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Posted by mips_avatar 9 hours ago

Everyone in Seattle hates AI(jonready.com)
660 points | 638 commentspage 6
CommenterPerson 4 hours ago|
The big revenue isn't going to come from improvements in coding, or writing better emails, or protein folding. It's going to come from more seductive and compelling ads (using all the data vacuumed up from your apps and your psychological profile).
j2kun 5 hours ago||
> like building an AI product made me part of the problem.

I don't see how the author can believe that quitting their job to work on an AI startup is NOT contributing to the problem of "AI products being shoved down everyone's throats."

Except, of course, that their financial bottom line depends on not believing this.

lukev 8 hours ago||
Interesting that this talks about people in tech who hate AI; it's true, tech seems actually fairly divided with respect to AI sentiment.

You know who's NOT divided? Everyone outside the tech/management world. Antipathy towards AI is extremely widespread.

IAmBroom 8 hours ago|
And yet there are multiple posts ITT (obviously from tech-oriented people) proclaiming that large swaths of the non-tech world love AI.

An opinion I've personally never encountered in the wild.

lukev 7 hours ago||
I think they exist as a "market segment" (i.e, there are people out there who will use AI), but in terms of how people talk about it, sentiment is overwhelmingly negative in most circles. Especially folks in the arts and humanities.

The only non-technical people I know who are excited about AI, as a group, are administrator/manager/consultant types.

coliveira 7 hours ago||
The problem with AI is that the media and the tech hype machine wants everyone to believe that it is more than a glorified randomized text generator. Yes, for many problems this is just what you need, but not to create reliable software. Somehow, they want everyone to go into a state of disbelief and agree that it is a superior intelligence or at least the clear sign of something of this sorts, and that we should stop everything we're doing right now to give more money and attention to this endeavor.
ispeaknumbers 9 hours ago||
this reads like an ad for your project
exmadscientist 9 hours ago||
It reads like it's AI-edited, which is deliciously ironic.

(Protip: if you're going to use em—dashes—everywhere, either learn to use them appropriately, or be prepared to be blasted for AI—ification of your writing.)

mips_avatar 9 hours ago|||
My creative writing teacher in college drilled the m dash into me. I can’t really write without them now
jasonjmcghee 9 hours ago||
I think the presence of em dashes is a very poor metric for determining if something is AI generated. I'm not sure why it's so popular.
exmadscientist 8 hours ago|||
For me it is that they are wrongly used in this piece. Em dashes as appositives have the feel of interruption—like this—and are to be used very sparingly. They're a big bump in the narrative's flow, and are to be used only when you want a big bump. Otherwise appositives should be set off with commas, when the appositive is critical to the narrative, or parentheses (for when it isn't). Clause changes are similar—the em dash is the biggest interruption. Colons have a sense of finality: you were building up to this: and now it is here. Semicolons are for when you really can't break two clauses into two sentences with a full stop; a full stop is better most of the time. Like this. And so full stops should be your default clause splice when you're revising.

Having em-dashes everywhere—but each one or pair is used correctly—smacks of AI writing—AI has figured out how to use them, what they're for, and when they fit—but has not figured out how to revise text so that the overall flow of the text and overall density of them is correct—that is, low, because they're heavy emphasis—real interruptions.

(Also the quirky three-point bullet list with a three-point recitation at the end with bolded leadoffs to each bullet point and a final punchy closer sentence is totally an AI thing too.)

But, hey, I guess I fit the stereotype!—I'm in Seattle and I hate AI, too.

twodave 8 hours ago|||
> Semicolons are for when you really can't break two clauses into two sentences with a full stop; a full stop is better most of the time.

IIRC (it's been a while) there are 2 cases where a semi-colon is acceptable. One is when connecting two closely-related independent clauses (i.e. they could be two complete sentences on their own, or joined by a conjunction). The other is when separating items in a list, when the items themselves contain commas.

IAmBroom 8 hours ago||||
OMG, beautifully described! (not sarcastic!)
wrs 8 hours ago||||
Ironically, years ago I fell into the habit of using too many non-interrupting em dashes because people thought semicolons were pretentious.

But introductory rhetorical questions? As sentence fragments? There I draw the line.

exmadscientist 8 hours ago|||
Also, for sheer delightful perversity, I ran the above comment through Copilot/ChatGPT and asked it to revise, and this is what I got. Note the text structuring and how it has changed! (And how my punctuation games are gone, but we expected that.)

>>>

For me, the issue is that they’re misused in this piece. Em dashes used as appositives carry the feel of interruption—like this—and should be employed sparingly. They create a jarring bump in the narrative’s flow, and that bump should only appear when you want it. Otherwise, appositives belong with commas (when they’re integral to the sentence) or parentheses (when they’re not). Clause breaks follow the same logic: the em dash is the strongest interruption. Colons convey a sense of arrival—you’ve been building up to this: and now it’s here. Semicolons are for those rare cases when two clauses can’t quite stand alone as separate sentences; most of the time, a full stop is cleaner. Like this. Which is why full stops should be your default splice when revising.

