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Posted by mwheeler 14 hours ago

Reviving Classic Unix Games: A 20-Year Journey Through Software Archaeology(vejeta.com)
134 points | 51 comments
drob518 4 hours ago|
We’re hitting that point in time when key figures in the history of early computing are starting to leave us. It’s nice to see these early applications preserved. If we can get this code off old disks and tapes and into modern cloud-based repositories, with open source licenses, we might be able to enjoy these programs for a long time, whether for actual amusement or just historical significance. The digital age is both a blessing and a curse in that so much information can be moved around so easily, but a lot of it is locked away on obsolete media that will eventually decay.
inciampati 12 hours ago||
Love that a term from Vinge has almost entered our lexicon. The author is a "programmer archeologist".
billfruit 12 hours ago||
There use to be a set of games which were available for SunOS and may be Solaris, including a flight simulator with wired frame graphics, and Sun even had released a book about these games at that time(may be early 1990's).

Are they also covered by these? Anyone remember a flight simulator with wireframe graphics available Unices?

vejeta 9 hours ago||
Hello, I am the author of the article. I did not know of those games you mention at the time. We used to play conquer at the AIX (Unix) that our computer labs provided for all the alumni. I have only tracked conquer's authors to obtain their permissions to relicense and preserve in a way that others could study and build upon.
anthk 10 hours ago||
ACM, Sabre?
mongol 11 hours ago||
When I was a kid, early 80s, my mom's job had bought some IBM computer. Not PCs, but some kind of large computer in a room to help with accounting / book keeping. Terminals with green text screens were attached to this computer. They had text based menus, and somewhere in this menu system, there were games. One game was a kind of horse race I remember, where digits were racing from left to right on the screen. Another was probably a lunar lander, but memory is lacking. Can someone tell from this description what kind of computer this was, and what OS it was running?
fer 10 hours ago||
System/34 or System/36, the game was RACE. Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYRuTHz-wwk
mongol 10 hours ago||
Yes, that is how it looked like! Such nostalgia
sertyu 10 hours ago|||
Unfamiliar but probably System/34 or System/36 running SSP (System Support Program) with IBM 5250 series terminals.

Unsure about the games. Here’s an early lunar lander:

https://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~storer/LunarLander/LunarLander....

Another Lunar version:

https://undefinedvalue.com/lunar-for-c-and-rust.html

System/36 guide:

https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_ibmsystem3rogrammingWi...

Possible source for games in David H. Ahl in his book 101 BASIC Computer Games.

ThrowawayR2 11 hours ago||
IBM System/34, System/36, or System/38 perhaps? Those are IBM's minicomputers available in that timeframe.
cbm-vic-20 12 hours ago||
How were the contributions by Richard Caley handled? "The legal reality was harsh: Richard’s contributions to Conquer couldn’t be relicensed. The university couldn’t help contact heirs due to privacy laws."
vejeta 9 hours ago||
Author of the article here. Richard's contributions remain in the codebase but under original terms. We documented his legacy as a person, and that is explained in the README of the repository.
justin66 11 hours ago||
The notion that everything had to be relicensed under the GPL “so it could be properly preserved and packaged for modern Linux distributions” seems pretty silly.
Tepix 9 hours ago||
Only if you haven‘t dealt with licenses. This software was published without a license.
justin66 2 hours ago||||
It's a wonder the software's authors, users, and distributors have evaded dire legal consequences all these decades.
spot 13 hours ago||
Before xtrek and eventually netrek, there was hunt: https://techtinkering.com/2009/08/11/my-top-10-classic-text-... you might think that games back then were slow but this one was fast paced mayhem. using the vi commands was perfect.
hylaride 6 hours ago||
Oh god, netrek was addictive. At 12-14, I played it a lot on the HP-UX machines when my mom had to work weekends and drag my brother and I along (very willingly) in the mid 1990s. The early internet was also accessible to us.
Tepix 9 hours ago||
Talking about netrek, I read that it originated in a game called Empire on PLATO (not the one played on rec.games.empire). I wonder if this game be played somehow these days?

