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Posted by nooks 7 hours ago

1D Conway's Life glider found, 3.7B cells long(conwaylife.com)
315 points | 114 comments
flufluflufluffy 7 hours ago|
Me: oh cool, this is interesting, I don’t quite understand what exactly that means, let me read the thread to learn more…

The thread: > Replacing ECCA1 by version with step after the direction change could save something like 1% of the ecca1 bits size. Compiling agnosticized program instead of fixed lane program by ecca1 could save something like 1% as well (just guesses). Build of smaller ECCA1 would shorten binary portion, but it would be hardly seen in the ship size.

> Using agnosticized recipe in the fuse portion would definitely reduce its size. Better cordership seed and better salvo for gpse90 would help…

Dear lord I had no idea there’s this much jargon in the game of life community. Gonna be reading the wiki for hours

falcor84 6 hours ago||
Their free book "Conway’s Game of Life: Mathematics and Construction" is a great starting point - https://conwaylife.com/book/conway_life_book.pdf
IncreasePosts 6 hours ago|||
Once a year or so I find myself on those forums and I'm always astounded how many people there are that dedicate massive amounts of time and brain power to this.
tombert 3 hours ago|||
I think it appeals to the same itch that languages like Brainfuck scratch.

There's something exceedingly interesting about how you can model complexity with something extremely simple. Brainfuck is fun because it forces you to think extremely low level, because ultimately it is basically just a raw implementation of a Turing machine. I wouldn't want to write a big program in it, but it is fun to think about how you might express a complicated algorithm with it.

Similarly with CGOL, it is really interesting to see how far you can stretch really simple rules into something really complex.

I've written CGOL dozens of times, it's a common project that I do to "break in" a language I've learned, since it's not completely trivial but it's simple enough to not be frustrating, and I completely understand why math/computability-theory folks find it something to dedicate brain power to.

__del__ 2 hours ago||
for those who think brainfuck is too pedestrian, have a browse through the esolang wiki:

https://esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list

tombert 2 hours ago|||
I have no idea how I'd be able to pitch this to a university (or even who I could pitch it to), but I would absolutely love to teach a computability course using Brainfuck as the language, just to really show students how low-level logic can be.

I would probably need to find a similar language with a different name though.

jachee 1 hour ago||
How about Assembly?
tombert 1 hour ago||
Assembly is higher level logic than brainfuck, especially on modern chips. You have built in instructions for arithmetic and conditionals/branches and you can allocate memory and point to it.

You don’t really get any of that with brainfuck. You have a theoretical tape and counters and that’s basically it.

optimalsolver 2 hours ago||||
StupidStackLanguage is by far my favorite:

https://esolangs.org/wiki/StupidStackLanguage

d_silin 1 hour ago|||
Dear Lord.
DesiLurker 3 hours ago|||
if you find that fascinating then you'll be blown away by something called 'Wolfarm physics project'. it basically is trying to recreate entire physics using such baseline 'graph update' rules like 'Game of Life'. So far no predictions yet but very interesting.
chuckadams 3 hours ago||
Wolfram is kind of obsessed with cellular automata, even went and wrote a whole book about them titled "A New Kind of Science". The reception to it was a bit mixed. CA are Turing-complete, so yeah, you can compute anything with them, I'm just not sure that in itself leads to any greater Revealed Truths. Does make for some fun visualizations though.
azeirah 2 hours ago|||
A new kind of science is one of my favorite books, I read the entirety of the book during a dreadful vacation when I was 19 or 20 on an iPod touch.

It goes much beyond just cellular automata, the thousand pages or so all seem to drive down the same few points:

- "I, Stephen Wolfram, am an unprecedented genius" (not my favorite part of the book) - Simple rules lead to complexity when iterated upon - The invention of field of computation is as big and important of an invention as the field of mathematics

The last one is less explicit, but it's what I took away from it. Computation is of course part of mathematics, but it is a kind of "live" mathematics. Executable mathematics.

Super cool book and absolutely worth reading if you're into this kind of thing.