Sprinkling em dashes everywhere—even if each one is technically correct—feels like AI writing. The system has learned what they are, how they work, and when they fit, but it hasn’t learned how to revise for overall flow or density. The result is too many dashes, when the right number should be low, because they’re heavy emphasis—true interruptions.

(And yes, the quirky three-point bullet list with bolded openers and a punchy closer at the end is another hallmark of AI prose.)

But hey, I guess I fit the stereotype—I’m in Seattle, and I hate AI too.

NewsaHackO 8 hours ago||||
I think it's because it is difficult to actually add an em dash when writing with a keyboard (except I heard on Macs). So it's either they 1)memorized the em dash alt code, 2)had a keyboard shortcut for the key, or 3)are using the character map to insert it every time, all of which are a stretch for a random online post.
jasonjmcghee 7 hours ago||
You just type hyphen twice in many programs... Or on mobile you hold hyphen for a moment and choose em dash. I don't use it, but it's very easy to use.
jakubmazanec 8 hours ago||||
Related article posted here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46133941 explains it: "Within the A.I.’s training data, the em dash is more likely to appear in texts that have been marked as well-formed, high-quality prose. A.I. works by statistics. If this punctuation mark appears with increased frequency in high-quality writing, then one way to produce your own high-quality writing is to absolutely drench it with the punctuation mark in question. So now, no matter where it’s coming from or why, millions of people recognize the em dash as a sign of zero-effort, low-quality algorithmic slop."
mips_avatar 8 hours ago|||
So the funny thing is m dashes have always been a great trick to help your writing flow better. I guess gpt4o figured this out in RLHF and now it's everywhere
cosmicgadget 8 hours ago|||
Ironic? The author is working on an AI project.
npunt 8 hours ago||
The irony is that AI writing style is pretty off-putting, and the story itself was about people being put off by the author's AI project.
cosmicgadget 9 hours ago||
You mean Wanderfugl???
mips_avatar 8 hours ago||
An iconic name
redwood 7 hours ago||
He describes his startup as an ai-oriented map... to me that sounds amazing and totally at my alley. But then it's actually about trip planning... to me is too constrained and specific. What I would love is a map type experience that gives me an AI type interface for interesting things in any given area that might be near me and worth checking out.

And not just for travel by the way... I love just exploring maps and seeing a place.. I'd love to learn more about a place kind of like a mesh between Wikipedia and a map and AI could help

stego-tech 9 hours ago||
This isn’t just a Seattle thing, but I do think the outsized presence of specific employers there contributes to an outsized negativity around AI.

Look, good engineers just want to do good work. We want to use good tools to do good work, and I was an early proponent of using these tools in ways to help the business function better at PriorCo. But because I was on the wrong team (On-Prem), and because I didn’t use their chatbots constantly (I was already pitching agents before they were a defined thing, I just suck at vocabulary), I was ripe for being thrown out. That built a serious resentment towards the tooling for the actions of shitty humans.

I’m not alone in these feelings of resentment. There’s a lot of us, because instead of trusting engineers to do good work with good tools, a handful of rich fucks decided they knew technology better than the engineers building the fucking things.

captainkrtek 7 hours ago||
I've lived in Seattle my whole life, and have worked in tech for 12+ years now as a SWE.

I think the SEA and SF tech scenes are hard to differentiate perfectly in a HN comment. However, I think any "Seattle hates AI" has to do more with the incessant pushing of AI into all the tech spaces.

It's being claimed as the next major evolution of computing, while also being cited as reasons for layoffs. Sounds like a positive for some (rich people) and a negative for many other people.

It's being forced into new features of existing products, while adoption of said features is low. This feels like cult-like behavior where you must be in favor of AI in your products, or else you're considered a luddite.

I think the confusing thing to me is that things which are successful don't typically need to be touted so aggressively. I'm on the younger side and generally positive to developments in tech, but the spending and the CEO group-think around "AI all the things" doesn't sit well as being aligned with a naturally successful development. Also, maybe I'm just burned out on ads in podcasts for "is your workforce using Agentic AI to optimize ..."

rr808 7 hours ago||
We have these weekly rah rah AI meetings where we swap tips on what we've achieved with copilot and devin. Mostly crickets but everyone is talking with lots of enthusiasm. Its starting to get silly though now, most people can't even get the tools to do anything useful more than trivial things we used to see on stack overflow.
chimerasaurus 1 hour ago|
I’m never leaving Seattle.

iykyk

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