Btw the game hunt with destructable regrowing mazes is still being distributed in the bsd-games package today.

wombatpm 4 hours ago||
Empire was a blast. Top players instinctively knew how ships would move and would key in commands much much faster than the display would update. One second you are in orbit, the next refresh you are dead and the planet has been taken.

Empire was responsible for a lot of 5th year seniors back in the 80.

spacedcowboy 14 hours ago||
I remember something similar from my university days (30-odd years ago) called Empire. This still lives on here [1]. There was many a map printed out on the laser printer (and my prof wanted to know why his budget was so much higher that term...) back in the day. We played against other colleges of the university of Londone over JANet, and I ran the server on a DECstation 5000, somewhat less powerful than my watch these days...

Empire has the concept of a "Bureaucratic Time Unit" which recovered to its maximum in real time every update, and was based on how many civilians (as opposed to military) you had in your capital city. I always thought that was a pretty cool idea - every operation took X BTU's, so you couldn't log on at 3am and utterly nuke another country before they woke up. 3am was still the popular time to start nuking another country, of course :)

I still remember waking up (I splurged on a 1200-baud modem rather than the standard 300-baud one) in the morning, logging in on my Atari ST before I went to college, and seeing "You have 2000 telegrams...". Oh crap. You got telegrams for lots of reasons, but one of those reasons was an attack. It was all part of the "All the news that's fit to print!" messaging system. Just like 'Diplomacy', half the game was in the interaction between people, alliances and betrayals, not just getting stat X to 100% ... [1]: http://www.wolfpackempire.com

cbm-vic-20 13 hours ago||
The creator of this game is a frequent contributor on this site.

https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=WalterBright

mmooss 3 hours ago|||
Is that the same Empire? The version I've seen has no BTUs. Just basics: random continents, cities produce military units, units require different numbers of turns for production, etc.

However, I saw a modern-ish decendent called Empire Deluxe, so maybe the original had more features?

spacedcowboy 13 hours ago|||
TIL :)
vejeta 7 hours ago|||
LOL, part of the charm of those games is what you mention, the plots behind the movements with the messages between the nations, the double games to make the other thing you were allied with someone, when in every turn maybe...you were sending troops by boat from another direction. People could enter deep into the roleplaying on those messages and that could be really fun. That was my experience with conquer :P

PS: I am the author of the article, and although I reached the university when the modems were being phased out (1994 or so), we played a lot to it while we were in the computer labs, instead of studying.

Razengan 7 hours ago||
"Play-by-Mail" games could make a comeback now:

An AI could maintain the state of a world in its "mind", take text commands from a bunch of players, and update the state the next day.

tahoemph999 12 hours ago||
Comp.souces.games was a source of delight and pain as I learned how to port software from sizeof(int) == sizeof(void *) architectures.
shorden 10 hours ago||
The discussion of Richard Caley was warming, reminded me of Izchak Miller a little bit.
basedrum 12 hours ago|
Conquer was an amazing game, I hope someone puts it online so I can pay again!
vejeta 9 hours ago|
I am the author of the article. I have put a quick prototype to see how a game like this could be played from the web. And it is certainly possible. I used "ttyd" as a bridge from a shell program and show the output through websockets with apache. You can check the code in https://github.com/vejeta/conquer-web.

The game is playable through the web, with the original curses interface, you can login with your nation and play, but I want the experiment to be more "curated" by providing a proper login system, to avoid any kind of attack, although the process running conquer is in an isolated docker container. Also I want to provide the help system in the web, so people can learn to play without having to login into conquer first.

I will make it free, or anyone will be able to host their own instance. If you want to tinker, what I have it is already in https://github.com/vejeta/conquer-web

Firehawke 4 hours ago||
Something like what's done with https://www.hardfought.org/nethack/ maybe?
vejeta 3 hours ago||
The opposite, from what I read in that page, they provide instructions to connect from the shell.

Conquer-web looks for avoiding the "problem" to connect to a server with putty/telnet or ssh through a terminal. You can just connect from the web.

I can´t provide a URL to try, because I want to provide some security measures, and create a proper world, before opening something like this, but the code is there.

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