

kerblang 11/3/2025|||
> Because his first experience with this debate was forcing PHP on engineers who knew that would be a bad choice

Ummm... No, I think it was about forcing Perl on engineers who had been using PHP.

wvenable 11/3/2025|||
Probably should be "management" can't be rational about programming languages because that's what it's about. The article isn't talking about a group of engineers coming together to decide on a platform, instead it's about a choice being thrust upon from from up high. That management is also an engineer but that's not really the key point.
1718627440 11/3/2025||
Why would management care about tools?
necovek 11/4/2025|||
In the first example, they didn't and recruited a CTO who made a tool choice that arguably killed the business (maybe it still ends the same with PHP, minus the experience of building a nicely architected system in Perl: what-ifs all around).

Management does need to care to ensure they hire people who will make the right choices (which is a careful balancing act of investment vs returns) if they don't trust themselves to do it.

wvenable 11/4/2025||
CTO is management.
hunterpayne 11/3/2025|||
Exactly, when they do its a sign of bad management. The only case I can think of when this isn't true would be the difficulty in finding people willing to use/work in that language. But in all but the most obscure languages, this is probably given too much weight by management.
Jtsummers 11/3/2025||
> I'm not entirely sure why the author decided to lead with such a charged headline.

It got people to click the link to their think piece.

esafak 11/3/2025|||
I did not. I read the comments and still found little reason to check the article.
IAmBroom 11/3/2025|||
Reason #9 will shock you!
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