_alternator_ 1 hour ago||
I would give the same review, without seeing any of this as a positive. NKS was bloviating, grandiose, repetitive, and shallow. The fact that Wolfram himself didn’t show that CA were Turing complete when most theoretical computer scientists would say “it’s obvious, and not that interesting” kinda disproves his whole point about him being an under appreciated genius. Shrug.
jacquesm 2 hours ago|||
The question really ultimately resolves to whether the universe can be quantized at all levels or whether it is analog. If it is quantized I demand my 5 minutes with god, because I would see that as proof of all of this being a simulation. My lack of belief in such a being makes me hope that it is analog.
gaigalas 29 minutes ago|||
"It looks designed" means nothing. It could be our ignorance at play (we have a long proven track record of being ignorant about how things work).
culi 6 hours ago||
That's because it's not "game of life jargon", it's "cellular automata" jargon. Which is a field of math and comes along with a bunch of math jargon from related fields.
dooglius 6 hours ago|||
I searched several of these terms and they are all specifically jargon of game of life enthusiasts, (i.e. search reaults are all on fansites related to game of life) not general cellular automata jargon.
IAmBroom 3 hours ago||
I assume there's fanfic shipping of automata...

(If you don't recognize that use of "shipping", don't google it at work.)

permo-w 16 minutes ago||
short for relationship
pepinator 5 hours ago|||
mmmh I don't think so. I've read several papers on cellular automata and I don't recognize the terms
pkilgore 7 hours ago||
So it starts as a line, explodes into a huge 2D complex mess, and eventually, after many generation, returns to form the same 3.7B cells long line?

That's kind of amazing. I wish someone unpacked the units of abstraction/compilation that must surely exist here.

Surely they aren't developing this with 1 or 0 as the abstraction level!

layer8 7 hours ago||
See here: https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2040&start...

It’s also a relatively sparse line, as the number of live cells is less than a hundredth of the line’s extent: https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Unidimensional_spaceship_1

Retr0id 3 hours ago|||
I'm barely able to follow, but this part was fun:

> The third and fourth arms are extreme compression construction arms "ecca", where a programming language interpreter is created and individual incoming letters are interpreted as instructions specifying which phase (mod 2) and line of glider to emit.

H8crilA 6 hours ago||||
> Work started in 2016 and was completed on December 1, 2025.

Almost 10 years of development.

IAmBroom 3 hours ago||
Development, idle hacking when someone got bored at work; potato, potahto...
dkural 6 hours ago||||
Only about 1.5% of the human genome is protein coding. The human genome is about 3 billion base pairs long.
levocardia 5 hours ago||
Game of life indeed!
tantalor 6 hours ago|||
How many steps is the period? How far does it travel in that period? What direction does it go? Does it clean up after itself?
layer8 3 hours ago||
As the wiki page states, the period is 133076755768, and it moves by two cells in that time. Spaceships in GoL by definition don’t leave anything behind, they produce the exact same configuration, just shifted across the grid.

Given that it starts as a single line, it is symmetric in the axis implied by that line, and hence can’t possibly move diagonally or orthogonal to the line. Hence it moves in the direction of the line.

tantalor 3 hours ago||
Thanks!

I was a bit confused by that wiki page because it says "Direction Orthogonal" but like you said that can't be.

layer8 2 hours ago||
Yeah, “orthogonal” here just means “not diagonal”. Since GoL configurations don’t have a distinguished orientation (you can rotate and/or mirror them however you like), it wouldn’t make sense to specify up/down/left/right, at least not without first fixing an (arbitrary) orientation.
Romario77 6 hours ago||
[flagged]
tomtomtom777 5 hours ago|||
> I asked AI to explain it to me,

We all know how to do that, but that's not why were here.

alwa 5 hours ago|||
I’m not sure where our guidelines/norms are on this kind of thing, but I get the sense that most of us feel very capable of pasting articles into LLMs ourselves.

What we’re less capable of—and the reason we look to each other here instead—is distinguishing where the LLM’s errors or misinterpretations lie. The gross mistakes are often easy enough to spot, but the subtle misstatements get masked by its overconfidence.

Luckily for us, a lot of the same people actually doing the work on the stuff we care about tend to hang out around here. And often, they’re kind enough to duck in and share.

