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Posted by mips_avatar 12/3/2025

Everyone in Seattle hates AI(jonready.com)
967 points | 1065 commentspage 6
Rochus 12/4/2025|
When companies mandate tools regardless of effectiveness and punish engineers for not using them, it's governance failure dressed as innovation.

The distinction between "real products" (solving actual problems) and "hype products" (exciting investors) reflects a pragmatic engineering perspective.

The situation seems less about AI itself and more about corporate dysfunction using AI as cover for broader organizational failures.

mgaunard 12/3/2025||
The only clear applications for AI in software engineering are for throwaway code, which interestingly enough isn't used in software engineering at all, or for when you're researching how to do something, for which it's not as reliable as reading the docs.

They should focus more on data engineering/science and other similar fields which is a lot more about those, but since there are often no tests there, that's a bit too risky.

etruong42 12/5/2025||
Those in power (such as those in the corporate managerial class) are trying to consolidate power by replacing humans with AI. There is the nice story of trying to improve overhead and increase efficiencies. There is also the ugly story of those in power trying to leverage AI for expert opinions even in the face of dissenting human experts.

For now, the human dissenters have a lot of leverage because AI still makes very clear and obvious errors sometimes, and it would be a political nightmare for a decision-maker to be accused of erring on the side of AI by recognized human experts who dissented. I wonder if there will come a time that AI opinion would be on par or even favored over the human expert because the human would be considered more fallible. This doesn't even have to be true - it only has to be sufficiently perceived to be sufficiently true.

ispeaknumbers 12/3/2025||
this reads like an ad for your project
exmadscientist 12/3/2025||
It reads like it's AI-edited, which is deliciously ironic.

(Protip: if you're going to use em—dashes—everywhere, either learn to use them appropriately, or be prepared to be blasted for AI—ification of your writing.)

mips_avatar 12/3/2025|||
My creative writing teacher in college drilled the m dash into me. I can’t really write without them now
jasonjmcghee 12/3/2025|||
I think the presence of em dashes is a very poor metric for determining if something is AI generated. I'm not sure why it's so popular.
exmadscientist 12/3/2025|||
For me it is that they are wrongly used in this piece. Em dashes as appositives have the feel of interruption—like this—and are to be used very sparingly. They're a big bump in the narrative's flow, and are to be used only when you want a big bump. Otherwise appositives should be set off with commas, when the appositive is critical to the narrative, or parentheses (for when it isn't). Clause changes are similar—the em dash is the biggest interruption. Colons have a sense of finality: you were building up to this: and now it is here. Semicolons are for when you really can't break two clauses into two sentences with a full stop; a full stop is better most of the time. Like this. And so full stops should be your default clause splice when you're revising.

Having em-dashes everywhere—but each one or pair is used correctly—smacks of AI writing—AI has figured out how to use them, what they're for, and when they fit—but has not figured out how to revise text so that the overall flow of the text and overall density of them is correct—that is, low, because they're heavy emphasis—real interruptions.

(Also the quirky three-point bullet list with a three-point recitation at the end with bolded leadoffs to each bullet point and a final punchy closer sentence is totally an AI thing too.)

But, hey, I guess I fit the stereotype!—I'm in Seattle and I hate AI, too.

twodave 12/3/2025|||
> Semicolons are for when you really can't break two clauses into two sentences with a full stop; a full stop is better most of the time.

IIRC (it's been a while) there are 2 cases where a semi-colon is acceptable. One is when connecting two closely-related independent clauses (i.e. they could be two complete sentences on their own, or joined by a conjunction). The other is when separating items in a list, when the items themselves contain commas.

IAmBroom 12/3/2025||||
OMG, beautifully described! (not sarcastic!)
wrs 12/3/2025||||
Ironically, years ago I fell into the habit of using too many non-interrupting em dashes because people thought semicolons were pretentious.

But introductory rhetorical questions? As sentence fragments? There I draw the line.

exmadscientist 12/3/2025|||
Also, for sheer delightful perversity, I ran the above comment through Copilot/ChatGPT and asked it to revise, and this is what I got. Note the text structuring and how it has changed! (And how my punctuation games are gone, but we expected that.)

>>>

For me, the issue is that they’re misused in this piece. Em dashes used as appositives carry the feel of interruption—like this—and should be employed sparingly. They create a jarring bump in the narrative’s flow, and that bump should only appear when you want it. Otherwise, appositives belong with commas (when they’re integral to the sentence) or parentheses (when they’re not). Clause breaks follow the same logic: the em dash is the strongest interruption. Colons convey a sense of arrival—you’ve been building up to this: and now it’s here. Semicolons are for those rare cases when two clauses can’t quite stand alone as separate sentences; most of the time, a full stop is cleaner. Like this. Which is why full stops should be your default splice when revising.

Sprinkling em dashes everywhere—even if each one is technically correct—feels like AI writing. The system has learned what they are, how they work, and when they fit, but it hasn’t learned how to revise for overall flow or density. The result is too many dashes, when the right number should be low, because they’re heavy emphasis—true interruptions.

(And yes, the quirky three-point bullet list with bolded openers and a punchy closer at the end is another hallmark of AI prose.)

But hey, I guess I fit the stereotype—I’m in Seattle, and I hate AI too.