Thank you in any case for being upfront about it. It’s just that it’d be a shame and a real loss if the slop noise came to drown out the signal here.

minimaxir 5 hours ago||
dang (the head moderator of Hacker News) has said multiple times that HN prefers human-only comments.
wrs 6 hours ago||
Reading a long explanation on a GoL forum is a great way to experience what it’s like for my spouse to listen to my work conversations on Zoom. This jargon is fantastic.
ekjhgkejhgk 5 hours ago||
More or less like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMJk4y9NGvE

johanvts 3 hours ago||
It’s technobabble https://youtu.be/RXJKdh1KZ0w
tomcam 4 hours ago|||
However much karma this comment scored, it's underrated
IAmBroom 3 hours ago||
One exception: You are actually enthused about the topic you don't understand.

Your SO is likely only enthused to the degree that it affects your mood. "So this RISC architecture isn't compliant with ADA-1056 after all? And you were right all along? Wow, that's great, honey!"

7373737373 5 hours ago||
Two of the most fascinating open questions about the Game of Life are in my opinion:

1. What is the behavior of Conway's Game of Life when the initial position is random? Paraphrasing Boris Bukh's comment on the post linked below, the Game of Life supports self-replication and is Turing-complete, and therefore can support arbitrarily intelligent programs. So, will a random initial position (tend to) be filled with super-intelligent life forms, or will the chaos reign?

There exist uncountably infinitely many particular initial configurations out of which a random one may be drawn, which makes this more difficult (a particular infinite grid configuration can be represented as the binary digits (fractional part) of a real number, spiraling outwards from a given center coordinate cell: 0.0000... represents an empty infinite grid, 0.1111... a fully alive infinite grid).

https://mathoverflow.net/questions/132402/conways-game-of-li...

2. Relatedly, does a superstable configuration exist? One that continues to exist despite any possible external interference pattern on its border? Perhaps even an expanding one?

https://mathoverflow.net/questions/132687/is-there-any-super...

jameshart 1 hour ago||
‘Random’ configurations are going to be dominated by fixed scale noise of a general 50% density, which is going to have very common global evolutionary patterns - it’s almost homogenous so there’s little opportunity for interesting things to occur. You need to start with more scale free noise patterns, so there are more opportunities for global structures to emerge.
jmsgwd 3 hours ago|||
Your first question is discussed in the book The Recursive Universe by William Poundstone (1984).

One of the chapters asks "what is life?". It considers (and rejects) various options, and finally settles upon a definition based on Von Neumann-style self-replicating machines using blueprints and universal constructors, and explains why this is the most (only?) meaningful definition of life.

Later, it talks about how one would go about creating such a machine in Conway's Game of Life. When the book was written in 1984, no one had actually created one (they need to be very large, and computers weren't really powerful enough then). But in 2010 Andrew J. Wade created Gemini, the first successful self-replicating machine in GoL, which I believe meets the criteria - and hence is "alive" according to that definition (but only in the sense that, say, a simple bacteria is alive). And I think it works somewhat like how it was sketched out in the book.

Another chapter estimated how big (and how densely populated) a randomly-initialized hypothetical GoL universe would need to be in order for "life" (as defined earlier) to appear by chance. I don't recall the details - but the answer was mind-boggling big, and also very sparsely populated.

All that only gives you life though, not intelligence. But life (by this definition) has the potential to evolve through a process of natural selection to achieve higher levels of complexity and eventually intelligence, at least in theory.

Legend2440 5 hours ago|||
One problem is that, even though it is turing-complete, many practical operations are very difficult. Patterns tend towards chaos and they tend towards fading out, which are not good properties for useful computation. Simply moving information from one part of the grid to another requires complex structures like spaceships.

You might have better luck with other variants. Reversible cellular automata have a sort of 'conservation of mass' where cells act more like particles. Continuous cellular automata (like Lenia) have less chaotic behavior. Neural cellular automata can be trained with gradient descent.

Someone 4 hours ago||
> the Game of Life supports self-replication and is Turing-complete, and therefore can support arbitrarily intelligent programs.

I think people will disagree about whether “Turing-complete” is powerful enough for supporting intelligence but let’s assume it does.

> So, will a random initial position (tend to) be filled with super-intelligent life forms, or will the chaos reign?

Even if it doesn’t, it might take only one intelligent life form for the space to (eventually) get filled with it (the game of life doesn’t heave energy constraints that make it hard to travel over long distances, so I don’t see a reason why it wouldn’t. On the other hand, maybe my assumption that all intelligent life would want to expand is wrong), and in an infinite plane, it’s likely (¿certain?) one will exist.

On the other hand it’s likely more than one exists, and they might be able to exterminate each other.

MasterScrat 59 minutes ago||
> The start is slow as well, skipping to generation 42168M is recomended.

I picture entities playing with our universe, "it starts slow but check it out at the 13.8B mark"

eig 7 hours ago||
Is there a visualization of the glider in the thread? Would love to see how it evolves with one dimension being time.
pavel_lishin 7 hours ago||
My understanding (which could be wildly wrong, I only skimmed the thread) is that it's running in a standard 2-dimensional Game of Life grid, it just happens to start out as a 1x3.7B cell line.
IAmBroom 3 hours ago||
Pretty sure the GOL grid has more than one of those lines...
creatonez 3 hours ago|||
The best way to run it is in the software Golly. It has the HashLife algorithm needed to make it run fast enough to see it finish.
sebzim4500 7 hours ago||
After the first step it isn't 1D any more, so I don't think that visualization is possible
AlotOfReading 6 hours ago||
It's possible. It'd just be a 3D visualization and more importantly, stupendously huge. If each cell was a cubic millimeter, the shape would be 3700km wide, and stretch 1/3rd of the way to the moon.
ethmarks 2 hours ago|||
And if each cell was a cubic micrometer (which is a side length 200-300 times smaller than a pixel on a typical screen and 50-100 times thinner than a human hair), it'd still stretch 3.7 kilometers, which is about the length of a commercial airport runway.
nomel 4 hours ago|||
I'm having trouble finding a common image file format that has > 32bit resolution fields, fit it in.
adzm 7 hours ago||
Notably it only fits within a 1 cell high bounding box during at least one of its phases, not all.
syncsynchalt 6 hours ago|
I'm not a GoLtician myself but I don't think that would be possible under the "standard" rules anyway, except the trivial case of stasis/death.

I'm really charmed by the linked thread and all the passion and work it belies. Congrats to those involved!

pohl 5 hours ago||
Why do you think it would not be possible?
smallerize 5 hours ago||
To make a new cell "live" it must be neighbored by three live cells. And in 2d, a cell only has two neighbors.
paulmooreparks 2 hours ago|||
A 1d row of cells also affects nearby cells above and below the line. Consider a row of three cells:

https://parkscomputing.com/page/conways-game-of-life?boardSi...

That produces a spinner, because the empty cells above and below the 1d row have three live cells nearby.

smallerize 43 minutes ago||
Yes, which is not what adzm asked for.
pohl 4 hours ago||||
I see what you're saying, but I think it's a misunderstanding. 1D here only means that there's some state where the active cells are confined to one row — but one row within the ordinary 2D GoL plane. I'm sure the next iteration leaps off the line immediately. Search for "Blinker" here to imagine how it could start spreading off the line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life

smallerize 2 hours ago|||
Right, but that's not what adzm was asking about.
IAmBroom 3 hours ago|||
The GP understood that.
metalliqaz 4 hours ago|||
s/2d/1d/ right?
smallerize 3 hours ago||
Oh, right.
ekjhgkejhgk 6 hours ago||
I love it that there are people obsessed enough to spend their time on this and our society can support it.
NooneAtAll3 6 hours ago||
1D spaceship*

glider is a specific spaceship, but name for "moving pattern" is spaceship

rtkwe 5 hours ago|
Their own wiki points out they're sometimes used interchangably.

https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Spaceship

zkmon 4 hours ago|
In 1995, I received an email from someone named Conway asking me for more details about some silly thing I wrote in sci.math usenet group. Later I came to know more abut him as John Conway. Sadly I lost access to those emails.

Now, I'm unaware of this strange GoL world with amazing work people are doing. Sometimes I wonder which frontiers of progress, should we as human race be utilizing this amazing creative potential of the current generations.

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