NewsaHackO 12/3/2025||||
I think it's because it is difficult to actually add an em dash when writing with a keyboard (except I heard on Macs). So it's either they 1)memorized the em dash alt code, 2)had a keyboard shortcut for the key, or 3)are using the character map to insert it every time, all of which are a stretch for a random online post.
jasonjmcghee 12/3/2025||
You just type hyphen twice in many programs... Or on mobile you hold hyphen for a moment and choose em dash. I don't use it, but it's very easy to use.
jakubmazanec 12/3/2025||||
Related article posted here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46133941 explains it: "Within the A.I.’s training data, the em dash is more likely to appear in texts that have been marked as well-formed, high-quality prose. A.I. works by statistics. If this punctuation mark appears with increased frequency in high-quality writing, then one way to produce your own high-quality writing is to absolutely drench it with the punctuation mark in question. So now, no matter where it’s coming from or why, millions of people recognize the em dash as a sign of zero-effort, low-quality algorithmic slop."
mips_avatar 12/3/2025|||
So the funny thing is m dashes have always been a great trick to help your writing flow better. I guess gpt4o figured this out in RLHF and now it's everywhere
AshleyGrant 12/4/2025|||
I've been using em-dashes for at least two decades now.. At least I have in Word, where it's been autocorrecting regular dashes to em-dashes since at least Word 2007.
cosmicgadget 12/3/2025|||
Ironic? The author is working on an AI project.
npunt 12/3/2025||
The irony is that AI writing style is pretty off-putting, and the story itself was about people being put off by the author's AI project.
cosmicgadget 12/3/2025||
You mean Wanderfugl???
mips_avatar 12/3/2025||
An iconic name
almosthere 12/4/2025||
I think we should be honest and consistent about losing our jobs to AI. For decades we justified automation by saying things like: "Sure, the toothpaste tube machine replaced 30 workers, but someone will need to maintain and operate it." And whenever someone pointed out that one mechanic doesn't replace those 30 lost jobs, everyone went quiet.

Now we're using the same logic again: "Well, you just need to learn to use the AI before someone else does."

And if anyone doubts that the world can move on without the software engineer, remember that it moved on just fine after eliminating the toothpaste tube fillers. The world kept turning, just a little colder and more indifferent each time another role disappeared.

Maybe instead of pretending this time is different, we should focus on writing the best epitaph we can.

aiono 12/3/2025||
I think treating AI as the best possible field for everyone smart and capable is itself very narrow minded and short sighted. Some people just aren't interested in that field, what's so hard to accept it? World still needs experts in other fields even within computing.
jitbit 12/4/2025||
I don’t work at Microsoft and I have (almost) no friends there, but—

My team has relied on the Microsoft stack for over a decade (dotnet, GitHub Actions, VS Code, MS extensions), and I can say that the overall quality and “polish” of their releases has declined.

I try to help where I can—filing issues for outdated docs, contributing to dotnet/core, joining discussions about .NET 10 still not being available in Ubuntu APT feeds, reporting and helping resolve issues with MSSQL drivers and SqlClient on GitHub, etc.

But every time I interact with someone at Microsoft, I can’t help but read between the lines: they seem slightly demotivated by the company's shift toward an AI-first focus.

It's sad.

donny2018 12/4/2025||
I'm a former AI-hater and sceptic. I do B2B consultancy/development work for my clients.

I understand why people are irritated by this.

However, recently I tried the GitHub Copilot agent with VS Code using Claude Opus 4.5. It literally implemented, tested and fixed entire new features in minutes, that otherwise would have taken days or even weeks of routine repetitive work from me. All while mimicking style and patterns in my existing codebase which made me instantly understand exactly what it was doing. I found it to be an insane productivity boost and I can see how it might be affecting hiring processes in numerous industries, especially in software engineering space.

stego-tech 12/3/2025||
This isn’t just a Seattle thing, but I do think the outsized presence of specific employers there contributes to an outsized negativity around AI.

Look, good engineers just want to do good work. We want to use good tools to do good work, and I was an early proponent of using these tools in ways to help the business function better at PriorCo. But because I was on the wrong team (On-Prem), and because I didn’t use their chatbots constantly (I was already pitching agents before they were a defined thing, I just suck at vocabulary), I was ripe for being thrown out. That built a serious resentment towards the tooling for the actions of shitty humans.

I’m not alone in these feelings of resentment. There’s a lot of us, because instead of trusting engineers to do good work with good tools, a handful of rich fucks decided they knew technology better than the engineers building the fucking things.

lukev 12/3/2025|
Interesting that this talks about people in tech who hate AI; it's true, tech seems actually fairly divided with respect to AI sentiment.

You know who's NOT divided? Everyone outside the tech/management world. Antipathy towards AI is extremely widespread.

IAmBroom 12/3/2025|
And yet there are multiple posts ITT (obviously from tech-oriented people) proclaiming that large swaths of the non-tech world love AI.

An opinion I've personally never encountered in the wild.

lukev 12/3/2025||
I think they exist as a "market segment" (i.e, there are people out there who will use AI), but in terms of how people talk about it, sentiment is overwhelmingly negative in most circles. Especially folks in the arts and humanities.

The only non-technical people I know who are excited about AI, as a group, are administrator/manager/consultant types.

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